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Broadband

Agent7249

What download speed range are we talking about? 1.5mbps?
I know its alot and if its 1.3 what dif would that make but if ure like me and would want it at its most, you would probably want to know what speed it would be.

What price range would it be per month? for normal people like me, not business people.

When can we see it established in the south west at a cheapish price?, ie cheap flat rate (specifically Limerick)

What types of telecom companies will we see, apart from Esat BT and Eircom?

I'll ask a few more questions when I can think of em, and if ye have the answers

Oh one more thing what does it take to become a member of IOFFL, would registering to the site be sufficient?

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SkepticOne

Originally posted by Agent7249
Oh one more thing what does it take to become a member of IOFFL, would registering to the site be sufficient?

Yes, register on the site.

Dangger

What download speed range are we talking about? 1.5mbps?

What price range would it be per month? for normal people like me, not business people.

Eircom has branded ADSL as I-Stream. Currently Eircom's "residential" offering is 512kbps downstream / 128kbps upstream and is priced at €109.99 per month with a once off installation fee of €200. It has a cap of three gigabyte of data download per month, and a charge at 4c per megabyte after that. Their adsl site www.adsl.ie states "Eircom reserves the right to charge 3c ex VAT per MB for material downloaded over and above the stated monthly allowance." They have not in fact yet been charging users who have broken this 3 gig cap.

Their business offering is 1Mbps downstream / 256kbps upstream and is priced at €200.00 per month with a once off installation fee of €200. It has no cap.

EsatBT have a slimmed down residential offering of 256kbps downstream / 128kbps upstream which is priced at €59.90 per month with a once off installation fee of €151.25. It has a monthly cap of 4 gigabytes. They also offer 512 and 1mb options without monthly caps.

When can we see it established in the south west at a cheapish price?, ie cheap flat rate (specifically Limerick)

Details of enabled excahges along with other info on DSL ands its availability are available here in a piece I recently wrote for PC Live.

I'll ask a few more questions when I can think of em,

Thank you for your post, it highlights the long over due list of frequently asked questions (FAQ) we need to have on the IOFFL site. Many people have submitted faq's of differenct descriptions which I am most grateful. I better revisit them and get them up on the site!

Agent7249

Sorry about the clouding of my words:(, I was referring to the upcoming optical net which will result in better broadband services (hopefully).

Sorry about that and thanks for lettin me know whats out there now

, I think your site is great, Communications (through internet devices) is about the only thing I give a damn about in the news recently

PiE

If you mean the fibre-ring that the ESB are building, it won't be directly accessible to the public, but ISP's (such as UTV & NevadaTele) will be able to buy bandwidth from them (hopefully for less than what Eircon charge) and they'll be able to offer us services through it.

Agent7249

When the Fibre-ring completes:

1.When will residential users be able to avail of the uses of broadband?

2. What speeds will residential users be expecting from ISP's?

3. Will residential users be looking at 512kbps broadband as in most countries or will we be looking at a higher speed of 1.5mbps as defined by the International Telecommunications Union?

4.Will the fibre-ring be initialized all around Ireland simultaneously or will it be brought out in counties at a time?

5.When will The south west (Limerick) See broadband appear?

6.What pricing range will residential users be looking at for using broadband?

7.What type of installation fee's will consumers be looking at for installing broadband?

8. Will broadband require my computers internal modem to be removed or disabled?

9. Does my computer have to be beyond any system specs?

PS:
10. Have I made it clear to see now what I mean or am I still messing up? (hehe)

OHP

Welcome aboard Agent7249 you seem to be a very well versed and colourful Newbie

OHP

Ardmore

Originally posted by Agent7249
When the Fibre-ring completes:

1.When will residential users be able to avail of the uses of broadband?

The fibre ring will have little or no impact on the availability of broadband for residential users. It might lower the overheads for some ISPs who may be able to get cheaper connections to remote locations, but at the moment, there's nothing to indicate what that will mean for the end user.

2. What speeds will residential users be expecting from ISP's?

Again, this has little or nothing to do with the Fibre Ring. End user services will either be over existing wiring (cable, telphone) or wireless. There's no reason to expect any significant speed increase over the existing services, (256k-1M).

5.When will The south west (Limerick) See broadband appear?

Eircom have had ADSL in Kerry for quite some time now, ESAT offer ADSL from Roches Street and Dooradoyle exchanges in Limerick. And what's the story with powernet anyway?

6.What pricing range will residential users be looking at for using broadband?

€50-€100

7.What type of installation fee's will consumers be looking at for installing broadband?

€100-€200

8. Will broadband require my computers internal modem to be removed or disabled?

9. Does my computer have to be beyond any system specs?

Not really, but Eircom will tell you yes (because they, not unreasonably) don't want people to be complaining about the disappointing "experience".

eircomtribunal

Originally posted by Agent7249
When the Fibre-ring completes:

You are not the only one who got bamboozled by the Minister's x'th announcement of the magic metropolitan fibre rings and the journalists' nonsense about the issue.
The county councils will be offering for sale dark fibre soon to be dug in around places like Ballina, Westport (just to name the towns in my county) to interested parties in the hope that it will assist the likes of Eircom, Esat/Bt to offer dsl broadband to customers. No last mile solution, no backhaul to the internet is involved. Your questions from 1 to 9 are sadly not related to the fibre issue - although the fibre rings may hopefully play their little part in finding a solution to the sad saga of Irish Internet policy.

Former Clinton advisor Mr Costalot was paid to have a second look at the whole idea. Did anyone hear of his recommendations?

Peter

PiE

Originally posted by Ardmore
Not really, but Eircom will tell you yes (because they, not unreasonably) don't want people to be complaining about the disappointing "experience".

Oh? I was under the impression that eircom set the system requirements so high and restrictive in order to discourage unwitting people from buying DSL.

Agent7249

My perspective:

The fibre ring will have little or no impact on the availability of broadband for residential users

Srry meant affordability/availability hehe cause i can only afford sumtin like €50-€100 a month.

Welcome aboard Agent7249 you seem to be a very well versed and colourful Newbie

Thanks, whatever knowledge i have for speaking on forums in a specific manner comes from online gaming and game related fan sites

although the fibre rings may hopefully play their little part in finding a solution to the sad saga of Irish Internet policy

I agree that the saga of the irish internet policy is sad but I thought because ESB were leasing it off that foreign companies would influx into the country and provide max competition.

Not really, but Eircom will tell you yes (because they, not unreasonably) don't want people to be complaining about the disappointing "experience".

Would ram make a difference?

Again, this has little or nothing to do with the Fibre Ring. End user services will either be over existing wiring (cable, telphone) or wireless. There's no reason to expect any significant speed increase over the existing services, (256k-1M).

Im a friggin 56k'r lol and I thought it would affect the speeds as increased data transfer would be available, its not like Irelands population would increase to bring it back down to the stage we are at with limited transfer rates for many people

Ardmore

Originally posted by Agent7249
Srry meant affordability/availability hehe cause i can only afford sumtin like €50-€100 a month.

You asked how the fibre ring would impact the residential user. And the answer is - not at all. The Fibre Ring is totally irrelevant to the delivery of residential broadband, because it doesn't address the real bottleneck - the "last mile" to deliver the service into your house.

Would ram make a difference?

You can use a 386 with 16Meg of RAM if you want. If your current computer suits your needs with Dialup, then you don't need to upgrade it for broadband. If you

Im a friggin 56k'r lol and I thought it would affect the speeds as increased data transfer would be available, its not like Irelands population would increase to bring it back down to the stage we are at with limited transfer rates for many people

There's no reason to expect any significant speed increase over the existing broadbandservices, (256k-1M). Broadband is already available in many places, and the Fibre Ring isn't going to change the sort of services - expect basically the same mix of Broadband options that are available today.

LFCFan

The ESB have erected new masts beside the existing ones in the field behind our house and they are being used for the new Fibre Ring.

Hornet

I think Agent7249's questions are EXTREMELY interesting and revealing. (Agen7249, this is in no way meant negative!!!)

Most of us on this forum have a resonably good idea what the fibre optic rings can do and what they can't do for us. But does the general public, the non-boards.ie user or the non-Internet freak really now what the whole thing is about.

The fibre rings will initially cost a lot and bring no benefit for residential users. Businesses will only get benefits if they are in a high-density area (i.e. a good few more businesses on the same ring) so the question is a justified one: Is it worth it?

Another confusion the questions pointed out (once again), and this is even somewhat unclear among the initiated users:

What in god's name is BROADBAND? In my opinion, broadband starts ABOVE 2 Mbit/s. 10-100 Mbit/s is quite close! In Eircom's opinion, it is anything above 56k, I guess.

And what does the "general public" understand when they hear the term? I would dare saying that the public opinion is that you can ONLY use the Internet IF and WHEN you have "broadband".

Could that be a problem of Internet usage in Ireland?

Do we waste much to much time talking about the size of the pipe instead of about the benefit of the experience?

I like the term "midband" for ADSL as used in the Dublin Chamber of Commerce's report! Maybe we should re-define the terms we use instead of following the marketing blurb of Telcos.

-Hornet

Nyum Nyum

I can help here Hornet!

I'm a "non-Internet" freak (ok, I'm ON the internet but not on every hour god sends) and I always think of "Broadband" as being upto 10 times faster (like the UK ads say).

I'm not sure what speed ADSL is, nor DSL.

I would want "Broadband" purely to make webpages load quicker and to be able to update software quicker (virus definitions and stuff). Not interested in online gaming or downloading MP3's.

I'm not interested in this "always on" thing they plug - I'm not leaving me computer on all day, it's a waste of electricity!

I hope you can make some sense of these ramblings

What in god's name is BROADBAND? In my opinion, broadband starts ABOVE 2 Mbit/s. 10-100 Mbit/s is quite close! In Eircom's opinion, it is anything above 56k, I guess.

This is a very interesting question Hornet.

Here is one definition of BB:

It is whatever is faster then what you have

I remember once when we all thought 56k was the holy grail and I know people who thought much slower speeds where great (these people are really showing their age

For me BB can be defined as the following:

1) Packet based

2) Always On

3) Low Latency

4) Flat Rate

The speed doesn't really matter, 64k, 512k, 10mb, it is all irrelevant, we are currently on the brink of a new generation, moving from a switch based network to packet based is the major hurdle now facing us.

We need to get people to realise these benefits of BB and also that you can get the NET in other ways then just over telephone lines.

With true competition and a packet based network, the speed/price of BB will be set by market forces (i.e. what people are willing to pay, costs and competition).

We are at the dawn of a new era, once we leave the POTS behind :cool: we will see much greater development and evolution of net products, just look to IrishWISP and IBB to see what is possible.

Do we waste much to much time talking about the size of the pipe instead of about the benefit of the experience?

Yes, most people haven't a clue what 512k is and couldn't care less. When I talk about BB and IOFFL to ordinary muggels, I don't talk in technical terms, I tell them about what they can do with it.

If you would ask a muggel if they wanted 512k ADSL, they would probably look at you like you had two heads and say no.

But if you asked them if they wanted a new type of internet access, where they could download their emails and webpages much faster, play their XBOX and PC games on it, stream radio stations, music videos and soccer highlights off it, talk and see their cousin in Australia on their webcam and finally do all of this at any time of the day or night for a flat free, then the answer is "hell yes, where do I sign up".

Give me 5 minutes with any muggel non-believer and I can have them wetting themselves for BB.

However when we technical people are talking amongst ourselves, it is necessary to talk about the size of the pipes, latency, caps, etc. because these things are important, they help shape what is possible for the above muggels.

Of course it is important for the IOFFL committee and members who are talking to the press, politicians and muggels to not use technical terms and instead stress the benefits.

Agent7249

Could someone give me some details on the prices of Broadband now, with who and what speed. If it costs extra to line rental with eircom (the new DSL thing at €55), and if it costs for calls.

PiE

Just to be clear, the ~€55 DSL offer is NOT available yet and won't be until March at the earliest.

For the currently available options (which you'd be mad to sign up to with the new offer just around the corner...) see here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63719

Line rental IS extra.

Phone calls will cost the same as usual.

Agent7249

What about internet, is that set at 55 with the broadband or is it still charged at 1.26c a min cause i need it affordable, i can pay for DSL of €55 and line rental but its the internet i use mostly and costs too much presently

PiE

Er... broadband is 24/7 internet access. You won't have to pay per minute anymore, its a flat fee per month.

(Unless they impose a download cap, but thats a different matter.)

Agent7249

The cap I think is 4gb, would that be for actual downloads or the transmitting of data, ie loading sites?

PiE

Yes that includes general surfing, looking at web pages, streaming music/video etc etc.

Ardmore

Originally posted by PiE
Line rental IS extra.

Phone calls will cost the same as usual.

Line rental is not extra. ADSL is only available to people with an existing phone line (in other words, 99% of Irish households), and because you can use the phone to make voice calls even while connected to the internet, people who currently have a second line just for the internet can get rid of the 2nd line, and say €21 a month, effectively only paying €33 for ADSL). (There are many more people paying for 2 lines so that they can use the internet today than there are people who want to use the internet but don't have any phoneline at all).

spongebob

you are being disingenous here Ardmore. In March we should see

€21.15 Line rental
€54.00 ADSL (256k Capped at 4Gb with up to 50 others sharing the 256)

Fixed cost for one line €75.15 before you nust the cap or make calls

You may also have one voice call going on that while you surf...or at any other time.

M

PiE

He said: "If it costs extra to line rental with eircom (the new DSL thing at €55)"

He meant: "is line rental included in the €55 or is it seperate?"

I answered: It is extra i.e. ITS NOT INCLUDED IN THE €55.

FFS. Stop being so pedantic.

Ardmore

Originally posted by Muck
you are being disingenous here Ardmore.

No I'm not!

In March we should see

€21.15 Line rental
€54.00 ADSL (256k Capped at 4Gb with up to 50 others sharing the 256)

Fixed cost for one line €75.15 before you nust the cap or make calls

You can't have a phone line unless you have a premises. If my mortgage costs €1200 a month, by your logic, ADSL would cost €1275 a month. That's the argument that you are using.

The simple fact is that there will be hardly anyone getting ADSL who doesn't already have a phone line (there will be some people, I'm sure). So it's not simply disingenous to suggest that Line rental costs extra, it's deliberately misleading. People who currently pay for a 2nd phone line for the internet can now cancel that, saving €21.

sceptre

Originally posted by Ardmore
Line rental is not extra.

"Extra" is probably the wrong word but line rental isn'tincluded and therefore is a charge that can be regarded as "not included", "additional", "maintained" (probably the most precise term but who's going to understand it) or even "extra". I'd suggest people use the term "not included" if they want to be extra clear in future (tbh from the POV of modding the forum I could care less - depends on how pedantically semantic you are in normal conversation though). Eircom would maintain that it isn't an "extra" charge as it's a charge for a non-related service on the same line. Whether you regard this as fair comment or as total bunkum is up to you, dear readers, but if you stay away from the term "extra" you'll gain an extra minute worth of arguing time when you get the opportunity to discuss it with an Eircom rep.

(for example I have one line (like most people I know) so from my POV "not included" and "extra" are the same thing but I can see the reason for a different term)

spongebob

The average Mortgage in Ireland is €400-450 a month, this is a National forum so I tend to quote Natoinal averages. The last time I looked at the map it struck me that most of Ireland was still outside the M50.

RECENT mortgages in DUBLIN may average €1200 a month.

Again I say stop digging.

M

Agent7249

Ok what i meant is:

1.Line rental+Broadband(Internet excluded)+All calls(Internet included)?
or
2.Line rental+Broadband(Internet included)+Calls (voice calls only)?
or
3.Line rental+Broadband?

Or in number terms:

1. €21.15+€55+Voice calls(around €60)+Internet(€70 or there abouts)? Total=€206.15
or
2. €21.15+€55+voice calls(€60)?
Total= €136.15
or
3. €21.15+€55
Total= €76.15

There is only one line that we pay for and I have a mobile, and im getting the computer in summer, ffs I didnt mean for this to blow outta control lol

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Agent7249
Ok what i meant is:

1.Line rental+Broadband(Internet excluded)+All calls(Internet included)?
or
2.Line rental+Broadband(Internet included)+Calls (voice calls only)?
or
3.Line rental+Broadband?

Option 2. You need to have a line to get ADSL. Internet would included in the ADSL charge. Call charges not included.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Agent7249
2.Line rental+Broadband(Internet included)+Calls (voice calls only

2. €21.15+€55+voice calls(€60)?
Total= €136.15

Number 2 is your man. The €55 will be a charge all on it's own. So basically you will be paying €21 line rental so you can make calls but the line will have a splitter that allows data to pass over it as well as voice and this is how ADSL will work. This 'half' of the line will cost you €55 a month. Unfortunatly this won't be unlimited as €ircon have the cheek to put an allowance of 4GB on the amount of data you can recieve. Assholes!

With any luck UTVip with bring out a similar service by buying the wholesale product from €ircon but offer it without a cap. I for one will be holding out for UTVip but only if my exchange is upgraded of course.