The Bin Laden Tape-Iraq Link My Foot

The Gopher

Does Colin Powell really think he is fooling the UN by claiming that the new Bin Laden tape proves some sort of alliance with Saddam Hussein?
For the record I do believe that Al Quaeda and Iraq have co-operated in the past,though most probably to a limited capacity.But this is ridiculous.
Any sane minded person can see from the transcript that Bin Laden is adressing the Iraqi PEOPLE.He asks them to commit suicide bombings in the name of Islam.He refers to Hussein as an infidel.He also apparently says that limited co-operation between the Iraqi government and Al Quaeda is permitted,but that is as far as it goes.
So basically the US is claiming that any country with muslims to which Bin Laden asks them to attack US interests has a government in league with Al Quaeda(any country that suits,mind you).I seem to remember a few speeches in which he asked muslims in Europe and the states to resist US oppression.This must mean that because Bin Laden addressed muslims living under Blairs rule in the UK that under the same logic it should mean that Blair is co-operating with Bin Laden.So therefore Europe,North America,Pakistan and all other friendly states are exempt from this new way of thinking.
Honestly,as much as I hate the liars and sh1t stirrers of the anti war camp I am getting increasingly sceptical of the Iraq situation.In the last week the US/UK has presented this ludicrous tape connection theory as well as an ancient and most probably out of date thesis by a university student as evidence.
Iraq has links to Al Quaeda.It has weapons of mass destruction.But making up facts and half truths is only alienating people with better sense.

bonkey

I caught some Q&A of a live conference on CNN this evening. Some British Politician (Minister?) responded to the question as to whether or not the argument of a link could still hold up while this tape more or less confirmed the vast religious and ideological gap between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

His response was, ummm, enlightening. He said that in another part of the tape, bin Laden (if it is him) stated that Iraq and Al Qaeda should put their differences behind them and co-operate. This, according to him, proves that they are co-operating, so that clearly the religious/ideological divide argument is no longer valid.

Now, if someone like...ooooh....Bush, or Blix, or Blair were to say :

"Iraq should put its WMD program behind it, and co-operate fully with the UN weapons inspectors", surely then this would mean that Iraq had already done so, and that the argument for against them was no longer valid.

I mean, its the same logic......

I'm curious. Either some prominent politicians really have a low opinion of the intelligence of the audience watching (perhaps rightly, who knows), or they themselves are surely possessed of not-too-large a piece of functional grey matter.

jc

DiscoStu

Does anone else find it curious that these "bin laden tapes" appear at just the right moment? britan and the us go on the highest alert and POW, what appears but a tape endorsing suicide bombings and the works surfaces.

the last time one appeard it was soon after bali and it threathened more of the same. it contents justified australia's hard line stance and pre-emptive strike rhetoric. then it turned out to be a fake.

The timing of this one is all to convenient considering that the majority of the world is totally unconvinced over the case for was on iraq, both the us and uk are still wiping the egg from their faces after the student evidence dossier fiasco and the major united nations players are out to stick a spainard in the works of the US/UK war machine. Who would have thought bin Laden, the evil terrorist mastermind would play into dubyas hands like that? what evil genius makes a simple mistake like that(except tell the hero his plan before leaving him to die in an overly elaborate yet easily escapable death scenario).

Tanks and soldiers in most major UK airports, massive police roadbocks, talk of "dirty bombs" and such buzzwords, panic buying of plastic sheets in the US to keep out nasty biological agents(oh i had a right chuckle at that one). FUD of the highest order finished off with a nice helping of Goldstein, sorry bin Laden to really get the people scared onto your side.

Hobart

I would imagine that it was released, by Bin Laden or supporters, to co-incide with the hajj. I believe it still has to be verified, I think.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

bonkey

Originally posted by DiscoStu
Tanks and soldiers in most major UK airports,

I'm fascinated by these pictures I'm seeing of tanks watching over people walking into and out of airports, onto and off planes. You see them rolling about, you see shots of intent gunners behind their 50mm (or are they smaller) top-mounted HMGs. All very impressive stuff....but what the hell is it for?

I mean - exactly what strategic or dettrrant purpose does a tank hold against a terrorist attack in an airport? Honestly? Not only is there no credible threat I can think of which would require such hardware, but the presence of so many civilians in the locality would mean that even using the tanks would be a no-no - the UK government could never affford the bad publicity of injuring/killing civilians and so on by using a tank as overkill.

Yes, I admit there is the argument for psychological impact, but please explain to me how someone willing to (for example) blow up a plane with explosives in their shoes which they have walked through an airport full of security would be offput by a tank outside which will be nowhere near them when they try anything.

Honestly...its just mediawhoring.

jc

Meh

Originally posted by bonkey
I mean - exactly what strategic or dettrrant purpose does a tank hold against a terrorist attack in an airport?

I've been wondering that myself. And even if the terrorists were scared off by the tanks at Heathrow, aren't there other international airports in the London area, with no soldiers defending them? Wouldn't the terrorists just hop on a train to Gatwick with their Stinger missiles? I think there is definitely a propaganda element to this...

DeVore

This stinks.

Bogeymen in Heathrow... ooooh be scared, the big bad man is out there honest... now support us going over to kick his "best mates" ass...


Also, does anyone REALLY think that Osama Bin Laden (who was cunning enough to spend 3 years developing a single, highly complex hit on the WTC) suddenly pops his head up in the middle of the world's political row about whether or not he's best mates with Saddam and says "oh yeah, me and Saddam, best buds! I'm with you all the way Saddie babes!"

I mean... COME ON!

DeV.

Shinji

Wouldn't the terrorists just hop on a train to Gatwick with their Stinger missiles?

You obviously haven't tried getting a train from Heathrow to Gatwick recently! Sod the terrorists, Railtrack have the UK over a barrel...

Bogeymen in Heathrow... ooooh be scared, the big bad man is out there honest... now support us going over to kick his "best mates" ass...

Well that's just it isn't it. Americans are suckers for this rubbish - ill-defined terrorist threats have them cowering under their mattresses in no time flat. Europeans, thankfully, are a bit more intelligent and cynical and I think most British people see right through this ruse.

It's patently ridiculous; the army presence is utterly useless in deterring any terrorist threat, as another poster has pointed out, and the decision to concentrate it in Heathrow and Central London when the UK is FULL of target-rich areas is a very coldly calculated one. Despite this, we have no accurate information whatsoever about the nature of the terrorist threat, beyond "there is a threat". Oh, and "it's as big as September 11".... Interesting, I thought on September 11 there hadn't /been/ any threat...

Thankfully the Brits aren't as thick as their cousins across the pond. Nobody here is buying bottled water and baked beans in bulk, or putting duct tape over their doorframes; and this desperate play-acting by a government that's gradually starting to realise how far they've gone down a very dangerous road without any public support is convincing nobody.

bug

Coincidentally I was having a discussion last night with friends about how examining the media should be brought onto the leaving cert curriculum. In school we had an excellent teacher who devoted much time to this subject in english class, seems it wouldn't hurt the Americans to bring it in too.
My initial reaction when I saw heard the supposed bin Laden tape was -all the world's a stage....and we are the audience, the timing is very conspicuous. And if there is a "specific" threat to the public from al Qaeda then wouldn't you think that the government would inform people of a specific plan of action in order not to create another WTC- Instead of parading tanks around heathrow. Its all very suspicious, I have to admit I am a consiracy theorist at heart however I do get the impression that there is a huge amount of propaganda in the media at the moment. I also feel that bringing bin Laden into the equation arises a direct emotional association with Sept. 11.

bonkey

Originally posted by bug
My initial reaction when I saw heard the supposed bin Laden tape was -all the world's a stage....and we are the audience, the timing is very conspicuous.

Oh, there is no question that the timing was well chosen. The question is by whom.

And if there is a "specific" threat to the public from al Qaeda then wouldn't you think that the government would inform people of a specific plan of action in order not to create another WTC

Unfortunately not. If there is a specific threat, then the less information that is made public about what the authorities know, then the better chance they have of preventing things.

Not very comforting to Joe Q Public, and his mates, but there you go - putting his mind at ease would involve telling the terrorists exactly what you know as well.

Unless.....

Instead of parading tanks around heathrow. Its all very suspicious, I have to admit I am a consiracy theorist at heart however I do get the impression that there is a huge amount of propaganda in the media at the moment.

Well, I tend to agree on the propaganda side, but my "Devils Advocate" side feels compelled to think that the tanks are a visible measure to make Joe Q and his mates feel safer, which allows the govt to keep schtum about the real nature of the threat (probably not even airport related), and thus give the public a sense of wellbeing, without tipping off the terrorists.

Course, I'd be the first to admit that my Devil's Advocate side is making a somewhat weak argument, as it presupposes that the British government believe that their public, at heart, is believing them, is pro-war, and is quite dim. I'm not sure I agree with any of these really strongly.

I also feel that bringing bin Laden into the equation arises a direct emotional association with Sept. 11.

Oh, absolutely. But again one must ask the question as to who is behind this.

Consider this possibility. Osama did record that tape. He wants to give the US "weak" evidence of collaboration which doesnt exist. Why? Because there is a good possibility that if he can manage things correctly, he can get the US to destroy (or at least cripple) Saddam's power base, but after that will be forced to withdraw if he can manage enough mayhem and havoc to swing public opinion away from staying there. You know - Vietnam or Mogadishu all over again. Bloody them up a bit...preferably by the common people rather than terrorists...and you'll have US politicians queueing up to say how it was not their soldier's jobs to die for someone else's nation, and that they had done enough and it was time to go home. And then, ooohhhh, look....power gap in a wartorn country who's people will be even further disillusioned with a west which - for the second time in a decade - has left them high and dry.

Yes, its by no means a guaranteed outcome, but hey - whats the worst case scenario for bin Laden...the US take Iraq, and it ends up remaining a nation where Al Qaeda have no real influence anyway.

Thus, it is very possible that the best possible thing for bin Laden is to help the US to continue spreading the Iraq/AlQaeda link theory....if it is not true, which I dont believe it is.

Conspiracy theories? Dont need em. Someone sent that message, and had a reason for doing so. There are a number of other possibilities other than the "proof of collusion" or the "US is behind it" ones.

jc

pickarooney

bleddy img insertion is a bit hit and miss, eh?

pickarooney

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