Dublin WAN

LegacyUser · 02-06-2001 4:06pm #1

Hi there,
Me and a couple of lads were thinking of setting up a WAN in the North Dublin area, since our booting off SNL is imminent

We want to play multiplayer games and surf the web taking it in turns to host an internet connection and split the costs accordingly. If we cant have broadband ( which i think wont be with us for another year at least, then maybe we could settle for this. Just wondering is anyone else doing this as it seems the only alternative for now. Any tips welcome.
thanks
Matfin

LegacyUser · 02-06-2001 5:39pm

lol
move this to the humour boards

LegacyUser · 02-06-2001 5:44pm

WOW, that sounds great. The main reason I am online for hours unend, is because of them addictive online games !!!

I'm wondering, how are you going to hook up the computers together ?

www.EFtraining.com

http://www.thealexandriaclan.barrysworld.net

dahamsta · 02-06-2001 8:37pm

I'm wondering, how are you going to hook up the computers together ?

WAN stands for Wireless Area Network. So you figure out if you've got line-of-sight with someone on the WAN, stick a dish on the side of your house if you do, lead some cabling down to your rig, plug it into the card you installed in the rig, and away you go. As I've said before though, your problem comes with bandwidth. Connection sharing is all well and good on a nice fat pipe - a DSL connection even - but on 56k? You gotta be kidding me.

adam

[This message has been edited by dahamsta (edited 02-06-2001).]

LegacyUser · 02-06-2001 9:19pm

I agree that it would seem far fetched to share a 56k connection over a WAN, but in the light of the circumstances we have little else in choice. It would be very slow over a wan to share 56k but it would be suitable for IRC and basic web browsing (minus the multimedia things). Tis a nice idea still to keep in touch and have some sort of solution. Even better would be if one of us could get xDSL and that would make it feasible, but then there would be no point in a wan. As long as the internet connection is reliable and free, thats fine by me. Flatrate is the main reason i want DSL, and then theres the speed. In reality, we wont see dsl for the next 8 months at least, so flatrate for surfing and WAN link for online gaming, pending latency and cost of equipment. Ive read others who have done this, and they say latency isnt to bad at all.

Matfin

dahamsta · 03-06-2001 12:20am

I'm not knocking WAN's per se, just the idea of using them for Internet connection sharing. Even with ISDN, I can see IM flames starting almost immediately, connections severed and friends lost.

That said, I'd actually go against your suggestion that having xDSL would negate the need for a WAN. If xDSL came in, it would be ideal for a WAN - one guy signs up and everyone contributes to the fund. However you have to remember the cost of the WAN equipment, which could negate any cost savings on connections.

A WAN for fun though, that's a different story. I'm not into gaming, but I used to be into CB radio and I like the idea of an ever growing private, non-profit WAN. And it's not that complicated to set up, so there's nothing stopping people having a go.

Anyone in Cork up for it?

adam

LegacyUser · 05-06-2001 12:06pm

Hi,

It's a good idea, I'm not sure what the licencing laws are ......but it could be done,

Looks like cards available from $300 and kits from $945.

You would need to buy in blocks of 10 to make cost savings.....

I'd like to at least see if there would be enough interest for it in the Raheen/Limerick area.....

I'll try and find out if these kits/cards are licence-free in the EU ......

LegacyUser · 05-06-2001 12:08pm

I forgot to include the URL :

http://www.techsplanet.com/wlan/kits.htm

http://www.techsplanet.com/wlan/cards.htm

Email me at daveharlowe@hotmail.com if you are interested.....

LegacyUser · 05-06-2001 2:16pm

Right so everyone start buying lottery tickets

LegacyUser · 05-06-2001 3:24pm

Hi all,
We wouldn't need to connect to the internet at first (Except via the SNL 56k line that some of us still have).

Anyway,
There are cheaper options : IE Compaq do a version for $199 (that's 186 irish pounds)
Along with a cheap minidish(~UK£10), and 15 pounds worth of cable, it would still be cheaper than IOL Gold :-)

Before buying the lotto tickets :-) have a look at :

http://www.networkcomputing.com/1113/1113f2full.html

regards,
Dave

astrofool · 05-06-2001 3:56pm

sigh, WAN stands for WIDE area network, as opposed to LAN, Local area network

setting up a WAN is not difficult, UCD have a WAN network of 10 MB/s that goes into town, just a case of getting the correct cabling laid, and boosting the signal every couple of miles. Just a high quality phone network really

dahamsta · 05-06-2001 5:14pm

Oops, sorry, that's not the first time I've done that. But you could call it a Wireless Area Network if you were non-conformist...

BTW, Bard, could this thread be moved/redirected into tech?

adam

LegacyUser · 05-06-2001 6:08pm

Thank you Dave Harlowe for that info you gave me. You have made things alot easier for me now and Im sure others out there

I was looking at some sites and alot of the items seemed very expensive. good work man

Ill certainly look into it.

Excellent

LegacyUser · 05-06-2001 7:50pm

There was a project for this that never really got off the ground called WAN-Dublin.

Read the archives here

At the time, there were relatively few interested and consequently, people were too widely spaced appart for the limited range of the divices while staying within the "unlicenced" range of these divices.

It would take, oh, about 1000 users in Dublin for this to take off.

I would suggest reading through the archives carefully before embarking on the project.

LegacyUser · 05-06-2001 10:02pm

Hi,

Thanks for the links, plus the comments....
Seems that it may be more expensive than I thought, Prices may have come down since the emails were written.

looks like this sort of project can only work if it's organised in a locality rather than on the internet city wide....

Anyway, I'll keep pushing here in Raheen, Limerick....

regards,
Dave

bkehoe · 11-06-2001 11:29pm

I have a wireless link with a friend 10km away.

It's quite simple actually, and each setup only costs around IR£300 including antennas and cable.

Of course if you want more than 2 people in a LOS, it is a bit more expensive, as a base station(s) are needed, which would be outfitted with a bidirectional antenna, which look exactly the same as those on small mobile phone stations.

With the proper antenna, speeds of 11Mbit should work up to 3-5km from base station, or 5 - 6km from user - user (higher gain total), and with lower speeds documented from user-user LOS of up to 25km.

You basically get a normal wireless network card (Lucent Wavelan, or clones i.e. Elsa Airlancer), pigtail adapter (to connect antenna cable into small external antenna cable on card), cable (fairly expensive stuff), and the antenna (for a user antenna, they're the exact same as Chorus uses for MMDS services). No boosters or anything required.

I'm planning on setting up a web page documenting my experience with the network, and since it's actual power output doesn't excede rated spec, afaik there is no reason for it to be any more illegal (please correct if anyone has other details) than using the 'range extender' antennas the card makers produce.

Brendan

LegacyUser · 12-06-2001 3:14pm

Why not start up a small company? and Advertise it? If enough people saw it you might get a good few punters (theres a lot of IT heads in Dublin)

what I want to know is. If enough people on the WAN had a net connection, could you all access them together? and have the higher bandwidth for surfing and d/l??

but games may get doggy with a lot of people on the network. It would be a good Idea though.

Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

yellum · 19-06-2001 8:01pm

Originally posted by dahamsta:

... I like the idea of an ever growing private, non-profit WAN. And it's not that complicated to set up, so there's nothing stopping people having a go.

Anyone in Cork up for it?

adam

Myself and a few others would I'd say. Loads of factors involved in getting it to work though.

yellum · 19-06-2001 8:03pm

Originally posted by bkehoe:

I'm planning on setting up a web page documenting my experience with the network

Brendan

Please post a link when you have it done. Thanks.

LegacyUser · 29-07-2001 1:09pm

it's been over a month now, did anyone try anything???

LegacyUser · 29-07-2001 3:24pm

i read in a pc mag that this was done where adsl wasnt and it wokred a treat , ill try to dig it out and post it up here as it gave a load of info on it!!!!!!

LegacyUser · 29-07-2001 3:29pm

ok....
First off....
www.consume.net
English crowd who have set this up and have a very good base structure.
www.un-wired.co.uk - Have some good equipment
(lucent stuff)

Likely hood is a l-o-s of about 12-14km's
with a bandwidth of 1.6mb's
(they say max of 2mb's with the 802.11b which is what a lot of lucent stuff is)

That mailing list is still going, but very quiet.

I was also thinking of starting a web site and trying to get this off of the ground.

This could all be done very well....some people maybe able to get connections to the net(through work) or even it's members could fund a connection!

This idea kinda removes the ISP angle from things.

LegacyUser · 29-07-2001 3:47pm

Originally posted by toil:
Likely hood is a l-o-s of about 12-14km's
with a bandwidth of 1.6mb's
(they say max of 2mb's with the 802.11b which is what a lot of lucent stuff is)

wow ... 12-14 kms would be amazing!

Originally posted by toil:
I was also thinking of starting a web site and trying to get this off of the ground.

I would be very interested in helping you. Although there is a lot to look in to. Like licenses, costs, how many would join, where would it be offered ....

I could do any site work, and have nice little system of people registering their interest and we could automatically record their addresses in a database to see if there would be any location with enough demand where it could work. (other sites I have done include www.statcounter.com and www.howpopular.com )

Originally posted by toil:
This could all be done very well....some people maybe able to get connections to the net(through work) or even it's members could fund a connection!

If you look at this thread they are talking about getting a leased line, and how spreading the cost of it really makes it economically possible spread over about 100 users.
http://www.boards.ie/community/Forum18/HTML/000273.html

LegacyUser · 29-07-2001 9:21pm

Originally posted by dahamsta:
Anyone in Cork up for it?

adam

Definately. I've been toying with the idea for quite a while now but never got any further. I was looking at setting something small scale up around here with a few mates at start, just for gaming, group internet etc..

Give me a shout anyway, I'd like to make a go of it.

LegacyUser · 29-07-2001 10:37pm

i does be in corcaigh but the chance of us living in same estate even if u live in an estate is slim !!!

LegacyUser · 29-07-2001 11:05pm

Well, just to get my priorities straight... My main priority is getting a very low ping (shortest latency time) as I really only use the internet for them

addictive online games

!! Faster downloads would be the iceing on the cake.

But I'm wondering, if we were to setup a WAN over Dublin, would the stucture be like this :

1) All computers on the WAN connect to 'Hub' via satellite dish on roof of house ? (I'm not sure there is any other cheap way of connecting

computers over a WAN as I only deal with LAN's ?)
BTW, personally, I would have to find a company to install the dish on my roof, as there is NO WAAAAAAAY I would get onto the roof myself

!!!!!!!!!

2) The 'Hub' is connected to the internet via an ISP at a very high speed (10Mbps or over) and is always on.. (flat-rate)...

3) There is 'Bandwidth Trothling' configured on the 'Hub' so as to limit the per person's bandwidth.... because if 1 person desides to download a big

program, they won't drag down the entire network's speed ...

4) Because of the amount of people using this to access the internet via the ISP, we all have to pay so much a month, but because there is many of

us using the service, the price is not that much (£100 or less a month, after installation of hardware and equipment etc) ?

5) I'm 90% sure that in the IFSC in the city centre of Dublin, there was fibre optic cables brought in 2 or 3 years ago inorder to connect the hugh

international companies to the internet at a very high rate of nots !!
Maybe we could ask for permission to install an antenna onto the roof of one of these buildings and connect the antenna to the hub (the hub would

be in the server room in the building), which is then connected to the internet at **Mbp/s !!

Of course, in total this would mean that we would be paying first for the Installation (Antenna, Hub(Server) and Satellite dish's for everyone's

house), then we would be paying for the actual Bandwidth, then paying/renting the space in the server room and also space on the roof of

the building for the antenna.... and also, as their would be around 100 ppl using the service, we would have to take turns ourselves to administrate

the server (maintenance) .....

It seems a bit expensive for the installation and hardware for the service, but after the initial shock of prices, I think it could work. And as this is a

non-profit project, Only people that contributed to the initial installation should be allowed to use the service. Before you bite my tongue, No

new users should be allowed join the network/service after the installation of hardware and equipment is complete, because:
1) they would slow the network down
2) they would of gotten away with paying the installation of antenna, hub etc... which is simply not fair

Phew, finally finished....

(PS) sorry for long post, I'm just trying to get some things straight in my head

!!

later,
ando

LegacyUser · 29-07-2001 11:49pm

Originally posted by ando:
BTW, personally, I would have to find a company to install the dish on my roof, as there is NO WAAAAAAAY I would get onto the roof myself

Wheres your sense of adventure man? I'm looking forward to hauling a huge microwave tranciever onto my roof.. Bones heal and for christ sake, I always have the medical card in case something very serious happens

For cork location is a huge problem (also the kit poses somewhat of a noodlescratcher). The people interested will with about a 1 in a million chance be living close together or at least have a line of sight. I'm living more or less in a valley so if I cant find someone in the same town to experiment I'm pretty much sunk. Short of that it would be worth climbing onto a few eircell masts and creating some 'repeaters' but the chances of being sued and hurt increase slightly.

No new users should be allowed join the network/service after the installation of hardware and equipment is complete, because:
1) they would slow the network down
2) they would of gotten away with paying the installation of antenna, hub etc... which is simply not fair

Fair point ando but if u made those new people give over a 'donation' as some sort of a net joining fee then technically your network could be upgraded and routed to accommodate the new users. Sure they'd get away with the preliminary setup of all the equipment but you could well subsidise that with the joining fee. Stuff is bound to break down on the network so u'd obviously need a pool of money from all the users in case of such emergencies. Obviously then when more users join you either decrease the amount of money payable by each user or put more money into the pool than previously. This is all starting to sound like a non-profit ISP which I suppose is what it is to some extent. Of course this all becomes even more appealing when something like DSL comes around because u only need a few lines to cater for all your users. (Mucho Cheapo DSL

)

Course all I've said is pretty much common sense really, just had to get it into the open so I can make more sense of it myself. Imagine the freaky **** fit most ISP's would have when they realise something like this was going on. Instead of selling a technology like dsl to 200 users, they sell it to 4. I suppose we'd be like chorus

Except for the fleecing customers and being very slow on rollout parts.

If anyone has any bright ideas on solving the location problems I'd be grateful and if theres any good sources for equipment around there do post some links

[This message has been edited by rymus (edited 30-07-2001).]

Dublin WAN

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