Legalise Cannibis?

delop

I know its an american book, but more information is more information.....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0713996587/qid=1053617316/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/026-1977371-3862020

Reefer Madness investigates the US marijuana business. As Schlosser remarks, the disparity between what citizens publicly abhor but privately adore is profoundly revealing. This is a quite extraordinarily absorbing book, written in the best tradition of American research-based journalism--Schlosser is an expert muck-raker, with an advanced sense of irony, preferring to let his facts speak for themselves rather than hammering his points home with expressions of outrage. The facts are quite astonishing enough. Here are a few examples.

The first section of the book reveals that marijuana is arguably the biggest cash crop in the USA, yet, as a product of the doctrinaire and entirely ineffective War on Drugs, possession of even tiny amounts is punishable in many states by mandatory life imprisonment--a heavier sentence than for murder.

He speaks of a case where in Alabama, a Headmaster was concerned that senors were smoking pot, he contacted the police, they sent an undercover officer to pretend to be a student, the officer went to a students house on 3 occasions and bout 1 ounce each time before turing in the kid. The Kid had never been in trouble before with the law. He was sentanced to 26 years in prison, without posibility of parole....


I dont think the argumnent should be wether it shoudl be illegal or not, It should be wether it should be decrimalised or not...

amp

Originally posted by Tiesto
there was a test carried out on some guy.
He drove without being under the influence.
and then he drove well stoned

turned out he was a lot better driver whilst he was stoned!!!
driving slower...

That'll be the paranoia as well:

"man is that a car or am I seeing spots? OMG THAT CYCLIST IS A GARDA!" etc.

I imagine reaction speeds to sudden suprises would still be vastly diminished, even with slowers speeds. But I digress. Back to the legalise arguement.

Catsmokinpot

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

by the way, i would not make such braod sweeping generalisations about dope and medical problems. i dont think you are a doctor, and i dont think youve been involved in medical research on the subject have you?

you are right about that, i haven't been involved in any research in to cannibis but i have been very interested as to why it was illegal. and, why so many people want it legalised so i did do my homework on the subject

as Abdiel and Tiesto have told you tonnes of medical and scientific research has been done in to the effects of cannibis now the point that i was making is:

people think that alcohol should be legal and it is, but the fact remains that alcohol is a type of poison and you can buy it over the counter in any place in ireland. so, why not weed? it is legal in other countries why not here.

by the way tiesto i saw that it was on a programme called fifth gear a few months ago very interesting and the british government actually did the same simulations with about 30 people and they were confused because the majority of results were the same as what happened that day. but TBH i still wouldnt advise anyone to drive stoned because their is a limit

and you say they become apathetic and lethargic TBH id rather be apathetic and lethargic than violent and depressed and anyway with abuse comes all of those risks as i presume everyone knows

but its not just about smoking it its about using it as a resourse many things can be made from hemp it is in and around 40 times stronger than cotton and if your going to keep it illegal at least allow supervised growing and treating of this material for use in clothing and other fabrication industries because when it is treated you cant smoke it anyway

and mercury tilt omg what are you saying? i dont understand im probably stoned or on e or speed. i have been offered it non stop by tonnes of ppl and never said yes. im "preaching" about an injustice. i live with 6 ppl who smoke and many of my friends smoke but only two have tried anything harder and that was before they started smoking so whats your point?

and i liked this also

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt

And cannabis cannot grow “anywhere”. Have you ever seen a frigging tree in the artic never mind a grass plant? Like most plants cannabis does require certain things in its life to help it grow up to be a nice weed for you to smoke. There is a reason people use UV lamps etc etc.

anyone with common sence would know what i was saying. it grows in any sort of climate that is not too extreme no in all fairness do you really think i was saying it grows in the arctic and make sure you spell it right nextime because an artic is a slang term for an articulated lorry

and ps smoking and drinking? most of you who smoke know that its generally not a good idea

lordsippa

Personally I don't drink or do any other drugs. I even hate mixing tobacco with dope <although I have to cause I don't have that much money>. Also the biggest stoner I know isn't lethargic. I think that that's more to do with the person than the use of pot.

Hemp IS legal. How it's grown to stop THC being produced has been mentioned before.

Pot isn't a gateway drug. As has been stated, hanging around people who do lots of drugs is. Be they dealers, or just friends. It doesn't matter, if you hang around people who do drugs you just MIGHT end up doing them yourself too. The odds are lowered however if you were to buy dope out of a shop and never see a dealer.

The main problem I have with pot being illegal though is that people get into some serious sh1t for something that a whole lotta people don't see as a problem. The fact that despite the evidence the jury can move to have them released as innocent of any crimes is a fact overlooked by most people <it was mentioned in Howard Marks book "Mr. Nice">. Anyone who does something like Heroin knows what they're getting themselves into, but people who do the odd bit of pot wouldn't consider it a crime really and neither would a hell of a lot of other people. So why should they be punished?

As for UK-Wolfs use of his personal experiences for comparision good on him. It at least showed that he's seen the difference between pot use and alcohol abuse, and I've seen the abuse of both and let's just say that alcohol is MUCH worse.

IMHO having pot illegal is like having dancing illegal. Dancing can cause harm <you could break a bone, etc>, dancing has no legitimate purpose <so WWM's argument as to why it shouldn't be legal holds>, and it's fun and enjoyed by a lot of people but isn't a massive national pasttime. Which is what pot use is. Well... maybe pastime is a bit hard a term but y'know what i mean...

And no, I'm sober and have been for some time. I AM however tired so I apologise for lack of coherence in this post.
</rant>

[edit]: Although you may drive safer when stoned your reaction speeds WILL be down so it still isn't a good idea. It IS a lot safer than driving drunk though. But still, wouldn't advise it (been in car with someone who was quite stoned driving and all was well but we didn't have any big surprises on the journey and he DID slow to 40 in the fast lane for a few minutes).

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

rubadub

"I even hate mixing tobacco with dope <although I have to cause I don't have that much money>"
-get a pipe! costs the same as 20 smokes.

"Hemp IS legal"
-explain please...

"Pot isn't a gateway drug"
this is now the unofficial garda stance too. just as milk is not a gateway to alcoholism even though most alcoholics started on it.

"The fact that despite the evidence the jury can move to have them released as innocent of any crimes is a fact overlooked by most people."
-is this true in ireland? i know in the states if a juror thinks somebody is guilty but doesnt agree with the sentence they can say they are innocent.

"I do think pot has its problems. Looking at alcohol and say "ohh well that’s legal" is not a good argument. Waking up and have a
drink is a bad thing. I still know people who get up and have a joint to kick start their day.
Now why do they do that?"
-why? maybe the same reason people get up and have a cigarette or cup of coffee or a aspirin after a night on the sauce.

i never understand why antidrug campaigners focus on drugs which ARE illegal shouldnt they be campaigning for cigarettes and alcohol and caffeine to be illegal?

""ohh well that’s legal" is not a good argument" why not? do you think alcohol should be illegal, if not why not? do you think it is
hypocritical? AGAIN, guilty till proven innocent. i would love if every drug on the planet was made illegal and then reviewed by the WHO to see if it should be legal or not. then you would be bored by all people drinking in sheebeens moaning about the fact that booze is illegal, all the arsehole smokers in cafes would be saying shut up moaning you gargle monsters just because cannabis is legal is no reason why alcohol should be, alcohol is a gateway drug etc etc

Catsmokinpot

yes i apologise i knew it was a bit stabbing to do that
the point i was making was if i was such a pot head as you say i would have missed that spelling mistake

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
I do think pot has its problems. Looking at alcohol and say "ohh well that’s legal " is not a good argument. Waking up and have a drink is a bad thing. I still know people who get up and have a joint to kick start their day.

plus "alcohol is legal" is a good argument. if something that has worse effects and is legal then why not something that has less effects. and if that isnt a good reason then i dont know what is

plus im not against alcohol in anyway i do not drink but i see no reason why others shouldnt, its their choice not mine oh but im so high i dont know what im saying do i? *pulls a whitener*ww)

amp

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
Ampie etc.. I will take my weeks ban like a man/child/wus as I know I have done wrong. But i would rather she picked on my points than my typo.

Someones typo's aren't really relevant. Neither are personal jabs.

/me jabs Merc's person with the letter Q.

Be good.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Catsmokinpot

plus im not against alcohol in anyway i do not drink but i see no reason why others shouldnt, its their choice not mine oh but im so high i dont know what im saying do i? *pulls a whitener*ww)

im sorry?
can explain that?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Catsmokinpot

lol whitewashman i was being sarcastic because mercury called me a pot head

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
So if it were legalised you have no problem with your 10 year old kid getting "stoned"? If you had a kid.

I is just wondering.

I mean… its harmless.. good fun.. You have a giggle. There would be no reason to stop kids being able to buy it?

WTF? when did kids come in to the equation?????

i mean what are you talking about??? of course it have to be illegal for kids to buy cannabis!! i really think you should go down to your local store and buy yourself some good old fashioned common sence and use it all the time

now with making it legal did you think i meant that children and small animals should use it???

as with any legal drug their is an age limit. or do you let your 10 year old kid drink a few shots of vodka before he goes to school?

even in holland and belguim as in any countries where any drug is legal their is an age limit

so please dont talk pants all the time i presume any adult would agree that children in generally do not have a very good ability to make their own decisions (don't get me wrong they are very smart but also very easily influence)

and its parents and propper enforcement of the law that decides how children turn out

lordsippa

If you're wrecked from the night before, taking a small joint will clear your head and fade off soon enough. Better than being stuck with a hash hangover. The problem is if you go beyond a small joint.

Oh, I have a pipe. It's just somehow nicer to do joints... y'know.. the whole sitting back not having to keep lighting it thing...

As for hemp being legal. Have you never seen clothes made from hemp? It's quite legal once it's grown under certain conditions.

And using the whole "this is legal so this should be legal" thing is silly but it's less silly than the "ok... so it shouldn't be illegal, but why should it be legal" argument. As I've said, I just object to the fact that they're making doing something that people don't consider dangerous, or in fact worth making illegal, a crime and there are nice people (and yes, there are scumbags too) suffering because of this. Which is, in my view at least, wrong.

And finally... CHILDREN!? WTF?! Where did this come from?! Let's put it this way, would you give a 5 year old an espresso? Hell would you give a 10 year old one?! No. But would you consider them overly harmful? Caffeine causes a big andrenaline rush, and can be dangerous. It also alters how you think and act. It may not be as extreme as marijuana in that respect, but the same principle of common sense applies. Ffs.

Kell

As I am the thread starter of this behemoth cyber child of dicussion I feel it's time I wade in again. My thread has a question mark at the end of it i.e. I am asking the lot of you whether or not you think it should be legalised or not. Only two pages ago did WWM ask someone else to give a compelling reason as to why it SHOULD be leagalised or not then we just got into semantics and spelling errors.

Why is it not a valid argument to say "alchohal and cigarettes are legal so why isn't dope?". How many f~{(2~}cked up substances are there in cigarettes? Lots, including stricknine and arsenic. So, from the camp of cigarettes are legal so why shouldn't dope be legal, can someone please explain to me why cigarettes that are known to have licenses to kill are legal yet dope is not.

Another dissappointing tangent that my baby has taken is into the realms of the extreme. A lot of you have cited examples of your ten plus a day joint smoker being a depressive and having no job and no life as opposed to your 2-4 joints a week smoker who is about as benign as a wall full of wet paint. My other point at the beginning was that someone on a drinking binge can oft be capable of killing someone with a broken bottle than your binge smoker who will "more likely" (not definitive) not be capable of moving after 10 joints. Yes some people do get agressive on dope, but just by my own experience I have never seen an agressive stoned person whereas I have seen plenty of agressive piss heads.

At this point in time we ae not going to see any advance in whether it is going to be legalised if there is someone saying "Give me a compelling reason as to why it should be legalised". Give me a compelling reason why football is legalised and why during the world cup I cant go to a pub and enjoy a pint in peace or if I happen to be vocal about the fact that I hate the sport in the wrong pub I might just have the sh~{(*~}t beaten out of me.

You're never going to get "compelling" reasons to legalise something. All thats needed is some proof that during x amount of experiments, x didn't die, x didn't want to kill someone and x didn't develop long term disorders. Those experiments have already been conducted and the results are already known.

So why isnt it legal?

K-

Trebor

because it is hard to tax as people can grow their own?

because we are a country that does nothing unless england or america have done it before us?

becasue people are afraid to enjoy themselves in this country as it is a sin to be too happy?

because it is associated with drug dealers and scum so that when people vote they vote for the candidates that say they will cut down on the drug dealers and the drug addicts without realising that most of their children smoke dope and that they would be included as drug addicts

echomadman

because it is hard to tax as people can grow their own?

You can brew your own beer too, but only hobbyists/ connoisseur do. If cannabis was legal i'm sure it would be the same.

AFAIK it is illegal to grow tobacco, but thats beside the point,

This is more an issue of people freedom to make educated decisions about what they want to do to themselves.
We are allowed to drink alcohol, provided we adhere to certain rules

The majority of people I know smoke or have smoked, they range from teenagers who do it to be cool for a while and then stopped after a while, to middle aged professionals in a wide variety of jobs.

I know people who cant smoke, it makes them feel ill/uncomfortable . so they dont. they made the choice, nobody decided for them.

I know people who hang out with utter "stoners" and don't smoke at all, their choice.

I know people who are lazy and apathetic, but this was an inherent trait, they are the same people who will binge drink to the point of blackouts/collapse. and in my opinion they are better off being lazy and apathetic than drunk, incoherent and a danger to themselves and others.


want to reduce crime statistics and free up garda man-hours to deal with more serious drugs/issues ... decriminalisation and/or legalisation is a big step.

I personally have taken a broad spectrum of drugs, mostly out of innate curiosity

I dont bother anymore, but it wasn't cannabis that led me onto any of them.

The fact that the same guy who sold the cannabis, also sold all these other substances did,

again, its an over repeated arguement but taking it out of the hands of unscrupulous scumbags will stop any perceived "gateway drug" effect

DeVore

The worst thing I can say about hash is that it makes you comfortable, complacent. You dont want to change things around you and you just feel content with what you have.

Thats grand for a while but long term you wont achieve your full potential.

As Stan from South Park said: "I really really wish you had just told me that at the start".

Hash doesnt lead to hard drugs... it leads to something *far* worse... it leads to selling beanbags in Mother Red Caps Saturday fair.

DeV.

STaN

It should be decriminalised not legalised in my opinion to free up hands to tackle class A drugs.

I can see the arguments for legalising it but i think a balance can be found through decriminalising it as i am not sure that it is a good idea for it to be freely available to anyone, including kids.

From what i have seen it destroys motivation and inspiration

Doodee

Originally posted by DeVore
The worst thing I can say about hash is that it makes you comfortable, complacent. You dont want to change things around you and you just feel content with what you have.

Thats grand for a while but long term you wont achieve your full potential.

As Stan from South Park said: "I really really wish you had just told me that at the start".

Hash doesnt lead to hard drugs... it leads to something *far* worse... it leads to selling beanbags in Mother Red Caps Saturday fair.

DeV.

yes and no dev, it depends on the person, fact is that alot of people will start off on hash or weed and move onto harder things cause of the sensation they get from these drugs.

but in the end its down to the person, also, if it were legalised i would like to see a quota on teh amount a person should recieve for medical purposes. To much of a good thing is always bad, and can lead to people considering stuff like suicide if on a bad come down from it.

it really is a sorta blurry line, it all depends on wheither people will abuse the right to be allowed to enjoy the leaf.

rubadub

Originally posted by lordsippa
If you're wrecked from the night before, taking a small joint will clear your head and fade off soon enough. Better than being stuck with a hash hangover. The problem is if you go beyond a small joint.

hash hangover? dont smoke any so called cannabis product that gives you a hangover. most hash here is crap, contaminated with all sorts of crap. another reason to legalise it- public health. most heroin "overdoses" are actually deaths caused by contaiminants not because its a pure product (which will kill too since most are so used to bad quality). if people injected hash im sure there would be lots of deaths from contaminants too. thats one of the reasons prohibition didnt work, people sold industrial alcohols as booze. the fact that cannabis is so safe and non addictive is one of the reasons it is easy to keep illegal

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Doodee

not a situation of cant, but more so that they would have easier access to it, like ciggies. just because u have to be 18 to smoke doesnt seem to stop all the kids round my area from smoking, these a kids as young as 8 years.

I dont think that legalisation in this country would work, cause like any other substance that is used for a good time it would only end up being abused. that said, people are already abusing it.

also, the stress relief thing behind hash?
if u start depending on it to get you to sleep or to do whatever then your gonna end up with a problem. Dependance is the problem with its legalisation.

then again, as always, its down to the person, and not every leaf is from the same bush.

rubadub

Originally posted by Doodee

also, the stress relief thing behind hash?
if u start depending on it to get you to sleep or to do whatever then your gonna end up with a problem. Dependance is the problem with its legalisation.

just like sleeping tablets and nightcaps. or morning coffee, i know many people who cant think straight without a morning fix of caffeine.

as for Mercury_Tilt kids can use cannabis just as they CAN drive cars, inject heroin etc. i know parents who give their 2 year old caffeine drinks which i think is appalling.
do you think stanley blades should be illegal? if you dont would you give them to a kid to use?

wheres all the common sense gone.....

Doodee

just like sleeping tablets and nightcaps. or morning coffee, i know many people who cant think straight without a morning fix of caffeine.

if they depend on them to the extent that their heads believes that they cant sleep or wake up without them then it is a problem, just ask your doctor.

o yea, just came accross this, thought I'd post it here.


http://www.freevibe.com/mj/index_pop.asp?act=2&type=1

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Dawg

Dependance is the problem with its legalisation

Just going on personal experience I don't agree with this. As it stands, most people I know smoke hash, some more than others. Some are cigarette smokers, some aren't. Some only smoke pipes/small bongs, others (myself incl.) prefer sitting down with a spliff and cup of tea. Out of all these people, only one person springs to mind as being dependant on it. By that I mean moans like a bitch and gets depressed when an expected deal falls through and he has to go without for a bit, so its not exactly a life altering dependance.

Mr. Tilt, I wouldn't say its completely harmless, and seeing as most people smoke it then its definately not harmless. But I think if people want to use it then they should be educated on its effects, good and bad and be allowed to make that choice. Kids are not responsible enough to make those decisions themselves. Hence I wouldn't allow kids hash for the same reason I wouldn't allow them alcohol or smoking cigarettes.

Many 14/15 year olds are already smoking hash. Some are selling hash, mostly to their 14/15 year old mates. Legalising it would take it out of their hands, and make it more difficult for them to get. Not impossible, just more difficult.

rubadub

Mercury_Tilt- i have never claimed cannabis is harmless and would disagree with anybody who does. i dont think crisps, coke, doughnuts, chocolate are harmless and many would prefer if their child did not eat them and was never offered them. of course there is a respiratory risk from inhaling hot smoke from combusting plant materials, smoking lettuce is harmful too but it is not a reason to make it illegal. most medicinal users and many recreational users eat or vapourise cannabis. other effects some users have are paranoia and short term memory loss. i think most people use the term "harmless" very loosely and as a relative term comparing it to crack or alcohol.

"So In a round about and quite bizarre way you are saying kids cannot use cannabis? But you don’t say why."
-as i said before kids physically CAN use cannabis but i dont think they SHOULD. i personally dont think people should be allowed to take psyhcotropic substances (inculding caffeine, alcohol and nicotine) for recreation until they are 25+ i still think the mind and body is maturing until around this age. if some lunatic held my child ransom and said they were going to force them to take either alcohol, tobacco or cannabis i would choose cannabis. a childs body and mind are still developing and any toxic/psychotropic substance will have much more pronounced adverse effects/trauma on their body/mind than on a fully grown adults body, thats why we have over 18 film certificates. high drug doses can have huge psychological effects on people especially non-adults, ideally i would like to see ALL drug users forced to go to classes on the true effects of drugs and let them make up their minds for themselves if they want to try it. childern tend not to think to the future much or about their health or well-being. if a kid or adolescent could choose what they ate for a year many would probably pick a steady diet of junk food. i would not think they would handle drug use responsibly either. memory loss is also not a good idea for kids who are learning/developing all the time. most student users stop/cut-back smoking coming up to exams so they can absorb what they study, just as many give up the booze for a while.


"And yes I would let a kid of reasonable age use a Stanley knife.. provided it knew what it was and it did."
-i agree. the difficulty is determining a reasonable age and how to be sure they "knew what it was and it did" just like drug use.

i do believe hunting down and prosecuting cannabis users is a waste of police/court time and prison space, and hence taxpayers money. it costs a fortune to keep somebody in prison and who pays?? US! who profits from the drug money -the dealers. instead of the government making a fortune on tax they spend a fortune prosecuting people. why do you think they stopped prohibition in the states?

"So....Can you answer my question without bring up beer etc?"
- can you make a decent reply to any of my previous posted questions which compare cannabis to beer? i dont think you can and that is why you keep demanding people stop bringing it up. it is comparing like with like, what is so wrong about that? tell me why paracetomol should be legal BUT dont mention any other food/plants/dugs in your argument and then ill give you some answers without mentioning the flaw in your argument, beer. it is like having an argument about women not being let into golfclubs and saying "stop bringing up the tired old argument that men are allowed in, i want to know why women should be let in".

rubadub

Originally posted by Doodee
if they depend on them to the extent that their heads believes that they cant sleep or wake up without them then it is a problem, just ask your doctor.

o yea, just came accross this, thought I'd post it here.


http://www.freevibe.com/mj/index_pop.asp?act=2&type=1

my point exactly! if some people choose to abuse legal substances to a point where it becomes a "problem" should that substance be made illegal for anybody to use?

D nominater

is there any drug related point in smoking lettuce?
Does rubbing the inside of a banana skin on a cigerette make you stoned the first time you do it ?, heard it did but i'd say that's a load of crap..
When was hash illegalised?

RapierX

3 main legal drugs are alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are legal for a reason.

1. Alcohol - relaxes nutcases, only serious party drug and short term escape from reality to an extent. Every culture has a drug like this. If your in the rainforest you'll eat/smoke some herb that has similar effects.

2. Tobacco 90% of schizophrenics smoke. Devil finds work for idle hands. Cigarettes occupy you, stimulate you to do more work too.

3. Caffeine - if they made this drug illegal the world would be ****ed.

A lot of people in mundane jobs smoke and drink tea/coffee heavily, gets you thru the day. Hash is even better if you are in the circumstances that allows it and to no real detrimental effect of your work. The government / your boss doesnt care if we all kill ourselves using substances to get through the day as long as the work is done and you dont effect the horde too much.

lordsippa

Wrong. The government is obliged to prevent us from harming ourselves (which is why for example, suicide was illegal for so long). Which I think is a bit silly. If we wanna screw ourselves up, why not? But alas, that's not how governments are allowed think. Except in the case of alcohol and cigarettes, which in legal terms begs the question of why not cannabis when these precedents have been set? Unfortunately this road of thought leads to the government eventually freely distributing crack, so it's not a particularly valid line of argument. <sigh> It's all so silly and complicated, and I for one don't know why.

Catsmokinpot

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt



So In a round about and quite bizarre way you are saying kids cannot use cannabis? But you don’t say why. I am asking why kids can’t use cannabis. So far nearly every pro legalise head has said it’s harmless. You just get a high out of it. So why not kids? And let’s not bring two year olds into it. They would drink bleach if it was left unattended. I was more thinking of young folk who are aware of what they are doing and are seeking the effect of the product they are taking.

And yes I would let a kid of reasonable age use a Stanley knife.. provided it knew what it was and it did. I think I first used one when I was about 7 or 8. I first nearly slit my thumb off when I was 19 and working in a factory….. to answer your question.

Always cut away from yourself…..

So....Can you answer my question without bring up beer etc?

Why would you not let a kid who knows what cannabis is... take it. Why are you putting an age restriction on a harmless drug?

"bizarre way"

in what bizarre way would i have said that children couldnt use hash. does the words [no they cant] sound "bizarre" to you

my god man what are you saying make sence. did i say give it to children?? did i?? did i even bring it up in conversation and whats this clearing things up?? are you just trying to wind me up? your sarcasm is not impressing me.

i mean arent you proving that beer is a harmfull drug? i mean you know damn well yourself why kids cant drink beer or take coffee or smoke a joint. so, ive figured it out.... your a windup merchant who has nothing else to do than to just wind people up with such pointless arguements and use sarcasm to fool people people in to thinking what you say is making any sence

[edit]:i mean i really dont get your angle and not many people who have posted in favour of legalisation would say hash was harmless and plus my argument was that hash was no worse than alcohol not harmless

amp

Ok, let's all just calm down now. Cheers.

rubadub

the whole illegality of drugs due to public health is a misnomer. i can chop my legs off but am not allowed inhale illegal smoke, however i cant sit in a public house free of smoke. i believe you should be allowed to do what you want to your own body. if i chop my legs off it is not illegal but if i chop somebody elses legs off i got to prison. people are allowed to smoke and destroy their lungs (which i have no problem with) but nothing happens if they destroy my lungs too! if i went into a bar and chose to inhale sarin gas but others were subjected to my "enjoyable habit" i would be arrested. i think smoking cannabis, tobacco and any other drug or pastime which poses a health risk to those around you should only be allowed in your own home or in a dwelling specifically designated for that purpose. a public house is for drinking not smoking, there could be "smoking houses" setup and i would have no problem if people drank alcohol in them since it doesnt harm the smokers on the premises.

"Except in the case of alcohol and cigarettes, which in legal terms begs the question of why not cannabis when these precedents have been set? Unfortunately this road of thought leads to the government eventually freely distributing crack, so it's not a particularly valid line of argument."
-i see nothing wrong with relegalising all plants. if you could buy crack in a pharmacy would you? i see cigarettes in nearly every shop i go in and i am able to resist buying them. the UK have got it right and i hope we follow suit. if you read between the lines of the current UK cannabis laws the real way i see cannabis relegalisation happening is through the EU.

lordsippa

Erm.. they ARE banning people smoking in bars. It's been quite controversial. Doncha know. :ninja:

Corega

Legalise it, set up specialist shops that sell it, tax it, but not to the extent that it would be cheaper to buy it from a dealer. A huge advantage would be that tourism would increase. Drug dealers would also have a large part of their income taken awya from them. The government may have to put a restriction on it, such as; the consumption of it would have to be after a certain watershed time, this would prevent people going into work stoned, driving stoned (although it may actually improve your driving) etc.

s0l

I guess you could say, I am the Walrus, ko ko ka chu, as it were. but then again I am also the egg master, i say this to make you think i am stoned. this is what it could be like if you legalised this evil evil drug, because you see, the walrus may be speaking to me, ah hah! there i did it again, i thought you might have dropped your guard, my fellow agents and i for the GOOD HOLY FATHER (which to whom i am ignoring with his dealings on creating this "weed") will insure that this thing will never be legelised again!
*runs off to play with the fairy queen*
ah hah! there i did it again!
Now, go to sleep people, for I am in Control!

littlehedgehog

I read to about page 5, and then got one hell of a headache...
There are so many fake statistics, screwed up ideas and narrow minded people posting.
Imho - one major reason why it won't be legalised/decrim. is because it will be so hard for the government to tax it. Anyone with the right equipment (which isn't that expensive) and a few seeds can grow it. They won't be able to tax that and because they are greedy bas****s we won't be seeing any move towards legal./decrim. soon.

Mercury_Tilt

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Spenguin

Just because alcohol and tobacco are worse doesn't mean cannabis should be legal. You don't fix anything by adding a smaller problem which is supposedly justified by the fact that there are bigger problems in the world. Cannabis I hear makes people paranoid, and being extremely paranoid myself I know how much that sucks, and as for the moron who wants to let children have soft drugs, I hope that he'll never have or be remotely near children.

RasTa

We could go on forever and ever on the same point.But my two Cents is,
That in no way should it be a ILLEGAL offence to smoke Cannibis.
I think everyone agrees with that ?

Mercury_Tilt

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Kwizatz Anorak

Decriminalise it. Specail licenses needed for hash bars, just like coffee shops in Amsterdam. I hear that they're having a hard time of late with the new EU smoking regulations and half the coffee shop has to be non-smoking... The price we should have to pay. In terms of smoking, I say treat it the same way as smoking anything, only in certain sections but not in every pub in the country, management reserves the rite and all that.
Tax the sh1t out of it, I don't care. At least it would be our own criminals in power getting the money as opposed to the middle eastern drug lords who use the money for who knows what.

Like a lot of people have said, there's be less rowdiness and fights on a Saturday night if ppl could just chill with a spliff instead of getting anxious for the nitelink to arrive.

I say de-criminalise or legalise or whatever the PC term is for it

irishguy

if you legalise it then you have to pay huge amounts of taxs so no

Kwizatz Anorak

But we would benefit from the taxes, not just the druglords!
The price would probably be similar anyway, everybody who participates in smuggling has to be paid, you could call that the tax if you like. So effectively we're already paying tax, it just doesn't go to our government

irishguy

ok compair the cost and size of a 50 bag of weed in Ireland to the cost and size of it in amsterdam. you get about 8 times + in amsterdam

Kwizatz Anorak

Who do you think is to blame for that? The Government? There is no regulation here so dealers can charge whatever they want. If we were allowed legally to buy it, prices would be a lot more competitive, like in Amsterdam....

irishguy

wait that last statement i made doesnt make sense [from my argument point] dam it sure what the hell legalise it it would make life more fun

Kwizatz Anorak

Now you're talkin, Light 'em if you got 'em.

lordsippa

Y'see... I think the thing that gets at people most is that you get arrested for smoking dope. It's not that it's harmful and should be endorsed. Nobody's <well, ok probably somebody is> asking for that. That's stupid, but in fairness most people make an educated decision to use marijuana <i know i did>. You know about the negative aspects to its use but decide "what the hell"... It's just the arresting thing. It's just.. well... I guess it's just a tad excessive, or so I feel.

AngelofFire

Yeah i dont see why cannabis should not be legalised. it will remove the incentive for cannabis users to turn to harder drugs. Because it wont be sold by dealers it wont be associated with herione and other hard drugs. this works- the netherlands has the lowest percentage of cannabis users in europe. Taxes generated from cannabis could be used to set up treatment programmes for heroine addicts.