Webspace, content, domain name, etc.

dahamsta · 15-05-2001 5:12pm #1

No doubt there'll be plenty of offers, but since no-one has stepped up to the plate yet, I might as well be the first. ieWebs would be delighted to provide a domain name[1]; and DNS, web and email service for the "Campaign For $Whatever" if and when it's required, free of charge. I would also be delighted to provide content for the website, and can help with scripting if required.

adam

[1] .org for preference, .ie's are a pain in the **** and will require documentation.

Bard · 15-05-2001 5:18pm

The name that is generating most support at the moment is Campaign for Unmetered and Broadband Internet Communications... or CUBIC (the acronym being a bit catchier and journalist-friendly).

I probably have hosting, etc. sorted out - boards.ie taking care of the message board side of things, and I myself sorting out the main site.

Still, dahamsta, - your offer is well appreciated and I may yet take you up on it depending on how certain other things go.

Cheers,

Bard

"If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished."

dahamsta · 15-05-2001 5:26pm

What, you can't even say ar5e now? Father Jack would turn in his Dreamy Sleepy Nighty Snoozy Snooze.

Anyway, no bovver. cubic.org is out though, it's registered. cubic.ie is gone too. You could set it up as a canonical I guess.

LegacyUser · 15-05-2001 5:33pm

Originally posted by Bard:
The name that is generating most support at the moment is Campaign for Unmetered and Broadband Internet Communications... or CUBIC (the acronym being a bit catchier and journalist-friendly).

Well what's generating most support *from yourself* is CUBIC - the acronym sounds good but imho the full name is too much of a mouthful. I liked CUBA as an alternative - Campaign for Unmetered & Broadband Access.

LegacyUser · 16-05-2001 1:17pm

Originally posted by Bard:
The name that is generating most support at the moment is Campaign for Unmetered and Broadband Internet Communications... or CUBIC (the acronym being a bit catchier and journalist-friendly).

Most of the technology journalists are clueless and they are not the market you want to reach. The Ireland Offline is a far better suggestion as it can be remembered even by non-techies. Cubic does not have the resonance that would make it stick from a marketing point of view. "Ireland Offline" sums up the situation well. The .com rather than .org is essential as people still intuitively add a .com ending.

Get a banner advert/button advert sorted out quickly so that it can be put on every Irish webpage. I'll put it on HackWatch and on WhoisIreland etc. Shiela McDonald may also be worth contacting for inclusion on ENN.

Regards...jmcc

Bard · 16-05-2001 2:17pm

Originally posted by jmcc:
Most of the technology journalists are clueless and they are not the market you want to reach. The Ireland Offline is a far better suggestion as it can be remembered even by non-techies.

Most of the GOOD technology journalists are not clueless. Ireland Offline as a name would have potential legal issues (possibly damaging to Ireland Online's brand), doesn't say what we're about, and basically seems like a p|ss-take on IOL when we're about so much more than that. CUBIC does not have these problems.

Cubic does not have the resonance that would make it stick from a marketing point of view.

I disagree. It's a similar name to and sticks in the memory just as well as IBEC, SIPTU, and any other pronouncable acronym I can think of. PLUS it actually says what we're about.

Bard

"If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished."

Bard · 16-05-2001 2:20pm

Originally posted by hmmm:
Well what's generating most support *from yourself* is CUBIC

No. There have been a lot of people besides myself (including Howard Brittain, by the way and most of the committee members who have responded on the matter) who supported that name.

Ireland Offline, as a name is, I believe, flawed for the reasons I've already mentioned.

Bard

"If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished."

LegacyUser · 16-05-2001 3:02pm

Originally posted by Bard:
No. There have been a lot of people besides myself (including Howard Brittain, by the way and most of the committee members who have responded on the matter) who supported that name.

I'm getting irritated by committee this and committee that. Go read the deja posts from 1999 where you'll see what killed the last attempt to set the IUGI up was peoples feelings of being 'excluded' and a perception of power grab going on. The more open you are about your debates, and the less you try to withdraw into a clique when you disagree with something the better the chances of success.

dahamsta · 16-05-2001 3:08pm

I was informed this morning by a pretty reliable source that because of the recent developments in the local loop unbundling process, many of the OLO's are now seriously worried that the process will be dragged out for much longer than expected, maybe a year, maybe more. To that end, I'm posting the following:

The name is important, but the issues are more important. Consensus doesn't work on these issues, they drag out the process and detract from the important work of a group. I would suggest someone set up and schedule a vote on the naming issue as soon as possible. The vote can be set up temporarily on the current website.

The voting process can be used to decide on how to manage decision making in future, but the whole process needs to be fast-tracked. If discussion of this kind of topic continues the group will fragment, turn into another useless goddamned Irish commiteeeee, and Eircom will have won.

I have more suggestions, but I'll leave it at that for the moment. One step at a time. But *quickly* - the lack of LLU in Ireland is costing us all money remember.

adam

Bard · 16-05-2001 4:07pm

Originally posted by hmmm:
I'm getting irritated by committee this and committee that. Go read the deja posts from 1999 where you'll see what killed the last attempt to set the IUGI up was peoples feelings of being 'excluded' and a perception of power grab going on. The more open you are about your debates, and the less you try to withdraw into a clique when you disagree with something the better the chances of success.

I read those quotes already thank you very much. I am not saying that it's the commitee's choice- you pointed out that CUBIC was only the most popular name according to ME. I'm pointing out that it's not just me, it's the committee at large who supported the name.

Bard

"If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished."

LegacyUser · 16-05-2001 5:01pm

Originally posted by Bard:
I am not saying that it's the commitee's choice- you pointed out that CUBIC was only the most popular name according to ME.

At 1.01pm on ie.comp today you said something quite different in response to Howard's announcement that 'Ireland Offline' had been chosen.

"As all present at the kick-off meeting decided, it's up to the
committee to decide on certain issues, the name being one of them. I
believe we should have a a vote within the committee, whether that
requires a committee meeting or not."

Originally posted by Bard:
I'm pointing out that it's not just me, it's the committee at large who supported the name.

And the interim committee is what, eight people? There are 37 formally interested parties, 17 of which attended Sunday's meeting. I presume a majority of those 37 preferred 'Ireland Offline' - if that's the case, that is what is called democracy.

LegacyUser · 16-05-2001 7:42pm

Originally posted by Bard:
I disagree. It's a similar name to and sticks in the memory just as well as IBEC, SIPTU, and any other pronouncable acronym I can think of. PLUS it actually says what we're about.

You may disagree with me but I know a hell of a lot more about branding and getting things written about (probably moreso than most of the venture members combined). IBEC and SIPTU have massive advertising budgets and significant numbers as members - the "Ireland Offline" venture does not. This is not a flame but you really don't have much experience in this field and by going with CUBIC, the venture will completely screw up any chance of getting a decent hearing.

I could probably count the number of clueful technology journalists on the fingers of one hand. Most tjs are mere press release recyclers and are completely ignorant of technological issues. The tj d1ckheads are irrelevant - you have got to get to the editors and the real journalists. These people are your targets - the venture has to get wider coverage so that it will not be ratholed at the end of some pseudo-technology page that nobody reads (eg Irish Times ). This has to have the capability of getting to the public and to get to the public you have to get it into the public's view.

Cubic does not stick in the mind and is totally irrelvant. Acronyms may sound great but most people don't seem to remember what they stand for if more than three words are involved. It is not journalist friendly, apart from the fact that most of the tjs get paid by the word so they will use the full term as many times as they can get away with. More importantly it is not user friendly.

Ireland Offline says a lot in two words and it is not a p1sstake of IOL. There will be some collateral damage on IOL's products, one of which was Surf NoLimits. However I don't think that IOL has a monopoly on Ireland. It is also a bloody good headline for articles. It also fits well into a banner advert campaign.

The venture will also be working against the PR departments of Eircom and Esat. Eircom has one of the better departments so you may find it difficult to get serious coverage in certain publications. It would be very easy for any PR type to paint the venture as a bunch of disaffected loudmouth self-important kooks and thus guarantee that it will have minimal impact. Right now, I am worried that it is heading the way of IUGI.

Regards...jmcc

Bard · 16-05-2001 8:49pm

Mr. McCormack- to be honest, right now- given Howard's announcement that he's stepping down as chairman, and given the number of utterly pointless arguments that are going on, I'd be worried that it's going to go that way myself.

Those quotes above from davdela certainly are from me. Nobody can have their facts straight all the time and I apologise for getting things wrong in that case. However, jmcc- I'd ask you not to presume what my level of knowledge is in certain areas or what you have "a hell of a lot more knowledge" than me on as it's impossible for you to know.

I still say that the name "Ireland Offline" is an undesirable one. Regardless, I'll still be giving the organisation my full support, no matter what it's called... I've said that on many occasions.

Bard

"If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished."

dahamsta · 16-05-2001 10:25pm

I'm still all for "Ireland Offline" anyway, but to change the subject completely, why did this Howard fella resign? Did Eircom get to someone already?

Bard · 16-05-2001 11:08pm

Originally posted by dahamsta:
I'm still all for "Ireland Offline" anyway, but to change the subject completely, why did this Howard fella resign? Did Eircom get to someone already?

Howard was the chairman of the first meeting and the most likely candidate to be the overall "official" chairman of the organisation. I'm sure he can speak for himself, but basically he seems to believe that certain people from the chosen committee don't have enough belief in his integrity and honesty. He believes that some think he "rigged" the vote for a name. This is ridiculous, and nothing could be further from the truth. He's been informed of this and asked to reverse his decision. Yet still he remains single minded about his decision and his intention to leave, and there doesn't seem to be any convincing him otherwise.

This only serves to feed peoples skepticisms and fears, including my own, that the whole thing may collapse as the effort of 2 years ago did. I certainly hope that doesn't happen. The next couple of days will tell a lot...

Bard

"If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished."

Stephen · 16-05-2001 11:11pm

I like the "Ireland Offline" name.

dahamsta · 16-05-2001 11:36pm

Thanks Bard.

LegacyUser · 16-05-2001 11:42pm

Would "Offline Ireland" be acceptable as it still has the words Ireland and Offline in it that generated so much response yet it is a little more removed from the Esat linkage of Ireland online.

Perhaps if we stopped fearing so much - "This only serves to feed peoples skepticisms and fears, including my own, "

we could move on or else it will be the load of pants everyone is SCARED about!!! Whats the fear for ? Come on!

LegacyUser · 17-05-2001 8:00am

Originally posted by Bard:
However, jmcc- I'd ask you not to presume what my level of knowledge is in certain areas or what you have "a hell of a lot more knowledge" than me on as it's impossible for you to know.

I still say that the name "Ireland Offline" is an undesirable one. Regardless, I'll still be giving the organisation my full support, no matter what it's called... I've said that on many occasions.

It is based on years of publishing and journalism. If the brand is not right then it does not matter how good the product is, it will only be a niche product and sell slowly. As far as I know Niall, you don't have that kind of experience in branding/publishing because your main work for the last n years has been web/programming orientated.

This venture has to be a mass market operation in that it has to be as simple as possible for the people to remember. The best method for that is not to use an acronym but a combination of a few words that can easily be remembered even by non-techies. "Ireland Offline", imperfect though it is in some eyes, is about the best solution.

This venture has to get moving and having a lot of good people involved is a start. But that momentum built up over the past few weeks will stall if the whole thing becomes about people rather than the issue. Howard resigning is a loss but the venture has to continue regardless. This is too important an issue for personal grandstanding.

Regards...jmcc

Bard · 17-05-2001 9:09am

Originally posted by jmcc:
It is based on years of publishing and journalism. If the brand is not right then it does not matter how good the product is, it will only be a niche product and sell slowly. As far as I know Niall, you don't have that kind of experience in branding/publishing because your main work for the last n years has been web/programming orientated.

Again, I'd ask you not to assume. Just because the main thrust of my work in the past - say - 5 years has been on the web, that doesn't mean I don't have the necessary experience in other fields to back up my words. I have worked in various areas (including Journalism) and besides, writing GOOD web sites requires a strong understanding of marketing and branding. Regardless, whether you know more than me about a certain field is irrelevant to the general topic here.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but still disagree with the chosen name for it ("IrelandOffline")... *shrug*... my perogative, that... I just have to live with it.

Yes, perhaps "Offline Ireland" would be better - it would certainly have less potential for legal "issues" arising at least.

Bard

"If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished."

[This message has been edited by Bard (edited 17-05-2001).]

dahamsta · 17-05-2001 12:26pm

Handbags at dawn...

I'd like to echo JMCC's comment about getting the venture moving. Ignore semantics and leave the pi$$ing matches for somewhere else. The process has stalled already on something as silly as the name. The chairman has already resigned for what strikes me as girly political infighting. This shouldn't be about names and politics, it should be about getting the local loop unbundled and getting broadband into people's houses.

Eircom are winning...

Webspace, content, domain name, etc.

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