ITV Digital in ROI

LegacyUser

Know this has been dicussed in relation to users in Wicklow/wexford area but is there anyone using an on digital box in the Cavan area ?? - about 3 miles from the Fermanagh border (cloverill) with perfect reception of the analog services (BBC 1&2 Utv and C4)??

LegacyUser

Barry,
Rule of thumb,based on my experience down in Wexford.
If you have perfect analog reception where you are and its coming from the main Enniskillen transmitter at Brougher Mountain , then you should do well with an ITV digital box. You could look into improving your aerial- even though that wouldnt seem necessary from seeing good analog- it would make the difference with digital.
Provided there are no hills between you and the transmitter at Brougher , then you will be fine.
If your signal is coming from a relay fed from Brougher then you won't get ITV digital, unless it too is transmitting ITV digital and most aren't.
Obviously I'm only giving you pointers here and dont know the area.
key thing is wheres your signal coming from and is there anything in the way.
mm

LegacyUser

Your points are very good, generally. But I know a bit more about the area and may be able to help.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by madman:

If your signal is coming from a relay fed from Brougher then you won't get ITV digital, unless it too is transmitting ITV digital and most aren't.
</font>

No relays are - so in NI that means there are only three transmitters doing digital. Brougher Mountain is actually in Tyrone - just north of the Fermanagh 'border'. It is only 500 Watts, so reception may not be greatTry and find out the postcode of a house on the nearest part of NI to you then you could try it in the postcode database here:

http://www.dtg.org.uk/retailer/coverage.html

Finding out a postcode isn't too hard - I tried the royal mail site (www.royalmail.co.uk) and I got the Post Office in Kilturk (which shouldn't be too far from the border, but I don't actually know) which is BT92 6FH

Putting that into the website above gives:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Digital Terrestrial Television
Predicted Reception for Post Code BT92 6FH

Unfortunately BT92 6FH is not covered by any of the active or planned transmitters at this time. At this stage we are unable to provide a date for transmissions.

Predictions have been deliberately set cautiously to avoid disappointment and will be revised in the light of experience.

</font>

The only thing you can do is borrow a box (if you can) and try it out.



[This message has been edited by Richard (edited 20-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

[This message has been edited by Richard (edited 20-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

on a further note.
when I rang the uk number to switch on my card(0044870 600 9696), the very nice lady on the other end told me that they do have customers in ROI on the southern side of the irish border.
Only ever heard of Brougher mountain in terms of it being called "Enniskillen" down south- so thanks for the Geography lesson.
Your suggestion to borrow an itv box is the best way to go ,heck I'm curious enough to bring mine up and try it.
btw the reason I answered this query was to be encouraging about it...
I have a sneaking suspicion that it might work, thats if by being cautious about their "predicted service area" they dont take into account, a better aerial, masthead amp etc.
mm

LegacyUser

Cheers richard yeah kilturk which is in newtownbutler is pretty close about 6 miles -tried the postcode on the ITV postcode search with the response

Channel details for BT 92 6FH
Based on data of 23/07/01

The coverage in this area is expected to be uncertain and we are not able to give details of channels which will be received. ITV Digital coverage may be available in this area. Please look out for updates on our website at www.itv-digital.co.uk, or call 0808 100 0101 for further details.

Suppose i'll give em a call see what they advise - sure a local shop will give us one on loan - come to think of it do'nt think i've seen em in the local shops uo noth!! - keep ya posted...

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Barryo:
sure a local shop will give us one on loan
</font>

Try Argos and see if their 16-day money back guarentee applies.

Argos
Unit 26, Erneside Shopping Centre, The Point
Enniskillen
Opening Times

Monday
9am - 5:30pm

Tuesday
9am - 5:30pm

Wednesday
9am - 5:30pm

Thursday
9am - 9pm

Friday
9am - 9pm

Saturday
9am - 5:30pm

Sunday
1:30pm - 5:30pm



As for the location of Brougher mountain - I though it was in Fermanagh too until I saw it on a map once.

LegacyUser

Great idea richard - just checked out the Argos

*********************************************
Please note that this product is excluded from the Argos 16-Day Money Back Guarantee. This does not affect your statutory rights.
*********************************************

Have e-mailed Argos cust service to see if theres anything they can do under circumstance or if my 'statutory rights' will cover me for no reception.
I'll dropu up on saturday if i get the go ahead - keep ya posted...

LegacyUser

Hi. According to a map I downloaded off a web-site some time ago (I can't remember which one!), the predicted DTTV reception from Brougher Mountain extends as far south as about Cavan town. If you live in this area there should be no problem in receiving it, as long as you use a decent aerial and there isn't a little hill close-by, etc!

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Marconi:
Hi. According to a map I downloaded off a web-site some time ago (I can't remember which one!), the predicted DTTV reception from Brougher Mountain extends as far south as about Cavan town.</font>

There is a clickable map at:

http://www.wolfbane.com/articles/ukdcmap.htm

But it seems to over-exaggerate the coverage. And remember you'll have the usuall problems that people have with DTT.

LegacyUser

The map I have is more dtailed - it shows that DTT coverage is only available in a small area roughly bounded by Killashandra, Belturbet, Cootehill and Cavan Town. Going east and west of this area the signals disappear due to intervening hills. Also, further south reception is unreliable due to weak signals.
Generally speaking, if you can get good noise-free analogue pictures without an aerial amp, then you'll most likely be able to receive DTTV. Incidentally, Divis doesn't appear to make it south of the border!

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Marconi:
The map I have is more </font>

You wouldn't be able to rememebr where you got it? Or could you e-mail it to me or post it on a website?

Richard

[This message has been edited by Richard (edited 21-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

[This message has been edited by Richard (edited 21-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

Cheers marconi
Just checked the area mentioned seems i'm smack bang in the middle...just north of Butlersbridge just off the N54 - so it's lookin good- still no word from Argos about returnin the STB if there's probs - gonna see if i can get a loan box...
Any further advice much appreciated
Cheers again

LegacyUser

If its any help Barryo, the ondigital box I got was in Dixsons- at the time they said they would take it back with a refund of the £99stg ( mid may )I paid if it didn't work- It did so there was no problem.
are they still doing pre-paid boxes?, I know that they went up 20/30 quid or so since then. If you ring them they should tell you the same as they told me.
Best of luck
mm

LegacyUser

Can DTT work with a masthead amp?
Can it work with distribution amps?
How much of a signal is needed for DTT? I reckon my signal from Brougher would be about 50db with masthead amp (possibly more with a good Hirschmann aerial) which is pretty poor.
As for Argos, they only sell you the prepaid subscription. You do not own the DTTbox but have it on loan. I read this in another forum from someone who bought/leased a prepaid box from Argos. Argos told him to take up the matter with ITVdigital as it was their box.

---

WILL D

bkehoe

madman, could you give me some info on your setup e.g. antenna, any amps, e.t.c that you're using. I've worked out that from my location Presely and Blaen-Plwyf should be reachable from my location.

Thanks,
Brendan

LegacyUser

Richard, sorry but the map I have is just a print-out, so I couldn't email it to you! I think I may have got it from ntl - their UK site contains some technical info of a commercial nature as ntl maintains about half of the TV transmitters in GB and NI. If I find it again, I'll let you know!

LegacyUser

Firstly,Brendan,
I am using a Triax group B aerial pointed to Presely with a triax 25 db gain mast head amp. You can use a supreme B amplifier made by a crowd aptly named fringe which has a 28db gain.Both of these need a power unit ( either 12/24 amps) plugged in some where.

For Blaenplyf You will need a long group A aerial although it will come in on a grid but not as strong.
If Presely is strong in your area , you might need only a grid for that, instead of the group B above.
I tried a grid for Blaenplyf and got , the type of analog picture that most people (who wouldn't be as mad as me!) would be happy with. However it was only with the group A that signal was strong enough for Digital- only got some channels- verdict on that experiment-better off on Presely, and better off with the group B..
Being half mad as I am , I have tried the box in a few houses with varying reception and aerial types pointed to Presely. As I've said earlier, It worked fine with tiny group B's on ground higher than me.All had mast head amps.
I am not a Techie , when it comes to this and the beauty of ondigital/itvdigital boxes is that they are literally "plug in and play " and quite light so Ripe for this sort of experimenting.

Will D, you are right, the Box I got is technically a loan box owned by ITV digital and the £99stg that I paid is just a sub.
This explains why argos dont offer money back.
However,What I was told both in Dixons and again at the start from the then ondigital customer care lady, was that if I couldnt get a signal they would refund the £99stg and I would have to return the box .
Regarding reception:I do not have a meter , so I couldnt tell you how many db's the signal is,that, we get down here from Presely- but i'd imagine its high.
From my trial and error experiments , If Brougher is very strong without a mast head amp in Cavan town or cloverhill , then with the right aerial and masthead amp, digital will work.You sound like you know your stuff and whats needed.
I've only ever been in Cavan once and it wasn't to watch telly, so I just cant say, if it will work but it should,especially with Marconi's news above- and remember while its all sea between me and presely , it is 60-80 miles away and I have most Itv digital channels,seven days out of ten-Cavan appears to be in the "Footprint" of Brougher so what would it be like there.....?,
Just my twopenceworth and hope it helps.
mm

LegacyUser

whoops, sorry for the long winded replies!!!
mm

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by madman:

Regarding reception:I do not have a meter , so I couldnt tell you how many db's the signal is,that, we get down here from Presely- but i'd imagine its high.</font>

There is a signal strength meter in the OnDigital box - MENU 7 1 Green and type in the number of the MUX you want to check the singal strenth of.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Richard:
And remember you'll have the usuall problems that people have with DTT.</font>

Hi Richard,

Just to continue the discussion on DTT: what usual problems are you referring to? We are talking about DTT reception in fringe areas that the broadcasters never intented to serve, so any reception in ROI is a major bonus. I am amazed that people like madman are getting such good reception in North Wexford from a low power Tx 70-80kms away.

When Irish DTT comes on air a lot of this fringe UK reception will of course be wiped out but since Irish DTT will carry UK (NI) stations then I presume this won't be a big issue (unless of course you are addicted to S4C?).

---

Looking for the Digital future

http://www.geocities.com/gerryh123

bkehoe

Hi madman,
What do you think of these antennas; http://www.televes.es/ingles/producto/antenas/uhfpro.htm

I can get the 1045 for UK£31, and the 1046 for £51. I think the 1046 would be best due to extra gain, e.t.c. but was wondering in general if those would suit, and if there were better ones.

Would a Televés 26db amp (group W) for UK£17 (12.60 for power supply)be a good choice to go with it?

Also, where in Wexford do you live (out of interest)?

Thanks

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cableskeptic:
Hi Richard,

Just to continue the discussion on DTT: what usual problems are you referring to?

</font>

Sometimes you can get bad reception in a supposedly good area because your aerial isn't set up right. Also, sometimes things like passing cars an lightswitches can affect your recpetion. Having, said that, it isn't too bad.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
When Irish DTT comes on air a lot of this fringe UK reception will of course be wiped out but since Irish DTT will carry UK (NI) stations then I presume this won't be a big issue (unless of course you are addicted to S4C?).
</font>

But if this means there is co-channel interference won't this destory the signal totally?

LegacyUser

reply to Richard:

This problems you mention are related to UK DTT. The Irish DTT system will be much better than the UK version (due to higher powers and using the DVB-T 8k system which is mandated by the ODTR). Which should mean less interference (from impulse noise generated by electrical switches, cars etc.) and no messing around with external aerials for the majority of people.

Yes I do mean complete wipe out of UK DTT signals.

LegacyUser

Hi Richard,
such is the popularity of the ondigital box around here , one of my neighbours has it today- not going to be impressed when I go over and get it back in about an hour , but I want to have it here to check the signal on my aerial - will post when I've checked..
My aerial guy has checked the analog presely, the signals are coming in at around 100 db and at that they are crystal.

Brendan I'm near Coolgreaney about 5 miles from the coast-6 miles Gorey,5mls Arklow- where are you??

I don't know enough sorry about the technical stuff to be able to tell you about those televes aerials - Richard will know ( I feel terrible talking of people I dont know etc... , such is the nature of the web)
They are wideband though and something tells me that if you are trying to bring in a group B transmitter like presely , although wideband will do it you'd be better off with the group B aerial.
Cableskeptic can you be of any help there?
.
mm

bkehoe

I'm more to the South, basically in the middle of the Enniscorthy-Wexford-NewRoss triangle. After a few hours of looking at OS maps, and finding the location of the transmitters, I've determined that all I have to get over is trees.

I was thinking of wideband cause, if for some reason it wouldn't work, the stuff would be able to work with the deflector in Dunmore East.

LegacyUser

Firstly Richard,
Gosh you'll have me doing a degree course in this!
The signal meter is showing a green bar on a scale from 1 to just above 4
checked channel numbers 39,42,45,- these all just nudging 3
channel 49 registered about 2.75 on that scale and channel 51 was the weakest at about halfway between the 2 and the three.

The box is receiving 52 channels as follows:
in the order, they are on the channel list
numbers 1-14 are,bbc1wales,bbc2,wales,itv1(htvwales),channel 5,itv2,bbc choice, channel 4,teletext,bbc text,bbc news24,bbc parliment,bbc knowledge,fourtext.
no number 15
itv text+ -16 , s4c-18 ,
20-33 are:
ITV Sport,sky sports 1, sky sports 2,sky sports 3, sky movie max, sky premier,,sky one,cartoon network,carlton cinema,Brittish Eurosport,Granada plus,Breeze men and mtrs,UK Gold , MTV ,
no number 34
35-40 are: Taste cfn,Discovery(k+W),play uk,,uk style, Nicolodeon/paramount.
there is no number 40
41-48 are: film four, e4, uk horizons, travel shop,two way tv, wellbeing,ITN
there is no ITN
50-55 are the itv select channels which are like sky box office - they are £1.99 stg for a movie up to 6pm and £2.99 after that and yes you can order over the phone by credit card from ROI
channel 56 is Adults only i
Itv digital info ch 88
adult channel 90
itv sport select 98
itv sport plus 99
They are charging £6.99 stg for tonights Blackburn Rovers V Man UTD Game which is a bit steep.
its alot of channels! For the £99 stg I picked the following six of their primary channels E4,MTV,Paramount,Brittish Eurosport,Sky one,Granada plus
dont give out about my choices, I was that darn excited on the first day that those were the ones I picked and havent bothered to change

Bkehoe
are you on high ground, I would guess that you are if you're around Rathnure or Clonroche or somewhere like that- could be hills between you and the coast etc where you are?
You are further inland than me but probably slightly nearer to Presely-I can see the coast from the top of the mast- if you can see the coast when you get above those trees you're in business!
crucially another basic point , is there anybody nearby receiving tv directly from wales and not from a deflector.

Cable skeptic ,Richard ,and yourself are more than welcome to have a look at this.
regards
mm
Btw Cableskeptic while I've noticed while I did this check that one of the muxes from presely is on channel 51
where I live , if I switch the aerial roun to vertical and point further north I get a perfect bbc 1 from the arfon relay in wales (plus the others from there)
This has an erp of 3.5 kw - forgive my ignorance on this subject but why doesnt it interfere with the presely mux? in the same way as Cairn hill interferes with presely over in Arklow?

bkehoe

No, I can't see the coast from here, but I can see it from Carrickbyrne hill, and the land is mostly flat (other than the Forth Mountain) to it; from my hopefully accurate analysis of the direction to Presley, the antenna would be pointing slightly to the north side of the hill, where there are some trees, e.t.c., but not as far north as the small hill a mile south of Adamstown. According to the maps, I'm at an altitude of 60M here, with the path skimming to the north of the Forth Mountain, and emerging to the sea over the Rosslare golf club. If I wanted to, I should be able to get a signal from Blaen-Plwyf, though I haven't calculated that out as much as I've been doing Presely.

I have equipment to make a mast (stuff I salvaged from a huge '1960s' mast from a relatives farm (around 100M high in the old days, but only around 25M usable, as it came down in a storm in the 80s, and much of it got bent, e.tc.

A friend who lives arounf 1.5miles to the North-East, near Ballagh, gets chans from the UK, fairly clear and doesn't have any mast; just an antenna on the side of his bungalow. Most others around here use Dunmore East (they went around a few years ago installing it in ppls homes, and charging them for it yearly).

I did once try a small uhf antenna from inside the house through some glass and a tree outside the window with no amp, pointed in the general direction of Wales, and did get a snowey pic on some of the BBC chans a year ago, though I never really bothered any more as Sky were supposed to be bringing on the BBC stuff, e.t.c.

Hmm, long reply, probably worthless stuff mainly, hehe.

BTW, I live around a mile from Raheen, and 2 miles from Old Ross (near the N25).

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by bkehoe (edited 22-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

Ya Bkehoe , definitely worth trying , especially if you're handy at it, an aerial installer in Ross might have a grid you could try with your mast first b4 you buy anything and if you're getting good stuff in from that , it will be better with the proper gear.
I presume when you got some bbc's the last time you weren't using any amp - thats a good sign!
post how you get on- hope it works!
mm

LegacyUser

Brendan, b4 i forget,
when you say you have a path to the coast between those hills , in terms of swinging an aerial how wide is it? ie can you move it more than a couple of feet in that gap b4 hitting a hill?
reason I as is that when we were tesing here - got loads of different transmitters in.
Also to the west and north of here , its very hilly , some people getting great presely up there (through gaps in the hills , where you would only see the coast with binoculars) while just half a mile down the road nothing.
mm