Admin is dead, long live Admin.

DeVore

I'm trying something that occured to me the other day. We've changed Admin so that anyone can create a thread but only admins can reply to it.

We've moved the general lounge-chatter stuff here as we still enjoy it but it was beginning to cause problems in that we were missing board-requests and other stuff (the Motorsports board nearly didnt get created as a result!)

So, this is the new "Admin" feedback forum, the Admin forum will become the official response area for the Admins.

DeV.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

DeVore

Mostly the boring posts that require the admins attention.
We'll be closing/transferring Bugs/Suggestions I expect.

Its for more specific problems then the general discussion *about* Boards that was being mixed in.

I guess we might even call it Admin/Support

DeV.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

ironbrew

Seems like a good idea DeV, but i'm sightly confused in, say if someone were to post a thread in the Admin board asking for some sort of community or private board how could we or where could we endorse it at?

amp

Tis a sad day, had a lot of fun in Admin. But it's for the best.

BioHazRd

Ironbrew,

Taken from http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82722

This forum is for the Admins to respond to specific requests for change to the system. We've created a forum called Feedback which should be the main community dicussion board for discussing the community.

Things that should be posted here are:
1. New boards requests. The admins will respond here then move it to Feedback for community feedback on the idea if it merits it.

Does that answer your question

Bio

Keeks

Originally posted by DeVore
Mostly the boring posts that require the admins attention.
We'll be closing/transferring Bugs/Suggestions I expect.

Its for more specific problems then the general discussion *about* Boards that was being mixed in.

I guess we might even call it Admin/Support

DeV.

To me this looks like ur just renameing the boards. Wasn't the Bugs/suggestions board where all the boards requests and bugs and stuff were to be discussed and the admin board where all the "feedback" was to go on originally.

If ppl would actually post on the right board this problem wouldn't exist. And the reson for that was the Admins rarely ever visited the Bugs board. Well it just looked like that, since there comments are less frequent on it.

<Edit>
the pursose of this board
</edit>

ironbrew

Ahh i get it now!

thanx a million bio.

yellum

Originally posted by Keeks

If ppl would actually post on the right board this problem wouldn't exist.

Sometimes it is easier to change one tech setting than make a whole community change, even if they are actually doing things the wrong way. Sad but true.

DeVore

Hi Y'all.

I guess what we (actually this is mainly my idea so blame me) are doing is merging Bugs and Admin together and Feedback and Suggestions together.

I highly value the community brain power as its often come up with ideas and suggestions that we wouldnt have thought of but it was becoming clear that communication on the Admin forum was being drowned out by a mistaken presumption that the "Moderator" title meant something of authority in the overall Boards system.

We've always said and continue to say that Mods are some of our best posters and shouldnt have to toe a party line simply because they have volunteered to be Mods (they are after all people who have opinions too) but we wanted somewhere where the admins could reply to specific requests for bugs to be fixed, changes to be made and general Q&A and announcements. I think that Feedback / Suggestions is going to be 10 times more active but the Admins will only have to *actively* deal with threads in Admin.

It was getting to the stage that I had to read everything in Admin every day and act on them there and then or the buildup was too much and frequently I'd miss stuff and have to be reminded of it!

So, the rules on Feedback will be the same or more relaxed then the old Admin... allowing for more discussion without interferring with the important business of getting the admins to do what is needed

Wow, I actually sound like I thought this out ...

DeV.

bubbles

Righto.... wow, plently of ammo there DeV, thanks or something.

Lets begin with the good auld "The admins are a bit pissed off with you lot" thread ( http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78900 ) where DeV says

"Admin" is not a chatter zone for the "in" crowd.

To be followed up by

...it was becoming clear that communication on the Admin forum was being drowned out by a mistaken presumption that the "Moderator" title meant something of authority in the overall Boards system.

So this clearly points out that the people you where telling where to

**** up or **** OFF.... yeah?

where indeed the moderators? I'm not digging up this argument again, but what the **** are you on DeVore?

Let me get this right.... so you're saying Mods have **** all to do in the running of boards.ie? You expect everyone to follow the mods charter for their board, accept their decision on what threads where locked or deleted when you say they have a mistaken presumption that mods have authority?

Fine. Maybe you should run along there and unban the people who where banned from the humour board? They did nothing wrong since the charter made by a mod has, in your own words "presumption that the "Moderator" title meant something of authority"

And don't give me this "i meant in the overall boards system" ****e. In case you havn't noticed - boards.ie is made of some little tiny boards, and some bigger boards, which only together make up the "overall boards system" Each is the ruler of their own little section. Like it or not, the Mods do have a say in the overall boards system. Its them who read every post in their section making sure everything is running smoothly. Ok, most of them asked to be Mod, and you gave them the position because you thought they where responcable enough to do it. They are doing you admins a favour, by digging through the **** and cleaning it up. After you give them this abilty, you turn around and smack each of them in the face - *slap* bad little mod, you are nothing, how dare you post comments and sarcastic remarks on admin *smack* bad little mods, know your place

The majority of posters happen to be mods, because they tend to be the people who spend most time making contribution to boards, and you, the admins, gave them the belief that they where actually apriciated. And yes, this would make you think that if you where a mod, that your suggestions and posts are valued somewhat more than some newbie who has 20 posts.

And speaking of newbies, I remember reading somewhere a couple of days ago someone asking a question about features, and even said he wasn't bothered reading the FAQ for the answer (nice chap even admited it). Good man in my opinion. He probably values his time, and doesn't want to dig through loads of **** he isn't interested in just to find the answer to one thing. What do people, including an Admin do? Slam him for asking and not reading the FAQ. Poor chap was mistaken in the belief it would have been quicker simply to ask someone.

DeVore made a comment along the lines "no, instead you waste our time" How many times have you asked a question in IRC, about something, lets say a quake console command for example in IRC, when the answer was in the readme or online quake quides? Why can't this person not ask a question to get an answer quickly from someone who already knows the answer and you can?

This is excatly the type of **** I do be moaning about. The way newbies are treated by the admins and by Mods. How dare someone not know something! Its like when someone makes a suggestion for something, a rating system for example. All the get is a rude ""its there if you looked you stupid ****er""

And i do know what I'm talking about. You people know my habbit for having a few accounts, and the way I am treated when posting under these accounts which would of course have newbie status for a while is amazing. You mods(not all mods) and admins fail to forget sometimes that you where new once too, and because you are so familier with everything, and with the people everything seems easy and straight forward to you.
The majority of boards.ie is bascially a hanging out place for, as Dev puts it the 'in" crowd - why? Because your own heads have been lodged up your own arses over the years while you where licking your assholes over the years.

The Admins have created boards, you have also created most of the problems(these things happen, noone is perfect - but don't accuse and belittle other people because of them. Like Keeks comments above, the admins caused the admin board to be what it was, and their responce is to tell people to "**** up" and tell everyone who is a mod, in the eyes of admins are absolutly nothing. The amount of double standards around here is amazing.

Bard

Christ.... :eek:

well...

said...

Bubbles!

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Dustaz

The admin lock is annoying. Theres a thread up there referring to CGI:IRC which begs some questions, but we cant ask them because of the forum lock. Sure, we could open a thread here to mirror it but err, thats just complicated.

Admin was getting REALLY annoying imo, way way way too much noise but and im being completely blunt here, this should not happen on ANY boards. The mods would/should warn, lock and ban if needs be to keep it under control.

The recycle bin is there if people want to chatter and pretend its irc.

Slydice

Well Said Bubbles!

ecksor

Originally posted by Dustaz

Theres a thread up there referring to CGI:IRC which begs some questions, but we cant ask them because of the forum lock.

Well, CGI::IRC can't really go on any of the boards servers to allow access to irc and won't be going on any of the boards servers and that's final, as regi has said, so further questions about it are basically irrelevant on the admin forum.



There are lots of tech forums to ask such questions on though, whether your question was about performance, or about the kline that regi mentioned (in which case you'd probably be pointed to the quakenet faq, particularly this bit -> http://www.quakenet.org/faq/faq.php?c=128&f=127 )

I know that's unfriendly, but in the interests of noise reduction it does make sense!

amp

Bubbles, voice of the newb, defender of democracy on boards.ie, battles the evil "in-crowd" in the name of justice, truth and love.

Will his heroic efforts be in vain? Can he really fight against the natural urge for humans to form "in-crowds". For strangers to be treated differently to people they've actually met, or know?

Tune in next week.
Same boards user.
Same boards channel.
Same fight the power rant...

amp: who's going to write a US Teen movie (you know the type; nerdy loser fights in-crowd jocks using brain, to get chick) about this.

Typedef

Yeah but, I just don't fancy Dawson, it's nothing to do with me identifying with Pacy and hating that damn cookie cutter Dawson Leary.

*no really...

logic1

Well said Bubbles.

.logic.

amp

Originally posted by Typedef
Yeah but, I just don't fancy Dawson, it's nothing to do with me identifying with Pacy and hating that damn cookie cutter Dawson Leary.

*no really...

Yeah, I agree. He's had like, at least 20 babes climbing *into* his bedroom. Some even take their tops off. And he still can't get laid. Now if only we could combine Dawsons great looks with Pacy's wit and charm....

Typedef

The wierd part is that ... I've never even watched Dawson's creek.....

chick flicks

as if.

Dustaz

Originally posted by ecksor

There are lots of tech forums to ask such questions on though, whether your question was about performance, or about the kline that regi mentioned (in which case you'd probably be pointed to the quakenet faq, particularly this bit -> http://www.quakenet.org/faq/faq.php?c=128&f=127 )

I know that's unfriendly, but in the interests of noise reduction it does make sense!

Theres the question i was going to ask, on topic i feel, pretty much answered. Ta xor. It just feels strange that it had to be answered in a completly different forum, in a thread thats as bad as the admin ones were

amp

Originally posted by Typedef
The wierd part is that ... I've never even watched Dawson's creek.....

chick flicks

as if.

Uh... me neither. Nope. /me whistles

Btw. I think some of the angst about Admin is generated because when some of us see that the thread is dead, we can't help but throw it wildly off-topic.

It's bold I know. And I'm trying to quit. It's just I've quit so many things I like this year and *sniff* I really wanted to change, cause if I changed then maybe Joey would love me again.

/me rows back across the creek gently crying...

DeVore

Sorry bubbles I had you on ignore. What was that?


Bottom line guys, I have had to field a lot of mails from people that started of "I would have posted this on Admin but I didnt think it was XYZ enough" or "I was too afraid to post this on admin".

We had a lot of signal and a lot of noise. Now, I initially tried to get people to shut up on the noise side, but that felt wrong.

Noise is signal-in-the-wrong-place.... So I created a place where we can all chat about stuff about Boards and how its working etc and left another board where people can talk directly to the admins and ask them directly to do stuff for them.

We're trying something new... maybe it will work better and maybe it wont, but I felt the "noise" was too high on the Admin Board.... here, we can be more relaxed about the "noise" and be 'stricter' with it on Admin.

This IS a community influenced website but its also a benevolent dictatorship. We've never said otherwise. That means sometimes there are dictats issued but they are genuinely what we (and the other admins have agreed with me on this) feel the site needs at that time.

If bubbles and others want to troll and suggest that I'm treating you contempt, then I will let you (plural) be the judges of that and vote with your time and browsers.

DeV.

DeVore

ps: there were many people, usually mods, who were very helpful to newbies and who offered succinct and helpful answers. Unfortunately there were others (some mods, some not) who made admin reasonably unworkable. Not the least of which included trolling and baiting.

I'm sorry to have lost the help of those mods as they were genuinely helpful to others (Seamus springs to mind, amongst others), and it will mean more work for us in the long run probably but the answers were being lost in the noise and it wasnt the right way to handle "support"...

We may ask some people to help us with support requests in the future, but the only way to do that now would be to play favourites and pick individuals and we werent prepared to do that.

DeV.

bubbles

This IS a community influenced website but its also a benevolent dictatorship.

Don't think anyone would argue with you there, but because myself and others have a different opinion doesn't mean we are trolling. If you don't like it, thats your problem, just like its my problem if you say something I disagree with. Anyway, I'm sure people would aggree with me that you're doing far more trolling these days then me DeVore. And you expect other people who use boards to be nice to each other when the admins are like that?!

Anyway, my overall point was not what you wanted to do with the admin/feedback board - it was your attitiude towards people, (esp the Mods), who all helped make this community. Seems you sometimes forget that. Still, havn't had one person here or on IRC disagree with me yet over what I said, so get your little mirror, and ask it, mirror mirror on the wall, who is the biggest troll of them all. You mightn't see it, but others do.

Accept it.


Manners - they go a long way in this world

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by DeVore

If bubbles and others want to troll

i have to say Tom, i get really bored of people accusing anyone who does not agree with the status quo of being a troll.
every day i get called a troll because i tell someone that i dont agree, because i say something against another mod, because i can actually think without the rest of the sheep herd population bleating in the same direction as me.

dont make the mistake of always thinking that as well. youre brighter than that.
of course, it is bubbles, and once you cry wolf......

Originally posted by DeVore
ps: there were many people, usually mods, who were very helpful to newbies and who offered succinct and helpful answers. Unfortunately there were others (some mods, some not) who made admin reasonably unworkable. Not the least of which included trolling and baiting.

and there are people who get sick of the same questions all the time.
there are people who are sick of giving the answers to the same questions all the time, only to have the answers thrown back in their faces.

Originally posted by DeVore
I'm sorry to have lost the help of those mods as they were genuinely helpful to others (Seamus springs to mind, amongst others), and it will mean more work for us in the long run probably but the answers were being lost in the noise and it wasnt the right way to handle "support"...

i think you will find that most people have always been helpful.
and i think you will find that once one person acts the arse, there are only too many people willing to jusmp on the band wagon to get their reall funny remark in.
on boards.ie, everyones a fúcking comedian.....

Originally posted by DeVore
We may ask some people to help us with support requests in the future, but the only way to do that now would be to play favourites and pick individuals and we werent prepared to do that.

but surely thats what its always been?
surely you picked people on soem sort of basis that you liked them and thought theyd make a good mod, as opposed to just some random punter on the boards.

i'll be honest, i think its about time that boards sort of said, this is boards.ie, like it or leave it, and this is the admin team, and we do what we bloody well please.

you are doing too much to try to please all the people all of the time, and its really starting to get messy, with people suggesting you write up rules and regulations and this and that.

again, as ive said before, its all becoming regimented. its begining to lose that 'laissez fair' feel it used to have when it was just a collection of people who knew each other and had a good laugh and fought and píssed each other off and bragged about 4 colours of brown.

its just a big on line community, and some people have stronger personalities than others, and people have good and bad days.

you may as well have a little tester that will only allow people to post if they are within their own user defined limits.

warning wwman, you are píssed off today, please remember to not post anything sarcastic or thought provoking. people will misinterpret ie as trolling.........



and bubbles. give it a rest.

as for the rest of this thread. yep, on topic and on target as always....l.

DeVore

Well now, sorry for you if you dont like people thinking that you and bubbles are trolling but frankly you cried wolf enough to warn of an entire pack. I find it hard to take anything either of you say seriously as a result.

I will however address Eamos points in his last post as I believe he's being serious.

i think you will find that most people have always been helpful.

Yes, they have but it only takes a fraction to stick their boot in to disrupt that helpfulness.
Whats that line? "It takes one tree to make a thousand matches, and only takes one match to burn a thousand trees".

I honestly think this set up is better for everyone , we can have discussion, feedback and suggestions here and a support forum consisting of direct communication with the admins on the Admin / Support forum.


Of course, the nay-sayers (the same nay-sayers as ever) havent even given it a chance before presuming its some slight on something or other.. I'm not even sure what the argument is tbh...

and i think you will find that once one person acts the arse, there are only too many people willing to jusmp on the band wagon to get their reall funny remark in.

Thats accurate enough. Only you'll find it was a different set of people jumping on the bandwagon each time. You included as I'm sure you'll admit.

i'll be honest, i think its about time that boards sort of said, this is boards.ie, like it or leave it, and this is the admin team, and we do what we bloody well please.

When have we ever said otherwise?

I *try* and be fair, because its in my nature. I *like* the idea of a community evolving through its own decision because I am a proponent of free speech IN ITS TRUE FORM and in the idea that things are more then the sum of their parts.
and mostly because I think the world has lost the sort of community gathering places that I saw in Pompeii , which is where Boards really started to ferment in my mind. A place where people, everyone, could come and discuss the issues of the day.

However, I've seen a hundred things go wrong on account of committees and working groups and no clear leadership.
I'm not prepared to let boards go like that so while we avail of the combined thinking power of the community (which we have done in the past), when a decision has to be made, we, the admins, will make it.

So, let me state this: I want EVERYONE to be happy... I want to bring everyone with me whereever this merry road leads us.

But if we lose a few along the way who cant agree to work that way or who dont see what we're trying to achieve, then so be it.


Look at it this way.... We've renamed Admin to Feedback and created a Bug-Ticket System board called Admin / Support.

(Look at: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82904 Do you see how this is kinda working? I could never have had that succinct a conversation over an issue before this except through mail....)


There, does that clarify everything?


Jeezzzzzzzz....

DeV.

ironbrew

umm i think nearly everything already was clarified, it's just some people or ranting on about the Mods Vs the newbies(me) argumnet and how they arn't being treated right, but yip your right because i was *nearly* always treated with respect and the mods freely let me have my opnion, accept for the occasional fag!

but on the other hand i tihnk this has sorta started over my thread on "private boards" and the way newbies were threated there so on that basis me says sorry! Anyway i don't see theres that much of a change in the renaming of the boards Admin/support etc... as it does help the admins spot the requests that matter and i';d say ive visted this board more than Admin since this has become the board for the "in crowd" and all the chitter chatter has moved here

P.S..i did actually like your speech Bubbles...im renaming it..."i have a dream...." By Mr. Soap Bubbles....

btw...im probally talking bollock, because i always do and im doing my GCSE coursework:rolleyes:

bubbles

Well now, sorry for you if you dont like people thinking that you and bubbles are trolling but frankly you cried wolf enough to warn of an entire pack. I find it hard to take anything either of you say seriously as a result.

Let me assure you that I am serious, and thats a kind of lame and petty thing to do, saying that I have cried wolf so many times...

How ofter do I cry wolf (ok, maybe 3 years ago things where different). Examples please? I mean, i hardly post as bubbles anymore - so there's pretty much **** all I can get up to, and I'm guessing you don't know my other aliases....so please, prove to the people how I am... and I mean real evidence - not that fake stuff like those fake logs etc you issued trying to corner me during my Ali G phase (which is actually very lame in itself, you could have least put a bit of effort into making it look half convincing)

Not going to go on any further about the comments in the above post, I made my point fairly well I think

Grow up.