Stealth Taxes

Sparks

Originally posted by sovtek
I haven't really seen anybody mention how the government wastes the tax revenues they do receive.

That's what living in a cave on mars with your eyes shut, your fingers in your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs for fifty years will do to you

Like the whole Bertie Bowl thing. Three hundred million on something that was never even started. That and the fact that you have a world class stadium that only the corrupt GAA can use.

The corrupt GAA also happened to pay for that without state aid.
ie. it's private property, not owned by the state.
Frankly, as the GAA is the only sports body in Ireland putting forward a reasonably serious (I'd say professional, but there other meanings to that word) environment for promoting sport, I'd be more supportive of following their lead than of slagging them off for being successful...

I'm sorry but I have never heard of any country introducing a tax for the possesion of a credit card.

Except for us, obviously...

As well the bin tax is a serious joke as there is no viable recycling facilities AFAIK.

No, no, there were. They just closed them down is all :rolleyes:

I'd like to suggest that the government seriously needs to look at reduction in waste before another tax is even considered.

Agreed.

Put that with the profiteering, price-fixing and extortionate inflation going on, the Irish economy is looking at a serious nose-dive to come.

Yup. Time to learn swiss-german and get JC to help me find a flat

Victor

Originally posted by Sparks
The corrupt GAA also happened to pay for that without state aid.

Yes they did, they got at least £30m.

http://www.google.ie/search?q=government+funding+for+GAA+croke+park&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

sovtek

Originally posted by Sparks


The corrupt GAA also happened to pay for that without state aid.
ie. it's private property, not owned by the state.
Frankly, as the GAA is the only sports body in Ireland putting forward a reasonably serious (I'd say professional, but there other meanings to that word) environment for promoting sport, I'd be more supportive of following their lead than of slagging them off for being successful...

K I'm not gonna dwell on this point alot as a foreignor and not all that familiar.
As far as being successful (and this is anecdotal I admit)...well when you call games early so as to ensure a draw...so you can have another game where tens of thousands of people will pay to see...monitarily yes you are probably going to be successful.
That and the fact Victor brought up.

sovtek

Originally posted by Cork
All major political partys have suuported this tax.

That doesn't mean that it is warranted and wouldn't be necessary if Bertie and friends hadn't mishandled funds.

Cork

Originally posted by Victor
Yes they did, they got at least £30m.

http://www.google.ie/search?q=government+funding+for+GAA+croke+park&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

But how much did the GAA pay in VAT to redevelop Croke Park?

Fair play to GAA for having the vision that other sporting organisations are lacking.

Cork

Originally posted by sovtek
That doesn't mean that it is warranted and wouldn't be necessary if Bertie and friends hadn't mishandled funds.

I agree funds have been wasted. Benchmarking will cost the state dearly and not alone was it supported by government. It was supported by certain opposition partys and our scial partners.

But the government sanctioned it. I think the ATM tax is far more seriousv than the credit card one. It is a dis-incentive to have an ATM card.

People should be encouraged to open bank accounts and use ATMs.

parsi

Originally posted by TomF
If my memory serves right (and it often does not), our bin tax went from £90 (which, according to our nice little white, yellow and blue Charlie McGreevey free calculator is about €114.28) three years ago to €120 two years ago, to €180 last year and to €390 this year. In this household, we didn't see any easy progression from €180 to €390, it just jumped the whole amount!

Thats the County charge isn't it - the City charge is around €250. IN Clonakilty the UDC weigh the bins when they are being collected and your are billed by weight.

Last year we started recycling cardboard and our bin is now no more than half full. We also keep plastic bottles but there is only one place in Cork city for them - thats in the dump which is only open during working hours and half-day on a saturday. If the authorities are serious about recycling they should introduce kerbside recycling or at the least have more bring centres..

sovtek

Originally posted by parsi
If the authorities are serious about recycling they should introduce kerbside recycling or at the least have more bring centres..

I agree I agree and I agree...
I live in the city centre. I don't have a clue where the nearest bring center is and even if I did, how the hell am I going to get it there...the bus?
There is one recycle bin in front of the Central Bank (in Germany they are about every 10 steps).
If the government wants to reduce garbage, it needs to create the infrastructure for it (same goes with car taxes), otherwise it's just an excuse to tax.

sovtek

Originally posted by Cork
I agree funds have been wasted. Benchmarking will cost the state dearly and not alone was it supported by government. It was supported by certain opposition partys and our scial partners.

Sorry I'm not familiar with who all supported it. What is a scial partner?
I can tell you that most people that have a credit card, that I know, don't sanction it. Especially since it is one more drop in the bucket of skyrocketing inflation.

But the government sanctioned it. I think the ATM tax is far more seriousv than the credit card one. It is a dis-incentive to have an ATM card.

Well yes its a disi-incentive, so is the credit card tax (I'm sorry I'm still incensed by taxing borrowed money, it's usually the other way around).

People should be encouraged to open bank accounts and use ATMs.

I agree, especially considering all the crap you have to go through to just get an account...especially if you aren't from here.

Cork

Originally posted by parsi
Thats the County charge isn't it - the City charge is around €250. IN Clonakilty the UDC weigh the bins when they are being collected and your are billed by weight.
..

How does this work out cost wise?

Social partners included employers groups (eg. IBEC) , Most Trade Unions and some voluntary organisations.

parsi

.. I don´t know how it works out....

Cork

They are bringing in the same system in both Mallow & Fermoy from 2004. I think waste costs will rocket.

But I find it hard to believe the double taxation arguement used by the Anti Refuse Charges Brigade. They fail to mention that house holders had to pay rates prior to 1977.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
But I find it hard to believe...

I find it almost impossible to believe that in one single thread you have:

• criticised the rise in stamp prices and called it a "stealth tax"... .. while trying to justify the credit card charge solely on the basis that most political parties and IBEC and a few posers have supported it so apparently it may or may not be a "stealth tax" but it's OK because someone said it was (I'm listing these first two points together as they only make sense if you suffer from multiple personality disorder)
• Tried to justify the Irish government wasting money on the basis that "The UK government built the Dome". Well, that's all right then.
• Changed your basis for justifying the allocation of money to Croke Park from saying that they never got money and "The GAA has many members - that put in much effort" (whatever that means and with all that may imply) to "But how much did the GAA pay in VAT to redevelop Croke Park?" - which is a complete turnaround that you might not have noticed when you were spinning on your heel. Badly.
• Meanwhile in the post just above mine you say "I think waste costs will rocket" when two posts above that you happily revealed that you've no basis for making this claim when you said "How does this work out cost wise?", in other words, you've no idea how much it costs. If you went and bought a clue between these two posts you could have put in a "this is how much they charge in Irish towns that are doing this already" link. You didn't.

Do you spot a problem here or will you have to wait until you get older?

Cork

I believe that Government needs to ensure that the delivery of public services is done efficently and effectively. State Companies cannot reply on defacto price increases to cover up inefficencys or out dated work practices.

Governments do waste money. The UK dome was indeed a example of this. I think Bench marking here was a bad decision.

The GAA redevoloped Croke Park. At least the GAA have a world class stadium. The Government grant was revenue neutral as the GAA would be paying a similar cost on VAT to the government.

Entry Costs to landfills have more than doubled in a certain landfill site in County Cork. These costs are passed on to the consumers in this area. There is only a limited amout on landfill space. We seem to be producing waste like crazy. It is no surprise refuse costs are rocketing.

We need efficency in public services and we need responsible spending of tax monies. We don't need more taxes or more Stealth Taxes. We need better value for our tax €s.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
Governments do waste money. The UK dome was indeed a example of this.

You're doing it again. You can't even see what you're doing, can you?

Cork

I know that the UK governmnts Dome has nothing to do with the topic of Stealth Taxes.

But, wasteful government spending is a wastage of tax €s.

All governments waste tax money. What we need is justifying every cent of expenditure on public services.

What is the alternative to Stealth Taxes? If the government dropped Stealth Taxes tomorrow morning - Who or what is going to make up the differance?

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
All governments waste tax money.

I'll explain it in one-syllable words so:

What you have done is to try to say that it was not so bad that those in the Dail have wasted money as the kids in the land to the east of us have done this too. You have done this a few times since so I can guess that you have not seen this as so. In short, you say that is it in some way all right because the Brits have done this as well.



Basically you're trying in some manner to justify particular government financial wastage on this island on the basis that the UK government wasted money on the Millennium Dome. If you weren't doing this you wouldn't keep bringing it up under the all-embracing diversion of "all governments waste money" and instead would deal solely with the wastage embarked on by this government. I've never attacked taxes at all. Actually on more than one occasion I've pointed out that the action of rising government expenditure is unsustainable under a philosophy of keeping taxes low. Any five year old that can't afford a Playstation while spending his money on sweeties would understand this. He'll have to stop buying sweeties and save, look for a pocket money rise or borrow. The first two options are obviously preferable to borrowing. If he doesn't do any of these things, he doesn't get his Playstation and shouldn't really wonder why he can't afford it. Charlie McCreevy is not five years old. Which is a pity, as he'd probably understand it if he was. You don't understand what a stealth tax is, as I've already pointed out. You've not only failed to offer any evidence that this is not so: you've actually confirmed the hypothesis since.

edit: Incidentally, here's where it's become tradition for you to toss out "the opposition parties would be no better" in an attempt to drag the thing totally off-topic. Or to just continue on and completely ignore the entire topic so far.

Cork

Wastage of Government of Public monies is wrong. I gave the UK as an example that wastage of public funds is not unique to Ireland.

There is no excuse for the wastage or mis-spending of taxpayers money.

I actually agree with the bones of your posting. Some difficult choices will have to be made in the lead up to the next budget regarding tax & spending.