Anti-war protest this Saturday

egg_

This Saturday, at 2pm in Parnell Square in Dublin, there will be a
national anti-war protest. I don't know where you personally stand -
whether you're utterly apathetic, whether you think the US's motivation is oil or power or genuine concern for the stability of the world, whether you think Saddam is a genuine threat or a bogeyman (or a bit of both) - and really I don't care.

But the thing is this: the most powerful military force ever is
preparing to ignore the wishes of the vast majority of the people in
the world, and go to war.

This is bad. This is important. This has the potential to affect us all.

Now is your chance to do something about it. You may not get another. Never mind that the protest may contain traces of tree-huggers. Please show up.

the happy hobo

See you there egg_

Dexy

Bush wont care! what does he care if a few hundred/thousand (and i quote) "tree hugers" turn out to protest against the greatest military power the world know's today.Tell me honestly,Do you really expect Bush to think "ah well maybe they have a good point maybe we should think about it before we eliminate a definite threat to the United States". Hes not gonna do that now is he..........if they have the power to take on Iraq and lets face it pretty much any other country in the world why not throw there proverbial weight around you know if it was Ireland in the position of World Superpower you wouldnt care about human misiery if you felt a threat to you or your family as the American people obviously do. America fells threathened theyve never felt as threathend as they do now with the exception of the cold war. Honestly i think Bush is a just a plain gun-nut who's not good for the world but any other world leader would re-act the same given the opportunity

BrianD

Interestingly, I read a report about a march in San Francisco that attended by 200,000 people. It only got a brief mention on CNN and that said that it wasn't well attended! Who do you believe these days?

There is no doubting that Saddam has to go but I am well and truely pissed off with the western governments manipulate the media to scare ordinary folk. Tanks and soldiers in Heathrow airport - what sort of scaremongering is that? The surface-to-air missile has been around for 30 years and all of a sudden it's now a threat?

As for Bertie supporting the use of Shannon by the US military. Will he extend the use of facilities to Americas best friend the British military? Perhaps in July, when tensions flare in Northern Ireland, British soldiers will be able to stop off in Shannon from the Middle East for a bit of duty free on the way to Belfast to quell a few riots.

DerekD Goldfish

Bush wont care

Probably not and a few thousand / million people protesting probably wont make any difference but we should at least try.

Dexy

Ah now i still think if 20,000 people turned up in every city in the world that it would make a difference to George Bush and more's to the point saddam needs to be gotten rid of for everyone including the iraqi people's and every other nation in the mid-east region and the world and it aint gonna happen through negotiations now is it?

BrianD

Wow! N. Korea can now hit the west coast of the USA with a nuke (as soon as they get the first one off the production line) and nothing happens (oh there was talk of an aircraft carrier calling by for a look on the wayto the gulf) and Iraq produces a missile that can go an extra 30km (Dublin-Drogheda) and we are queueing up to invade.

saintgaz

A letter to the London Observer from Terry Jones (yes, of Monty Python).
Letter to the Observer Sunday January 26, 2003

The Observer

I'm really excited by George Bush's latest reason for bombing Iraq: he's
running out of patience. And so am I! For some time now I've been really
pissed off with Mr Johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street.
Well, him and Mr Patel, who runs the health food shop. They both give me
queer looks, and I'm sure Mr Johnson is planning something nasty for me,
but so far I haven't been able to discover what.

I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's up to, but he's
got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is. As for Mr Patel,
don't ask me how I know, I just know - from very good sources - that he
is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the street telling them
that if we don't act first, he'll pick us off one by one. Some of my
neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to the police? But
that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need evidence of
a crime with which to charge my neighbours. They'll come up with endless
red tape and quibbling about the rights and wrongs of a pre-emptive
strike and all the while Mr Johnson will be finalising his plans to do
terrible things to me, while Mr Patel will be secretly murdering people.

Since I'm the only one in the street with a decent range of automatic
firearms, I reckon it's up to me to keep the peace. But until recently
that's been a little difficult. Now, however, George W. Bush has made it
clear that all I need to do is run out of patience, and then I can wade
in and do whatever I want!

And let's face it, Mr Bush's carefully thought-out policy towards Iraq is
the only way to bring about international peace and security. The one
certain way to stop Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers targeting the
US or the UK is to bomb a few Muslim countries that have never threatened
us.
That's why I want to blow up Mr Johnson's garage and kill his wife and
children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll leave us
in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way.

Mr Bush makes it clear that all he needs to know before bombing Iraq is
that Saddam is a really nasty man and that he has weapons of mass
destruction - even if no one can find them. I'm certain I've just as much
justification for killing Mr Johnson's wife and children as Mr Bush has
for bombing Iraq. Mr Bush's long-term aim is to make the world a safer
place by eliminating 'rogue states' and 'terrorism'. It's such a clever
long-term aim because how can you ever know when you've achieved it?

How will Mr Bush know when he's wiped out all terrorists? When every
single terrorist is dead? But then a terrorist is only a terrorist once
he's committed an act of terror.

What about would-be terrorists? These are the ones you really want to
eliminate, since most of the known terrorists, being suicide bombers,
have already eliminated themselves.

Perhaps Mr Bush needs to wipe out everyone who could possibly be a future
terrorist? Maybe he can't be sure he's achieved his objective until every
Muslim fundamentalist is dead? But then some moderate Muslims might
convert to fundamentalism. Maybe the only really safe thing to do would
be for Mr Bush to eliminate all Muslims?

It's the same in my street. Mr Johnson and Mr Patel are just the tip of
the iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I don't
like and who - quite frankly - look at me in odd ways. No one will really
safe until I've wiped them all out. My wife says I might be going too far
but I tell her I'm simply using the same logic as the President of the
United States. That shuts her up.

Like Mr Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good enough
reason for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give the whole
street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and hand over
all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and interstellar
terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over nicely and say
'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to kingdom come. It's
just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in contrast
to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street.

Yours etc,
Terry Jones

o sleep

Originally posted by BrianD
Wow! N. Korea can now hit the west coast of the USA with a nuke (as soon as they get the first one off the production line) and nothing happens (oh there was talk of an aircraft carrier calling by for a look on the wayto the gulf) and Iraq produces a missile that can go an extra 30km (Dublin-Drogheda) and we are queueing up to invade.

that's an interesting point. why is bush using diplomacy on N Korea, a country who have admited to having nuclear weapons, while he is threatening force against iraq, who deny they have such weapons. i was pondering on this point (i have no life, and so i have little else to do) when i heard an interview with noam chomsky on the radio (although the interviewer - i could swear - kept on referring to him as norm chomsky) who made a very interesting point: America is using diplomacy against N Korea because N Korea have the capacity to defend themselves with nuclear weapons that can hit the west coast of america. however, in the case of iraq, they have no such weapons, and so know full well that they can go in, have a nice war (practice out all those new fangled weapons, secure the oil fields etc, finish off daddy's business) without any threat of retaliation.

it's really ****ing depressing.

by the way: rumours that the march today was something like 100,000, which is just ****ing crazy. i was sceptical of the figure as (a) it's hard to judge how many people are there when you're in the middle of the mass yourself and (b) organisers tend to embellish, but the gardai confirmed it (although this may be due to them wanting to slap themselves on the back for coping with such large numbers).

so ... yeah.

PiE

See the coverage of the London one? Something like 2m people apparently. Impressive.

Ken Livingstone's speech was class :]

It was pretty cool. Anyone else outside central bank til about 10pm. The drums rocked!

ferdi

c. 100,000 people.

i believe that says it all.;)

peace

ferdi

Achille

I would easily say that there was 100,000. I was watching the march go by outside the GPO from the start, and we joined in with some friends near the back after watching the march go by for over an hour. And it got wider towards the back.

Oveall, i think it was a big success, nice to see such a massive crowd and not one bit of trouble, that I saw anyway.