ADSL prices possibly £175 (per month) wholesale!!!

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Spunj:
Details are:

i-stream Business Enhanced, SOC BMSSI, SOC_TYPE:C, OL(LONG):ADSL ENHANCED CONN, OL (SHORT):ADSL ENHANCED CONN, DL:ADSL RETAIL CONN, FL:ADSL RETAIL, D/S - U/S: 1M/256k, Static public IP address, Unlimited Monthly Downloads, PPPoE Client CD.

Thats taken from the sheet he did the pricing off.

I did ask him about the Irish Times article and the 175 charge that it stated. He said that that was wrong and the prices are as I posted above.

I see no reason to believe he had it completely wrong, he seemed confident of the prices he gave...</font>

cool, it looks good that the service at £60 will be uncapped,
since the £95 a motnh one is twice the speed and uncapped

LegacyUser

IMHO £60 is too high, and will guarantee that most people won't sign up. I think every Internet user in Ireland should be entitled to broadband at a reasonable price (£30 plus line rental, for example).

If Eircom charges £60 or more, they will guarantee that ADSL does not become a success.

LegacyUser

I contacted the Irish Times regarding ADSL pricing and here is their response

My understanding was that the monthly wholesale price is high enough so that
the knock on effect on commercial pricing could be this high, amd will be
targetted at the business, not consumer market. My sources say Eircom is
unlikely to want to heavily subsidise the DSL market, as BT, AT&T and others
are doing at huge losses. Another problem is that Eircom is not offering
differentiated wholesale products for the business and consumer markets (eg
perhaps a lower-speed/higher contention ratio consumer package) but one
package, which competitors must purchase whole. This is, as I understand it,
pegged at around £100 wholesale. There's a need to distinguish between the
wholesale price -- maybe that's the £80-100 figure you've heard -- and the
consumer product, which hasn't yet been priced. I know at one point they
were considering around £60 for the latter but the markets have changed
severely and also, Eircom's under extreme pressure to perform for its
shareholders and/or to make money for its new purchaser. Subsiding DSL for
the few is not going to make shareholders happy. That leaves the Irish
market in a very problematical state.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Urban Weigl:
IMHO £60 is too high, and will guarantee that most people won't sign up. I think every Internet user in Ireland should be entitled to broadband at a reasonable price (£30 plus line rental, for example).</font>

I think we should just get the service first of all, then fight over pricing...

at the mo, with a new service coming into the country, 60 quid is not that dear especially for an uncapped limit (according to glad) !!

[This message has been edited by ando (edited 17-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

all this Subsiding make it sound like theres no money in adsl, if there wasnt any profit to be made, companies wouldnt invest, it jsut a case of if you keep everybody in the stone age you can make even more,

now that 60 isnt to bad if it includes line rental, if so id jump on it, if not then ill have to think line rental for those who dont know is £25 every 6 weeks(not every two months) so that places it at around £85

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ando:
(according to glad) !!
</font>

not according to glad! i never said that.
all im saying is telecoms need to sperate bussiness and home users,
one way is by offering a big download limit or a none at all,

another is more speed,
theres nothing saying eircom hasnt screwed us offer and offered no download limit and more speed, but looking at the price difference it seems fairer just to have the speed increase.

Basically what im saying is if the bussiness option had of been 516k and unlimited, i would have been nearly sure that the home option would have been capped.

apart from that i cannot say

LegacyUser

<edit> according to the Eircom engineer that Spunj was talking to !! </edit>

LegacyUser

Here's a link to show what some of the UK ISP's are charging for ADSL access:

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps.asp?action=index


Mike

LegacyUser

doesnt matter this is wholesale price and you can directly compare it to BT at £35 (which i think their regulator reduced recently to incurage adsl uptake)

Were does our goverment see us in a years time, because the brits ill have most of there country conencted up.

Gavin

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Urban Weigl:
IMHO £60 is too high, and will guarantee that most people won't sign up. I think every Internet user in Ireland should be entitled to broadband at a reasonable price (£30 plus line rental, for example).

If Eircom charges £60 or more, they will guarantee that ADSL does not become a success.</font>

I reckon that 60 quid is fine. The bandwidth on offer really is quite alot.. And it's close enough to always's on..

As for line rental.. Of course it would exclude line rental. Line rental will always be there

Gav

LegacyUser

no verb you miss understand, of course you pay line rental but is it(like some other places) included in the £60 or not

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 17-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

Ok if this is true ( us having to pay over £100 for ADSL ), then I say screw Eircom. They are really acting the prats if they are really going to do this. The future doesnt look good for internet access in the long run because of all this capping and high pricing. If we do eventually get some sort of broadband internet service, and it is overpriced and capped, im turing to our European cousins and getting Satellite internet installed instead, providing the price and services are reasonable. If the Irish operators are going to screw us around like this, then **** them, and take our custom to our fairer and better European operators.

My rant is over.

Gluck

Dustaz

The engineer who installed my trial adsl wouldnt be pinned down on prices (it was a while ago - he said nothing was definite). He did reckon it would be somewhere in the region of 50-60 tho.
I dont see how they can charge more for the domestic flavour and expect any take up at all.

LegacyUser

Originally posted by Spunj:
Details are:
i-stream Business Enhanced, SOC BMSSI, SOC_TYPE:C, OL(LONG):ADSL ENHANCED CONN, OL (SHORT):ADSL ENHANCED CONN, DL:ADSL RETAIL CONN, FL:ADSL RETAIL, D/S - U/S: 1M/256k, Static public IP address, Unlimited Monthly Downloads, PPPoE Client CD.

noone seems to have mentioned yet that this also mentions that this product also carries a STATIC IP address, which means that hosting must be allowed (what's the point having a static address if you can't host).

---

GavinJCD
Member of team Jim

LegacyUser

I heard off an eircom employee a good while ago they were thinking of a few offers, £50 a month for 512k but there was a 3 gig limit (which is pants), there was a few others that he said can't really remember, but he did say they were thinking about £100 for 1meg/256k and no limit.

If anything ill go for the 100 squid a month offer, im spending more then that now with my 56k

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by VacilatoR:
I heard off an eircom employee a good while ago they were thinking of a few offers, £50 a month for 512k but there was a 3 gig limit (which is pants), there was a few others that he said can't really remember, but he did say they were thinking about £100 for 1meg/256k and no limit.

If anything ill go for the 100 squid a month offer, im spending more then that now with my 56k </font>

I had sources in Eircom who supplied the same information as your source. However, according to the reporter with the Irish Times ... Eircom had considered a number of options (more or less as you described) but have now decided on only one offering which will have a wholesale price of £100 per month which expected to translate to a retail price of £175 (I do not know if this includes or excludes VAT). This will be a premium service aimed at Small to Medium Business.

While I suspect that many of us might have considered £100 (under protest) per month very few will be willing to pay £175. Even £100 per month would exclude the bulk of the Irish Population and contribute to an unacceptable digital divide.

LegacyUser

how in the hell can eircom be allowed to charge this much... i mean, what is the odtr for ????????????

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ando:
how in the hell can eircom be allowed to charge this much... i mean, what is the odtr for ????????????</font>

It is possible that we are fighting the wrong battle here. Maybe we should concentrate on flat rate access and forget about ADSL for the time being.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by infomat:
It is possible that we are fighting the wrong battle here. Maybe we should concentrate on flat rate access and forget about ADSL for the time being. </font>

I don't think so. If we temporarily drop one part of the campaign simply because of Eircom's prices we may lose credibility and respect. This will make it harder to make the point for FRIACO.

What is to stop Eircom from offering FRIACO at an absurdly high wholesale rate?

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ando:
how in the hell can eircom be allowed to charge this much... i mean, what is the odtr for ????????????</font>

The ODTR has to approve the prices that Eircom currently proposes to offer the DSL service at.

I also believe that this 'stamp of approval' may be the only way that the ODTR can exert any influence on the pricing levels. Either they approve or Eircom has to reconsider their pricing proposals (a bit of a negotiation)....

However, despite the Eircom claim that 'they operate in the most regulated environment in Europe', I have a feeling that it would be a courageous ODTR to take on the might of Eircom in the pursuit of affordable DSL for the consumer.

, ,, ,

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dustaz:
The engineer who installed my trial adsl wouldnt be pinned down on prices (it was a while ago - he said nothing was definite). He did reckon it would be somewhere in the region of 50-60 tho.
I dont see how they can charge more for the domestic flavour and expect any take up at all.</font>

Unfortunately all indications are that Eircom will not be introducing a "domestic flavour". They are planning to introduce a high priced premium service. Of course, ther is apossibility that Esat could introduce domestic service. At this stage it would appear that Esat is the only company interested in buying the Eircom wholesale service.

LegacyUser

The ODTR challenging eircoms pricing structure isn't necessarily a good thing, they'll only further delay release or abandon it. It is beyond my comprehension that a company who openly, blatantly and continuously disregards the best interest/will of the consumer, is still in business.

For instance, is it true they are only releasing ADSL in the southside because chorus are offering hi-speed connections, and disregarding the northside of the city? Or that they are avoiding the city center because of their leased ISDN lines?

What the country needs is real competition in the telecommunications sector. I would much prefer to hand my hard earned cash up to a company, who at least PRETENDS to care and listen to the customer, rather then one who obviously and shamelessly uses the easiest and quickest method to cash in and take advantage of it's position in the market.
"ADSL prices possibly £175 (per month) wholesale!!!" - typical. I really hope this upcoming seminar has impact, although judging by eircoms "stance" in respect to local loop unbundling (What!? Give our competitors a chance!! Loose money!! Help the economy!?!), I'll remain somewhat sceptic .

LegacyUser

If Eircod really are planning to offer DSL as a premium service aimed at Small businesses for £175 wholesale, the Government should step in and make them cop on, after all they are elected to look out for the interests of the Irish people. Eircod have a monopoly on the provision of services such as DSL therefore they should be obliged to introduce them on a fair basis to business and consumer alike.
Imagine if you will, Electricity has just been invented and Eircod are the sole providers…”Eircon consider the provision of Electricity a premium service which will be aimed at the small business community, we see no market (or profit) for the provision of electricity to home consumers, who would be better served using our existing(and more profitable) candle rental service.”
A bit extreme I know but I don’t see why I should have to suffer because of Eircod’s monopoly position and greed.



[This message has been edited by Dr99 (edited 21-08-2001).]

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kamobe:

"ADSL prices possibly £175 (per month) wholesale!!!" - typical. .</font>

I think that there is some confusion here. The wholesale price is expected to be £100 per month. The £175 price is the projected retail price.

LegacyUser

woah woah woah, im not a business man, just a techi, but i'm a bit confused about wholesale and retail... so when eircom start offering dsl to the public, how much will it cost for the home user ? 100 ot 175 quid ?

Gavin

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
no verb you miss understand, of course you pay line rental but is it(like some other places) included in the £60 or not

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 17-08-2001).]</font>

Hum... I quote my above post

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">As for line rental.. Of course it would exclude line rental. Line rental will always be there. </font>

Gav

dahamsta

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ando:
woah woah woah, im not a business man, just a techi, but i'm a bit confused about wholesale and retail... so when eircom start offering dsl to the public, how much will it cost for the home user ? 100 ot 175 quid ?</font>

Wholesale is the price the network owner - Eircom - will be selling at to the ISP's - Eircom Net, Esat, etc. So wholesale doesn't really matter to you, apart from the fact that it pushes up the retail price. If these prices are true, you'd be paying £175. If the ISP's would sell to you that is.

I don't think battling the rollout will solve anything. That's *exactly* what Eircom want you to do. The battlefield should be pricing, but stopping the rollout will just allow Eircom to say "well, we tried to roll it out but you wouldn't let us".

adam

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ando:
woah woah woah, im not a business man, just a techi, but i'm a bit confused about wholesale and retail... so when eircom start offering dsl to the public, how much will it cost for the home user ? 100 ot 175 quid ?</font>

Please bear in mind that as Eircom has not released any pricing information everything is pure speculation. Up until recently people had guessed prices based on what was being charged abroad. Recently the Irish Times dropped a bombshell by reporting that the end user price (retail price) could be as high as 222 Euros.
I will not make some attempt to explain the difference between retail price and wholesale.

Wholesale price is what Eircom will charge someone like ESAT for access to whatever is required to allow them (i.e. Esat) offer an ADSL service to their customers (end users). As ESAT need to make some money the price that they charge (the RETAIL price) needs to be higher (assuming they are passing on the full service) than the WHOLESALE price.

The story relating to supply of ADSL appears to be as follows:
Eircom are not interested in dealing with home users, and there are many logical reasons for this. Therefore, they are only offering a premium service aimed at business users ... this service has a Wholesale price of £100 and a Retail price of £175 (this is assumed, as no one has any idea of their proposed retail pricing structure).

If you (a home user) wish to deal with Eircom you will have no option but to accept a premium service priced at £175 (the retail price).
If you as a home user wish to deal with ESAT they will buy the service at £100 per month and then charge you whatever the wish depending upon the configurations they decide to offer.

If they did nothing more than pass on the service supplied by Eircom one could assume a markup of 33.33% which is the same as adding 50% to the wholesale price giving a retail price of £150 undercutting Eircom by £25.

For argument (ignoring technical constraints) they could offer you 25% of the bandwidth and as this would cost them 25 per month they would most likely charge you between £40 and £60 per month. This approach would yield better profit margins for Esat.

I hope that this rather longwinded explanition makes some sense.

LegacyUser

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dahamsta:

I don't think battling the rollout will solve anything. That's *exactly* what Eircom want you to do. The battlefield should be pricing, but stopping the rollout will just allow Eircom to say "well, we tried to roll it out but you wouldn't let us".

adam</font>

I 100% agree with you on this ... Eircom are just looking for any excuse to defer the introduction of ADSL.