smoking in our locals!

The Reaper

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
Am sure there is a message in there somewhere dougal

I think Reaper that you will have a bit of surprise waiting for you in the new year. If I am in a pub and somebody lights up beside me, I will say it to the smoker and if nothing to the landlord and if nothing will demand my money back and leave. If he does not pay up the Garda Schickeloney will be on the way.

Anyway there will be no need for my brand of militaintism because if a landlord allows somebody to smoke on thier premises they will be fined along with the smoker. You'll find that nothing will make a landlord fall in to line as fast as threatening to take money off them.

true!
and u have the right to do wat u have to do but it cant happen in every pub no-way! we shall see in the new year! until then anyway "there aint no stopin us!"

The Reaper

MAYBE I SUD PUT A POLE IN!

delop

Let me start by saying that Im a smoker, Gave up for 9 months last year and am not really sure at what point I started smoking again, probably in a pub...

I can understand a person believing that smoking harms barworkers, Sure it does, but a lot of those guys will be out of a job in the bigger pubs, when there are no ashtrays to empty....

Ventilation, why dont pubs invest in expensive air con, I reckon its due to the problem in winter, So expensive to heat a premises while the extractor is pumping all the hot air out of the pub... I have no sympathy for pubs after finding out that they got together to apposed the license change that would give resturants a full drink license... Greedy Baxtards..

Well anyways if smoking gets banned for the reason of it being smelly and disgusting, I will have to start my campaign to get chewing gum banned....

Im just worried that a ban on smoking is another kick in the bum for our civil liberties... If the road deaths keep going up for driving, I wonder will the government ban driving on Bank Holliday weekends because its just too dangerous!

Maybe the government should insist on 50% of new recruits into the Gardai having a college education, because they are definately a danger to public health lately

Sorry I should stick to the point....

ChiGung

Guys, a lot of people would want to wake up and smell the coffee.
Smoking seriously shortens your life - it is seriously damaging to your heart, and fills your vital organs with hundreds of chemical toxins. There is nothing natural or good about smoking. It puts stress on the body and slowly breaks it down.

The argument 'It's my life and my body' wears a little thin when you are 50 and in hospital with cancer. Some of you guys should consider stopping for your kids (though they may not yet be born) if not for yourself.

Our laws and attitudes to smoking here are like that of a Third World Country, but they have lack of Education as an excuse.
Don't be another victim.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

The Reaper

well if smoking harms ur health dont go to a pub cuz so does the drink!!!!!!!! and the peanuts and crisps its all bad for your health so saying smoking is bad for ur health is a crappy point everything else in a pub does too!!!!!!!!!! next our pubs will be banned if this is kept up!

delop

daveirl,

You've just agreed with the whole arguement.

I didnt realise I was in an argument, I thought this was a discussion board?

Regardless of the cost, the Scientific studies don't show any improvement to peoples health so why bother.

What scientific Studies? I have my own 'scientific Studies' that prove if I give up smoking I would be in danger of turing into a whiney fu**er. So Next January I will commit to standing outside the pub with the smokers, wether Im smoking myself or not. scientific Studies have shown them to be a far more agreeable people.

Surely it's against my civil liberties to have someone harming my health.

I dont agree, you have the choice, you can put yourself in danger by going to a pub that people smoke in... but If I were to guess I reckon you have never contested this before the health minister started spouting his propaganda, but then again Im willing to be proven wrong

The Reaper

Well said delop
sorry nothing to add at the mo

FinoBlad

Anyone want 3 grand? or a Peugeot 206 even?

OK, if you smoke a pack a day during the week and 2 packs on the weekend days, thats 10 packs a week.
€6 x 10 x 52 weeks thats €3,120

Over 5 years, you've smoked a Peugeot 206

Well done!

delop

hmmmmmmmm.....

How about you let me spend my money, where and when I want to!

FinoBlad: is that you Mom? Im not living under your roof anymore Mom, we had this argument almost 10 years ago...

Well done!

hmmmm maybe passive smoking has an unexpected advantage that hadn't occured to me before...

FinoBlad

yes darling mommy here, wear a nice warm jacket and hat on 1/1/04 in case is -4 outside the pub, wrap up well darling!

K!LL!@N

Originally posted by The Reaper
well if smoking harms ur health dont go to a pub cuz so does the drink!!!!!!!! and the peanuts and crisps its all bad for your health so saying smoking is bad for ur health is a crappy point everything else in a pub does too!!!!!!!!!! next our pubs will be banned if this is kept up!

We're not just talking about harming the health of the individual. We're talking about that individual harming everyone around him. If someone is drinking a pint beside me, it's not doing me any harm. Similarly if someone is eating a packet of crisps, it doesn't affect me. But that same individual smoking beside me, is doing me harm.

I'm actually working as a barman at the moment and i have to say that smoke is definitely the biggest annoyance. And yes i knew that it would get smokey in the bar, but i need the money so i have to put up with it. Saying that people shouldn't work in bars if they don't like the smoke is ridiculous. It's a form of discrimination. Everyone else has a workplace free from smoke, so why can't barstaff?

As far as publican's turning a blind eye to people smoking, i have an easy solution to that. Any pub found in breach of the law should be slapped with a large fine, somewhere around the €10,000 mark for the first offence, double that for a second offence etc. Once one pub in an area gets slapped with a fine, it won't be long before the other pubs clean up their act.

Killian

delop

Originally posted by K!LL!@N

As far as publican's turning a blind eye to people smoking, i have an easy solution to that. Any pub found in breach of the law should be slapped with a large fine, somewhere around the €10,000 mark for the first offence, double that for a second offence etc. Once one pub in an area gets slapped with a fine, it won't be long before the other pubs clean up their act.

Wow Killian are you sure you are a BarMan? with a fair and even handed attitude like that you should get into politics, or maybe a taxi driver..

We're talking about that individual harming everyone around him. If someone is drinking a pint beside me, it's not doing me any harm.

So you are only interested in taking a stand on an issue if it affects you directly, and you dont think Drink harms anyone around them eh? Guess that smokey pub you are working in clouds you vision. I think you will find in Ireland that Drink does quite a bit of harm. Im no expert on this so if your are interested which I doubt it (as its not harming you), why dont you contact barnardos (thats a childerns charity) and find out how wonderful drink is.

I'm actually working as a barman at the moment and i have to say that smoke is definitely the biggest annoyance.

Well Have you considered as some people have mused over the past few months, that there may be less positions to fill in pubs after the 1st of Jan. Its possible that some hardcore smokers may have to choose between the pint and the Cigg, and with no ciggs in a pub there will be no need for ashtrays, so possibly less staff will be needed. Now dont get me wrong I do not wish for you to loose your job. I just believe a better accomodation could have been reached.

Now let me ask you as a bar man, Why is it not possible to have Smoking pubs and Non Smoking pubs? There seems to be a very vocal group out there who would love a smoke free environment. Why are there not Smoke free pubs littered throughout Dublin Cork and Galway?

And finally If there were smoking and non smoking pubs, but the Smoking pubs payed say an extra 20% on your wages as danger money. Where woudl you choose to work?

Thanx 4 The Fish

If I am in a pub then I am at risk from people who smoke and I should not be. This effects me, I have a vote, you also have a vote, use it. If you disagree with this legislation vote for somebody who will overturn it at the next election.

Now I cannot see what harm people not smoking in pubs is going to do to people who do or don't smoke, for a change smokers will have to suffer a bit of discomfort if they choose to go out.

Whereas I can see the harm and discomfort that people who don't smoke are subjected to by those who do smoke.

BTW I think you should check some figures, try firstly comparing drink and smoking related deaths in this country and then follow that up with a comparison on the amount spent annually by the government treating smoking v drink related ilnesses.

kirn

interestingly, the pubs will not be fined straight away.

in new york the smoking ban has been in effect since the new year, and the scene has developed so that everyone knows the pubs that allow smokers.

people then seperate pubs into smoking and non smoking pubs.

after a while some of the pubs which weren't doing so well as a nonsmoking pub became a smoking pub, in order to attract some fo the smoking crowd, and this trend has repeated all over nyc.

i wonder will that happen here during the period of grace before they start fining.

delop

I read that as well, about NY, I also read that residents of certain areas are very upset with the noise polition caused by people smoking outside pubs.... I think the people living in temple bar are going to be even more upset about their allready noisy situation...

I wonder will the health minister then ban talking in public places, for fear that passive conversations are keeping people awake at night, and adversly damaging their health...

Maybe Im just being childish...

K!LL!@N

Originally posted by delop
Wow Killian are you sure you are a BarMan? with a fair and even handed attitude like that you should get into politics, or maybe a taxi driver..



So you are only interested in taking a stand on an issue if it affects you directly, and you dont think Drink harms anyone around them eh? Guess that smokey pub you are working in clouds you vision. I think you will find in Ireland that Drink does quite a bit of harm. Im no expert on this so if your are interested which I doubt it (as its not harming you), why dont you contact barnardos (thats a childerns charity) and find out how wonderful drink is.



Well Have you considered as some people have mused over the past few months, that there may be less positions to fill in pubs after the 1st of Jan. Its possible that some hardcore smokers may have to choose between the pint and the Cigg, and with no ciggs in a pub there will be no need for ashtrays, so possibly less staff will be needed. Now dont get me wrong I do not wish for you to loose your job. I just believe a better accomodation could have been reached.

Now let me ask you as a bar man, Why is it not possible to have Smoking pubs and Non Smoking pubs? There seems to be a very vocal group out there who would love a smoke free environment. Why are there not Smoke free pubs littered throughout Dublin Cork and Galway?

And finally If there were smoking and non smoking pubs, but the Smoking pubs payed say an extra 20% on your wages as danger money. Where woudl you choose to work?

I'm entitled to my opinion in the same way that you are, lets not start insulting each other.

How can you compare the harm from secondary smoking to alcohol related physical abuse? They are in no way similar. It's not like smokers go up to people and blow smoke directly in their faces, if they did then you'd have a valid point.

Nobody is employed in a pub just to collect ashtrays. During the week, i have to collect the glasses and the ashtrays because there are no floor staff. At the weekends we have floor staff that collect glasses and ashtrays. These floor staff are still going to be needed to collect the glasses, as that's what they spend most of their time doing.

Publicans are in the business of making money. If you give them the option of running a smoking or a non-smoking pub, which do you think they'll want to run? They're going to run a smoking pub because they don't want to drive away customers. It wouldn't be fair to allow certain pubs be smoking and others be non-smoking.

I'll be honest with you here, if i had the choice of a smoke-free work environment or a 20% pay increase, i'd take the smoke-free option. That's just me though, perhaps others would accept 20%, i can't speak for anyone else.


Killian

TacT

all the argumentative crap about smoking a peugeot 206 etc is neither here nor there, as is the health issue. If you go out and do 2 grammes of coke every weekend you'll have done as much damage if not more so just drop that crap right away cus I'm sick of this apples and oranges crap everyone keeps coming up with.

As a smoker, yes I hate the idea, but condone it because we have no right to intoxicate other's while choosing to kill ourselves slowly or whatever way you want to portray the picture, it boils down to freedom of choice and much as you have the right to have your cigarrette, that right is lost if you are inflicting your habits onto other people who have the right and choice to not inhale the scum, which non-smokers currently do not have.

I'm certainly not hopeful that people will just smoke and get away with it and make the law next to useless because even if you don't like it, you should respect other people's choices in their lifestyle, if you can't do that much then you may as well feic off!

I'll certainly just bite the bullet, take my pack of ciggy's and go stand outside in the cold/sun or whatever weather it is...

Abdiel

It'll all end in tears !!!

In New York where a similar ban was introduced, pubs are reporting business down by as much as 80% ! How long before the vinters association here go nuts when they have no customers. Even the lottery has lost millions because pubs are now refusing to stock lottery tickets. The guy who introduced the bill has been warned he doesnt have a hope of ever getting elected again ! (Bet if we told Bertie that he's soon change his tune !!)

As if we havent got enough pissed off people wandering around the streets, whats gonna happen when you have 100's of people all out on the street pissed off because they have to stand in the rain smoking ??

And then there's the hidden "cost" of all this. Approx €4 from every pack of cigs is tax, so for a population of say 100, 000 smokers (seems like a conservative estimate !!) smoking 20 a day, thats approx €146, 000, 000 generated every year by smokers. If 50% of smokers quit because of the new laws, that an additional €75, 000, 000 that has to be made in tax from else where every year ! Tax hikes on the way I guess... doesnt seem like anybody has considered that, given that we have a growing national debt again, thats not particularly good news.

As for smoking and non-smoking sections, not sure that will work either. I remember in college our canteen has a smoking section and generally what happened was that when a smoker went to lunch in the smoking section, all their non-smoking friends followed them. So the smoking section was always packed while the rest of the canteen had plenty of spaces. Of course there's always the die-hards who insist they'd never go to the smoking section because its so smelly or some other ****.

If you walk through town you're going to smell like traffic ! you go to a pub and you'll smell like smoke or alchohol. What next, they'll start complaining about smelling of drink when they leave the pub ??

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by Abdiel
It'll all end in tears !!!
And then there's the hidden "cost" of all this. Approx €4 from every pack of cigs is tax, so for a population of say 100, 000 smokers (seems like a conservative estimate !!) smoking 20 a day, thats approx €146, 000, 000 generated every year by smokers. If 50% of smokers quit because of the new laws, that an additional €75, 000, 000 that has to be made in tax from else where every year ! Tax hikes on the way I guess... doesnt seem like anybody has considered that, given that we have a growing national debt again, thats not particularly good news.

es there are hiddne costs of smoking in pubs but then there are also going to be hidden savings in that the amount of people contracting lung cancer from passive smoking will drop and the burden of their care will be removed from the state. If 50% of smokers quit smoking because of this then I would imagine, and I can check iff you like, that the amount of money spent by the government treating smoking related illnesses will be cut by a similar percentage.

Lemming

[rant]
Well BOO-F*cking-HOOOO

wahhh wahhh

the publicans are gonna make a loss, over their already bloated prices.

You want how much for that pint? I want some PROPER ventilation installed like every other f*cking country does for the privelege of letting you rape my wallet Mr.Publican.
[/rant]

Seriously though folks, if you want to blame someone, blame the publicans. The government is only doing this because they know the publicans wont deal with the problem off their own back unless they're given an unmerciful boot up the arse.

As soon as they start feeling the sting of this, you can bet your arses that the publicans will be collectively be up in arms and lobbying like there's no tomorrow.

And all the government has to do is utter two magic words:

"Not until ....."


On a smokers-related note:

You'll get to feel the discomfort that non-smokers have to suffer albeit from the other side of the coin. Boo Hoo. Most of you [smokers] don't seem to give a flying f*ck about how we feel surrounded by smoke, so why should we show any sympathy?

Secondly, it might actually make you try and give up smoking and ... stop everything .. ACTUALLY make you healthier!
:eek:

delop

I still think the issue here is one of Civil Liberties, How much control are we willing to give up to the government, Do we want to become another U S of A. I hope not!

Im sure organisations like Ash Ireland were lobbying the Gov to get this pushed through, but what I cant understand is why Joe Public did not voet with his/her feet is the smoking was so harmfull in Pubs

Im not a health Minister, but if I were I woudl have different issues and at the top of my List would be 'Mental Illness' in Ireland, especially Depression.

I know its off the point but Did you know that over 10,000 people every year check themselves into Mental hospitals for mental health reasons, and those are just the people that are brave enough to seek help..

Abdiel

The point was not that politicians are going to lose money but that we will ultimately have to pay for it.

As a non-smoker are you willing to pay an extra 10% PAYE to make up the loss of cigarette revenue ? Let them smoke. Most will be dead by the time they're 60 and thus there's a saving on social welfare as well, a little bit morbid, but true !

And there's no way that the cost of treating smoking related illnesses comes anywhere near the amount of revenue generated. Thats just another of those little phrases they come out with every so often to try and convince people that they're acting in our best interests. Interesting that when they tell you some things people just assume its lies but when they say "this will reduce the cost of treating people through the health System" everyone assumes they must be acting in our best interests !!??

Have you seen the state of the health service ? Bed losses, staff cuts, hospital closures...They aint all smokers in there either ! In fact a recent survey showed that approx 30% of all patients at most were in for smoking related diseases. So sorry but no way those figures add up. Its just another case of govt. seeing something happening somehwere else and thinking "oh lets try that... lets build a stadium, lets give free 3rd level education, oh wait lets not, lets ban smoking in pubs.. oh wait maybe thats not such a great idea after all." By the time they have this "investigated" they'll have spent the entire years cigarette tax revenue by launching commissions to study the "feasability"of that, rather than putting it into the health service where they seem to claim it goes.