New Digital Service for Ireland

Watty,
When I had Chorus analog mmds, the beam was so narrow,the wind moving the aerial half an inch and the pictures were gone.
Would this not be even more of a problem with a digital signal?
I'd imagine, employing, someone to sit on the chimney, 24/7 during the wet and windy winter would be fairly costly.

Also on the line of sight thing, it's not as big an issue, with UHF, considering, UK Dtt is getting through to Wexford ( more reliably than Chorus analog mmds ) and I sure as heck can't see Wales from here.

mm

watty

Originally posted by Man
Watty,
When I had Chorus analog mmds, the beam was so narrow,the wind moving the aerial half an inch and the pictures were gone.
Would this not be even more of a problem with a digital signal?
I'd imagine, employing, someone to sit on the chimney, 24/7 during the wet and windy winter would be fairly costly.

Also on the line of sight thing, it's not as big an issue, with UHF, considering, UK Dtt is getting through to Wexford ( more reliably than Chorus analog mmds ) and I sure as heck can't see Wales from here.

mm

Again, the Chorus installs are often very bad.

My Analog experience.
They often have faulty connections on LNB. My "Dish" was like that too. I resoldered the socket which had been pulled loose on by the cable. I can point it through the trees and wiggle it back and forward about 4" at the tip and still have the same picture (terrible on all the channels except the Chours one)

A bigger dish means needs more accurate.
Further away means more accurate needed
3 times the frequency means 9 times sharper ""beam".
Sky Disk is 2 to 3 times bigger.
Sky is 3 times the frequency
Sky is 22,490 miles further away.

NorthDown

Watty
You say that there is no space on DTT here in NI - absolutely correct. However if the transmission mode is changed back to what we had in ITVd we could have space - change two of the BBC/CC muxs back to 64QAM will allow 6 channels per mux instead of 4. 2 changed muxes = 4 spare channels. As it 's all theoretical anyway i wouldn;t be too worried about how they might do it. Also in Belfast there's an RSL for a station - I think 62 or 58H which the ITC has the right to take away - it could be used for Divis DTT.

I suspect in reality that it will take as long for RTE to be on DTT here as it will ITV / C4 to be on Sky in the south. No doubt I'll be drawing my old age pension by then :-)

Richard

Originally posted by watty
DTT won't kill Sky.

Digital MMDS:
* Can be used in NI, in parallel to existing UK DTT

Digital MMDS is on its way for NI, isn't it? I think it was licenced last year. I think our dear friends Chorus got part or all of the NI licence.

That would solve the bandwidth issues that prevent ROI channels being more readily available in NI. But it does nothing about the rights issues.

I honest can't see the BBC playing ball with this, since it would be more competition to them. Of course BBC Worldwide would be interested in any deal which also made BBC TV more available in the South, but the BBC is a multi-headed hydra on these issues, and BBC Worldwide doesn't have a say on licence-fee funded channels in the UK.

I wouldn't be surprised if SDN provided some bandwidth (though it would involve installing extra equipment as currently AFAIK there are three versions of the SDN mux - one for Scotland, one for Wales, and one for England/NI) but I doubt that UTV would give up some space as they are certainly the most commercially minded on the NI broadcasters.

Is there any MUX space left on SDN now btw, or has the introduction of BBC Radios 1-4 taken the rest?

I wouldn't welcome going back to the old transmission methods - all MUXes are flawless here in Bangor, except for CH3/4 and SDN which have intermittant breakups.

I think that this a non-starter for NI, though the Republic really needs a DTT system. One similar to Freeview would be an idea, though anything without the UK channels would face severe hurdles in getting started.

hydelad

There's a lot of talk about which platform should be used in this thread. Let's be honest, it's irrelevant if the rights issue isn't sorted out. Perhaps a general compensatory arrangement between TV stations on both sides of the border would be the only practical way forward.

I hope that common sense prevails on this as it's a prime example of corporate greed getting the better of cultural need. Surely under public broadcasting legislation in both ROI and NI an arrangement should be enforceable?

watty

The unpalitable realities for our Goverment are:
* Any new digital system is dead without at least 4 UK channels.
* If it has UK channels it can't be free
* If it isn't free it is dead
* No-one will pay for the new transmitter network needed.

So the only realistic choice is to stop the RTE / Government "cable TV attidute" to Sky and MMDS.

What do I mean?
Digital MMDS *IS NOT* a cable system. It is in fact DTT. It should not be run as a cable operation with no free channels and only rental boxes. You should be able to buy a box and there should a minimu, of the Irish Analog TV free on it.

Sky ROI is NOT a cable system. Anyone can buy a box and point at any free satellite signal they want. Yet RTE in email and converstations I have seem confinced that it is like Cable. If you subscribe you have it and if you don't pay you have nothing. That is why they do not see a problem with their "Sky deal" that "rips off" the Irish Consuner.

How a Government Minister can talk about about a new DTT Freeview when Irish TV is PAY ONLY on both Terrestrial Digital and Satellite Digital is a mystery to me. It is insulting.


ALL FREE in Ireland by Satellite.
RAI1, 2, 3, and 4 other main Itallian are free in Ireland
At least 2 Polish
2 Greek
Hungarian
22+ German
3 French
BBC World TV
3 American news networks
Many more

And this is not counting the totally free, no card nned channels on Sky.

Obviously all the RTE execs. and Ministers are on either Cable or Sky World packages and don't care a fig for Rural Ireland with Pathetic Analog reception.

No everyone, despite what Donneybook thinks, that has Satellite wants PAY TV.

A Satellite or Chorus Digital MMDS susbscription could pay 1/4 or the annual petrol bill or buy 30 or 40 DVDs a year instead. It is a LOT more than a TV licence.

Originally posted by watty
* If it has UK channels it can't be free
* If it isn't free it is dead
* No-one will pay for the new transmitter network needed.

Not necessarily.
The government *might* pay for the transmission system upgrade, considering it is prepared to contribute to TG4.
Also, we have just had a large hike, in the licence fee.
considering the fact that RTÉ were originally going to set up a DTT service on their own but , with a frozen Licence fee for a number of years that was shelved, they were even going to pay for the tx upgrade and done tests on this.

The proportion of Sky's ROI sub that goes to the BBC is tiny, so a slight licence fee increase of a few euro might suffice for them to be on our version of freeview.
If the Rights issues were solved , I doubt, (considering the potential advertising revue, they could get) UTV or channel four would look for any fee, except maybe a nominal one relating to paying for certain additional rights.
mm