Mod/standards- not a complaint :)

BuffyBot

I was just about to post this on the previous thread, but it got locked...sorry for dragging it up again but I spent ages writing this up and want to say it (if only to vent)

I don't think anyone expects mods to be saintly or perfect on boards. However, I do think its reasonable for users to expect mods to be fair and reasonably pleasant to deal with, regardless of newbieness or not - and there have been cases where they haven't been, and that I think is what people are complaining about of late.

The mods on boards.ie are a good bunch. However there are one or two (and when you consider the amount of mods on boards.ie thats not a bad figure) that I personally wouldn't let supervise my cat, never mind anything else. I think people feel afraid to complain about them because they get shot down publicly for doing so.

Maybe it is time boards.ie got a bit more "official" and less ad-hoc with complaints. Perhaps there should be a properly documented complaints procedure which people can use privately (about mods or other posters) rather then just a post on the admin board for Moderators anyone else to feels like to take the piss out of? It could use a generic ID rather than an individual Admins mailbox, which might make people more comfortable approaching the Admins. No offence to DeV and the others, but perhaps you may be seen as part of the "clique" the complainers are complaining about half of the time.

Perhaps the admins of boards.ie should create a publicly available list of guidelines or a Moderators charter which outlines exactly what is expected by the mods of the members, and what the members can expect from the mods...

I'm happy enough, but we should be trying to make the place even more welcoming to newcomers if we want to expand the membership. And like it or not, mods are kind of "the face" of boards.ie

Thanx 4 The Fish

Well said, just a quick note on your sig, did you intentionally mis-spell cavalry ? At the moment your sig mentions the place where jesus was crucified

Carbiens

i think this is a great idea, nothing too in-dept, but small guidelines not to control but to help mods do their jobs, let them know what on and whats not.
another thing that id like to see is an ease off on the n00bs, you were all newbies once and even though most of the people on boards are not only helpful but they have no problem giving help out of their own free will, but there are a few who kinda take it a bit too far. they could just tone it down a litlle bit.

and finally, the face of boards, (sorry, but it was such a great quote, i just could'nt help myself):p :rolleyes:

the face of boards.ie

Mercury_Tilt

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WhiteWashMan

is this another thread about mods and complaining on the admin boards?


gosh, how interesting.


yawn.


tell you what buffybot, why dont you go and sort out all the proceedures and documentation and stuff, and come back when youve got it done, because lets face it, no one here wants to actually do that sort of stuff, and i know you wouldnt suggest it unless you were prepared to do it.
and when youve got it done, please feel free to come back and present it to the whole community, and try and get by in from the admin's, after all, its work for them that you are creating.

otherwise, you can just keep going the way youre going now,a dn we will all get along fine and dandy, and we can continue to have a laugh at people who continuously complain on the admin boards because their freedom of speech has been abuse and they have just found out that not everyone is nice in life.

boo hoo.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
There is no face to boardsie. It gone from an online community to a community online. Nothing will ever be perfect given the many different people here and their thoughts.

I beg to differ. Every community has leaders, and in the case the mods/admins are the community leaders. To foster a good community spirit, people must know what they can expect from the mods.

I think its more reasonable to expect everyone to be pleasant to deal with. Be they newbie, mod, admin or anyone.

I never said otherwise But we aren't discussing how users should behave, are we?

There is a sysetm for complaining. You can also PM an admin if required. As you pointed out
here

Yup, and that is half the reason I posted this thread. Upon reflection, I don't think that system is working very well - hence my suggestion of a new one. Posting it up opens it up to ridicule from people (including myself), which then turns it into flaming, detracting from the original point.

Your suggestion would not have made people react any different.

It would. Had the complaint gone to a private mailbox, we would never have known, and therefore there would have been no reaction from everyone

And there is a mod board were mods get a spanking on btw.

I'm well aware of that. How effective it happens to be is for another thread.

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
is this another thread about mods and complaining on the admin boards?

gosh, how interesting.


yawn.

I guess it is. You don't have to read it if you don't like it though However, at least this one contained, what I think is a valid suggestion/observation.

How do you know what people here want? Have you asked them this question before WWM?

What I am asking is can we really keep doing what has been done before? As the community grows and grows, can everything be kept on a "lets have a laugh at the muppets posting complaints" basis? Boards is growing, and sooner or later choices are going to have to be made. Any online community, as it expands has to make choices on how it deals with issues like this - as the community grows larger, it will not be possible to keep things on such an informal basis as it is now.

As for writing things up - I could as online communities are my line of work, but no one has died and made me admin on boards.ie yet I'm not demanding this be done and done now, I'm merely throwing the idea in for consideration.

You will always have complaining muppets in any community, it doesn't mean we should allow valid complaints to go unheeded because people are afraid to post it in public/afraid of PM'ing an Admin, afraid of being shot down by the regulars.

Keeks

Originally posted by BuffyBot
[BI'm happy enough, but we should be trying to make the place even more welcoming to newcomers if we want to expand the membership. And like it or not, mods are kind of "the face" of boards.ie [/B]

There are over 13,000 registered users (how many are bubbles i don't actually know) and almost 300 forums here if not more. how much more expanding do u want?

As for how good or bad mods are, why not name and shame? To be good at something you need some sort of feedback, i.e someone telling u wheather u are doing a good/bad job. None of us mods can actually become any better if no one tells us if we are doing a good job or bad one.

Name the 1/2 you wouldn't let supervise you're cat. Let the Admins investigate. and let that be that. What we don't need if generalisation of mods saying we're doing a **** job. It just leads to trolling.

Gordon

Yeah, good point Keeks, maybe you can inform the admins as to what mods aren't being as favourable as you say buffybot?

BuffyBot

Keeks, I think you will find I made no such generalisation. If you read my post I said the mods on this site are a good bunch, something I stand by and repeat for anyone who may have missed it.

I amn't personally intent on expanding boards.ie. It's doing that by itself, without any of my help. When I said "we", I meant all users. I would assume that most users like to see new people join in and contribute. Communities that stagnate eventually die out in the long term.

I do not want new, (or indeed older) users to be subjected to what they have been merely because they dared to have a grievance. What I am suggesting is that the process of airing that grievance be changed from a public one to a private one - not just an ad-hoc PM to a specific admin. To a newbie that is not much good for reasons I've outlined already

I'm not naming and shaming the 1 or 2, because the people I refered to are people I personally wouldn't have chosen. I (as in me) do not think they are any good at what they do, nor should my opinion of them be taken as representative of my opinion of the mods in general. This is simply my opinion Keeks, not anything else. I doubt my opinion sways the minds of the Admins either way.

This was not intended to be a troll, and it will only be made look like one by those who reply in such a manner. I intended this to be a constructive thing..others will make it what it turns out to be.


Gordon, you may have missed my point. I'm not complaining about these moderators - what I'm trying to say is that perhaps the way people complain needs to be changed.

Gordon

OK buffy. One thing though, DeV is saying that he rarely if ever gets reports from "report this post" link. You are saying that newbies or others are not willing to report this kind of thing via that link? I just can't see a better way of reporting such a grievance.

What you are saying about a mod charter or a guideline for mods is a good idea tbh and it sounds like you would have some good feedback on this. To be honest Buffy maybe you could write up such am idea of template - as an "innocent bystander" and pass it along to the admin. It would give people an understood way of dealing with such a grievance in my eyes. As for what actual direction or route a poster would take would be up to the Admin but, I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Anything that is said should surely be private.

The_Bullman

just a note to say that the link says, report this link to a moderator. The problem with this is that the user may feel that this reports the users problem to the mod which he/she has the problem with. If it where made clear that this post would also go to a neutral party(if there is such a thing) then I feel that it would be used more frequently.

You could also make the link a little larger too by the way. You never know it might help

Gordon

Well to be honest it doesnt say that anymore, it just says "report". Maybe it should say "Report this to Admin" or something more formal?

Evil Phil

Originally posted by BuffyBot
Maybe it is time boards.ie got a bit more "official" and less ad-hoc with complaints. Perhaps there should be a properly documented complaints procedure which people can use privately (about mods or other posters) rather then just a post on the admin board for Moderators anyone else to feels like to take the piss out of? It could use a generic ID rather than an individual Admins mailbox, which might make people more comfortable approaching the Admins. No offence to DeV and the others, but perhaps you may be seen as part of the "clique" the complainers are complaining about half of the time.

Perhaps the admins of boards.ie should create a publicly available list of guidelines or a Moderators charter which outlines exactly what is expected by the mods of the members, and what the members can expect from the mods...

The_Bullman

sorry I meant after you click report it then goes to report this link to a moderator

[/edit] Really constructive post there Evil Phil

Evil Phil

Really constructive post there Evil Phil

[edit]
Actually I'm not sorry, I found the file and decided to use it. Pictures speak in a thousand words etc. I think it was WWM's originally.
[/edit]
The current complaints procedure is good enough. If someone is going to complain about myself (it has happened in the past) I'd like to know who it is: after all I'm doing this voluntarily and out of my own pocket, as are all the mods. Sure we get a little short tempered at times, deal with it or go and pay for the service elsewhere.

The people who really get a hard time from the mods are usually a problem anyway, I can't think of a case where somebody was 'picked' on who wasn't a problem.

ButcherOfNog

i think people are missing the point here, like what sort of cat is this we're talking about?

Mercury_Tilt

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BuffyBot

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
Quick question Buffy.. Are you talking about Mod'ing standards.deleting post/edits/bias etc.. or that having being mod means one should always be on their best behaviour? Bit like the head master say" never forget boy!!! out side school hours whilst you are wear that uniform you represent this school and as so...."

Merc - It's a bit of both. There is no way mods have to be on their best behaviour all the time - there are always muppets who deserve what they get, and there are times when mods have to have a laugh, and mods have bad days It's not school, and it boards would suffer if it were run such a way. That doesn't mean they should have carte blanche either

yellum

I'd be all for some sort of basic charter for Mods on how to do their Mod given duty.

It would have to be made clear though that Mods are equally allowed to exercise their freedom of speech as well as the other non-mods but they should in some way distinguish when they are Moderating and when they are just contributing.

I think some Mods might get a bit irked though that they have to behave to a set of written rules all of a sudden. However if this charter guidelines were fair and well thought out they'll change their minds since as mods they have the ability to think rationally.

sceptre

^ what yellum said

All for it. Always nice when mods say they're wearing their mod hat (though to rip off Yes Minister, if you have two hats you may have two faces and that wouldn't do at all). Granted, most times it's obvious. Rather than have DeV point out that his time is limited (and expensive), I'd be happy to help out anyone who's up for writing this mod charter type thing. If there are rules and guidelines, which we follow, no-one will feel that people are just making it up when it suits them. Fairer to all concerned.

ironbrew

I'd be all for some sort of basic charter for Mods on how to do their Mod given duty.

A lot of you mods have 1000+ posts which means you've been here quite a while, surely if you need some sort of charter on how to do your job, then there is something wrong?!

Although it might come in handy for NEW mods

Dazzer

Charter's are there for BOTH mod's and users alike.

yellum

Originally posted by ironbrew
surely if you need some sort of charter on how to do your job, then there is something wrong?!

Unwritten rules are easier to misinterpret and forget. Just because mods have been around here a long while doesn't mean they're infallible (and post count isn't the best way to be a judge of that. Quality not quantity of posts, those with sub1000 post counts say that anyway )

Rules once they're not too restrictive anf funsapping are an aid not a handicap. This community is expanding at a huge rate which is good if the community spirit is kept.

Its probably got to the point now where DeVore and the Admins are finding it hard to keep track of all the mods nevermind all the users. With this size increase some rules and charters are a good way to manage the community without too much direct intervention.

If people want to volunteer to write a charter I'll be happy to give feedback on it but I'm not willing to write one myself cos I'm too lazy.

seamus

In fairness, it's not totally clear how to complain, and seeing as the majority of people complaining about mods are newbies, obviously somehow it just needs to be made nice and clear why a topic is locked/edited/moved.

Maybe if, when a topic is moderated, the Mod makes a post such as

Thread Locked.

Reason: <user>'s post in breach of this board's Charter.

If you have a problem with this, PM me or any of the bod's mods, or post on Admin, stating clearly your grievance, and including a link to this thread.

A little formal maybe, but it may help keep things clearer for newbies. It's not exactly obvious what the report button is for, unless you go searching.
No, we shouldn't have to hold their hands, but if it helps reduce the number of bitching threads then it's useful.

Keeks

How Mods Should Behave....

It's a bit of both. There is no way mods have to be on their best behaviour all the time - there are always muppets who deserve what they get, and there are times when mods have to have a laugh, and mods have bad days It's not school, and it boards would suffer if it were run such a way. That doesn't mean they should have carte blanche either

So what exactly is the problem again?

Typedef

I mean down with this sort of thing.












yeah

azezil

i'm a mod ph34r meh!!

/me shakes fist ... grrrrr

Mercury_Tilt

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Mercury_Tilt

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Mercury_Tilt

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Gordon