What is the best old beetle engine?

Bios

Hiyas,

I know this board is usually about modern cars but there aint a classic car board so..

I'm about to begin my new modding project, its a bit mad to say the least

I'm gonna put a vw bug engine in the back of my fiat 126bis and slap a new carb/turbo on it

What i need to know is what bug engine?
Maybe i should use a completely diff engine?

Main reason is its rear wheel drive like the 126 and will need less modding to fit it.

Any ideas? or should i commit myself today?

thx

Adam

P.S. For all the doubters http://www.spagweb.com/v8mini/

JohnBoy

The 126 is rear/mid engined isn't it?

in that case it's simply a mtter of what engine/gearbox will fit.

And, if you were willing to sacrifice your back seats......

with fabrication, any front wheel drive setup could be stuck in there. all you need to do is add a fixed link where the steering arms would normally go. Just make sure you get a brake bias box if you go down that route as you'd have some pretty good stoppers on the back.

If you're feeling adventurous, and have a little cash on hand, an ideal setup would be a crashed punto sporting. only a 1.2, but it's well tuned and has a 6 speed gearbox, so in a light car should still be a laugh.

would be very compact too.

John

(or an alfa boxer from some mid/rear engined yoke)

Spunj

Hmm you are in for a lot of work!
The main problems if you decide to put a modern water cooled engine in the back will be :
1. The cooling aspect - trying to hook a radiator for a water cooled car somewhere near the front and running pipes etc back to the engine at the rear. I saw several people who put engines like Alfa boxers and Fiat Twin cams hanging off the back of beetles, so it can be done... The beetle engine may be easier in this respect.

2. Clearance - I believe the engine compartment in them 126's is higher up than a beetles. Putting in a modern engine from a front wheel drive involves turning it 90 degrees to line up with the gearbox. In a tiny car like a 126 it may be sticking out pretty far. (Not 100% sure if the gearbox points backwards in them like a beetles?) Also adapting to the gearbox/clutch will be tricky...

I'll leave it there for now, as to the original question of the best beetle engine, I would recommend the twin port 1300 engine, should be closer to the gearing in the stock 126 gearbox and it was a lot pokier than the 1200 and 1500 single port versions.
(Easy to tell if it's single or twin by looking at the tubes going on to the head from the inlet manifold. The other twin port version was the 1600, it's difficult to tell them apart though.)

Kali

Aye the 1300 and the 1600 are both wonderful engines and very easy to work on and parts are readily available..
I know one or two VW Restorers in the UK (who also tune the 1300 for British Formula Vee), one of whom chopped a beetle in two and stuck a motorbike (big long chopper) front on it to create a trike, bloody thing is absolutely mental (so light without the Beetle front axle).
Anyway enjoy the project, sounds great, although I wouldnt' worry about the turbo end of things just yet (both the 1.3 and 1.6 are well capable of being tuned to around the 100bhp level).

Gmodified

how about 126 with 1.9 tdi engine chasing Evo VI

Download could be slow file size 1.7MB Avi
http://vega.ifj.edu.pl/maluch/download/126p_vs_EvoVI.avi

You can also put 2 VW bettle 1600 cylinders with pistons to the existing engine which is the best option.
It will require slight modification and oil cooling but you get 34BHP

Bios

Thx guys, u lot seem to know your stuff!

Here is loadsa info on the little beast

http://www.carsfromitaly.com/fiat/126.html

Ok here is the plan so far, get a cuppa tea ,any input would be greatly appreciated.


Engine:

The original is a rear engine, mounted horizontally, rear wheel drive, water cooled 704cc engine (26bhp @4500rpm)



The vw beetle 1300 twin port 1973-75 sounds like a good idea (if a bit old, Are all old beetles air cooled?) as I can create a frame from box iron etc to match the mountings and keep the gearbox.

What about an Alfa Boxer engine??

I’m thinking about putting a vent on the roof, like pro rally cars, for the intake.

The rear seats will go, obviously.

Still have to research exhaust systems.


Steering rack:

Not to sure about this myself, what is the vw beetle front rack like, would it suit?


Brakes:

Hopefully I can get a kit to upgrade the rear drums on the beetle to good discs. Regards the front, if I use the beetle steering rack, hopefully I can upgrade these as well (does the bug have discs on the front?)


Suspension:

Not to sure what would suit a car of this weight (620kg as it is now). I’m sure it will gain an extra 100-200kg with engine and mods.


Cooling:

The fiat engines has the radiator mounted at the side. But I think it would be a good idea to mount it at the front and have the 2 water pipes run between the seats under some kinda cover to the back. I will have to get a grill fabricated for the front.


Strengthening:

It will need a lot of it . Full roll cage, chassis, doors, front end, engine bay. I know a guy who builds rally cars so hopefully he can sort me out on this bit.


Interior:

Gonna strip everything. Slap in a pair of racing bucket seats. Will have to think about this one some more.


Extriorer:

Strip all the plastic and bumpers. I have a bloke you will fab custom bumpers and trim from fibre glass.

Was thinking MG metallic blue with a white strip down the middle

Gmodified

Well. original Fiat was aircooled and simple. There is 600 and 650cc version which could be upgraded by sticking vw1600 cylinders. If you keep original aircooled engine you will be able to get NCT and insure it as 126. Also you can buy modified camshaft which will give you more bhp.



Check out 126 with VW Corrado G60 engine.

Bios

but if you read my post, its the fiat 126bis aka mark 2. 704cc water cooled. I intend to chuck the original engine, i wanna have to wear a 5 point harness, helmet and gum shield to drive this thing when its finished

Actually, what is the story with modded car insurance? apart from it beeing crazy money

Adam

BrianD3

Why limit yourself to Beetle engines (hate Beetles myself) What about something like a Hillman Imp engine which is also rear mounted. Much more advanced than a Beetle engine - smaller (875 cc) all alloy, water cooled and very tunable. Haven't a clue how well one would fit in the 126 but might be worth considering and could be an interesting project.

Brian

Gmodified

I don't think you will insure it. Definately not with the engine 2X the cc of the original car(if you planing to stick beetle motor).

Check it out before you start.

For example hibernian will insure car which is

Is less than €65,000 in value and less than 3500cc. Certain restrictions may apply.

Is not a car vanette, kit car, sports car, convertible, gti, Vtec. Is a right hand drive model and not converted, adapted or modified in any way.

kadman

Forget the beetle engine, and stick in a a vw variant fast back engine, basically the only difference is the oil cooloing tower is horizontal on this engine, and gives you more room in the engine bay. Or go the distance and put in the vw 411 le or the vw 412 , fuel injected 2l lumps GRRR.
If you come across a hillman imp engine, dump it .

kadman

IrishRover

BrianD3 wrote:

Why limit yourself to Beetle engines (hate Beetles myself) What about something like a Hillman Imp engine which is also rear mounted. Much more advanced than a Beetle engine - smaller (875 cc) all alloy, water cooled and very tunable. Haven't a clue how well one would fit in the 126 but might be worth considering and could be an interesting project.

Brian

Yeah, I think the engine is called a Coventry Climax and was originally designed for use as a water pump in fire engines. It's got a reputation for being a very solid and reliable engine. I saw a 1974 Sunbeam Imp from the Alan Fraser Racing Team that had a 998cc (rebored I guess) engine which developed 125HP @ 10,000 rpm!

Eoin

I know this board is usually about modern cars but there aint a classic car board so..

There actually is a sub-forum for classic cars, check the top of the page of the motors page.

Eoin

unkel

eoin_s wrote:

There actually is a sub-forum for classic cars

There is now, but there wasn't two years ago when this thread was started. Why did you open this again, kadman?

Interceptor

It would be interesting to know if after all that talk whether Mr Bios actually did anything with this car. The thread being given mouth-to-mouth mightn't be a bad thing if the car is nearly ready for the road.... Me doubt it though

'c

kadman

Sorry Bye

Kadman