How To Monitor Kids Online

DeVore

I've started writing something I have been meaning to write for nearly two years now.
The definitive guide to keeping your children safe (or safer) on the internet.(At least as definitive as possible).

The recent ads on the telly about paedophiles on the internet are kinda annoying as they scare everyone without actually giving any information. Typical MTV-culture I guess.

I dont buy into the "paedos are waiting to talk to you're children" thing anyway. Far more concerning to me is the exposure of kids to inappropriate material (and I dont mean just porn).
Recently I've know of Chechen execution mpgs doing the rounds for example. (a horror-fan friend of mine watched part of it before having to stop...)

Anyway, discussing this with some (non-tech) parents I know they were all concerned and wanted more information and assistance from someone they trust.

So, I've decided to start (and hopefully finish!) an FAQ / How-To for parents about their kids on the internet.
Some of the ones I've read are truely horrendous... for example if you're son (note the absence of "daughter") plays Quake... they are likely to be a hacker!!

I thought I'd tap you guys for input and content too...

DeV.

hmmm

Don't try and stand toe to toe with your kids on technical matters Stick the computer in the middle of the living room if you're worried about what they're accessing.....

Anemone

Don't assume that your net protection / filtering / barring software is the answer to the problem. The kids might get around it, or the bad guys may figure out how to get past it, or some new net technology may arise that makes it obsolete, or it might be buggy, or, or ....

Stick the computer in the middle of the living room if you're worried about what they're accessing.....

Mr E

I remember coming across a browser called ActivatorDesk a few months back that only lets you visit sites that are in its database. Its basically a frontend for Internet Explorer. It had thousands and thousands of sites which are totally safe for viewing, and it won't let you visit sites that it doesn't know about.

http://www.activatordesk.com/

daveirl

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KdjaCL

Yah PC in view ,my kids are only 2 and 3 but i let them look at stuff like this
http://www.madblast.com/funflash/swf/lasketchup.swf

But still when going to the website with the kittnes (which they thnk is the best thing ever) some popups with not very viewable for kids material come up so a decent pop up killer is needed.

Same with the humour board they watch stuff like the Christina Dirty baby but if a website thats hosting it has XXX pop ups can be annoying.

kdjac

shabbyroad

I'm with Dave here.

I get asked this question a lot and I usually use the analogy : would you leave your kids to read and look at anything in a newsagent ? No ? Then you shouldn't leave them unsupervised with your PC.

Another analogy I use is : would you give them a DVD player (ok, VHS) and access to any movies they care to find. No ? Then yadda yadda yadda....

It's important to stress to parents that the 'net is a great resource and a powerful tool but with that comes responsiblity. Just as we wouldn't let our kids drive our cars down a highway we wouldn't let them steer their minds down an information highway..... (there's a tag line in there somewhere).

DeVore - do let us see what you write - I'm v. interested.

jyd

My kids love playing the flash games on the cartoonnetwork.co.uk website....so instead of watching over them all evening....i access all the games they want and then disconnect the modem and allow them play offline.....They can only paly what is downloaded and there is no problem playing during the day with large phone bills.....they are happy and i am happy.....:)

topgold

I think kids like two-way interactions on screen and it's not really important that they had 2-way Internet interactions. So why not give them good edutainment, access to school-related portals, and also aggregate information they need?

I recommend learning how to use a screen scraper or aggregator. I use Newzcrawler to produce 40-page booklets every week. It can scrape normal websites easily. I also use SurfSaver to harvest gigantic swaths of content (entire pages) for offline review.

Nevyn

It is not just the net that has to be monitired.
I know a lot of children adn i man 12 ti 15 yr olds that asked for and got gmaes like GTA for xmas and there were some very shocked mammys when i explained to them the level of violence ect in the game.

Some parents are just not clued in and still think all games and all cartoons are suitible for thier children and dont seem to realise that the age certs are even on the games.

The pcs in our home are networked and in a play room,
the door is never closed and we are usually in the room with
our 5 year old also we set a certain ammount of time so that he knows he can not sit there all day. This will hopefully be the pattern for future years.

Yes we will be installing kickass net restrickers but that is the same as not having access to the more voilent games ion the childrens logins and having any porn in hidden folders where pryin lil eyes will find it hard to stumble on.

It is the same really as how you let ur child have acessto the tv, in a constuctive way or are you letting them do what they want as long as they are out of the way.

jyd

It's interesting that you mention the tv...the tv seems to me to be losing it's interest for my kids as they play computer games.

When i was a nipper..way back when....all we did was watch telly and play ball, but with so many kids channels on tv everything is on multiple times eg. scooby doo is on twice a day on boomerang , so it's no big deal to see scooby doo any more cos they can see it every day......years ago it was only on once on Saturday morning during swop shop....

The tv is definitely second behind the PC and consoles in the house....

My folks think it's terrible that they play games all the time, but when we watched tv we just vegged in our own little seat, my kids are playing with each other on the consoles and are playing with other people online, and i think it is much more stimulating and interactive than sitting watching the television.

Rant over....:)

DeVore

Great stuff guys! Keep it coming. I'm harvesting some really good ideas from this already and when I release the finished product it will under opensource, and copy free to see if we can get it to as far as possible.

Specific things I could do with having a large number of people look into are:

1. Lists of links to sites that are kid friendly. I'm sure there are kid-portals there where *everything* on it is kid friendly and all the links are too....

2. Net nanny software sites I only know of 4 personally.

3. Genuine danger points (hotmail email accounts spring to mind as they are spammed with sex stuff regardless...).

4. Other Resources that you (as parents... and remember I'm not a parent!) have found useful...


DeV.

Mnemoniac

Originally posted by DeVore
I've started writing something I have been meaning to write for nearly two years now.
The definitive guide to keeping your children safe (or safer) on the internet.(At least as definitive as possible).

Good initiative DeVore. Here's my tuppenceworth.

The first thing I'd say about it is that your approach to monitoring
your kids on internet should reflect your approach to monitoring your
kids on the street, in school, at the dinner table, and everywhere
else. In other words, your internet policy should be part of your
parenting policy. Sometimes your kids are under your nose. Sometimes
they're not and you have to have certain controls in place. As a
parent, I've got my own take on this and every other parent does too
(or should have).

My daughter's still pretty young (4) so I haven't had to be too
careful with her just yet when it comes to the net. She can't read
yet so our household homepage has icons linking to Tellytubbies,
Tweenies, Mr. Men, Moomins and a whole bunch of other stuff in other
languages. (And Las Ketchup is popular too, KdjaC!)

She knows how to get to those on any PC in the house. First click on
the dinosaur (mozilla) or if it's already running, click on the little
house and then surf away to her heart's content. She frequently does
that unsupervised.

If anything, my approach to parenting is more based on education than
on restriction. I don't intend forbidding my daughter to visit
certain websites or chatrooms but I do intend to make her net use a
subject for discussion in the same way as her TV use is a subject for
discussion.

Of course the TV is in the living room so that's easy to monitor.
Several posters have already suggested doing the same with the
children's PC. As it happens we've already got networked PCs on all
three floors of our house and a laptop floating somewhere around the
place too so that wouldn't really be much of an option even if I did
agree with it.

The day will come soon enough when I shift one of the PCs into my
daughter's bedroom and stick it on the LAN and then she'll be on her
own. By that stage I'll have made two things clear to her.

Firstly that we should be able to talk about her activities on the net
in much the same way as we should be able to talk about her activities
at school or with her friends. And secondly that there are controls
in place to verify that she's not being deceitful.

Parents everywhere have always said, "be home by 10," or "don't hang
around with those guys," or "don't hang around in that part of town,"
and then they've checked up on their kids if they're in doubt.

If I feel it necessary, my approach to doing that in the modern world
will by letting my daughter know that all our household net traffic
passes through our firewall machine where it can all be logged and I'm
the only one with access.

Of course, one day she'll probably figure out how to get around that
but by then I'm counting on her being able to make her own judgements
anyway.

Now I'm aware that not all parents will have the knowhow to do this,
even if they do have the same approach to parenting as I do, but
that's my plan and it may work for some. Hell, it may not even work
for me. Time will tell.

daveirl

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Stanley_kubrick

Im 16 and i can do what i like on the net.Ive seen some weird crap and downloaded weird crap and to think that a chechen execution would phase me is laughable.Maybe i am messed up but i think over the age of 15 people need to discover the sickness and heath of the world that is the internet.If kids cant handle something theyll puke or just turn off it altogeter.This net nanny biz can be cracked too.Ive got cracks for dudes i know (over 15).THe world needs to relax and smoke a bifter.Everything settles after a while.Im settled comfortably in my chair.How r u?

DeVore

/|\
'

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this is why you need to monitor your kids online.

DeV.

ykt0di9url7bc3

like TV but Where Internet differs between TV,

Internet doesnt have a 9 o'clock watershed
Internet doesnt have a standard commision on advertising


although the internet is a service i believe that you have to sit with your Kids and supervise thier internet activity, have the net PC in the main sitting room, and have the net passworded...

Its easy to start with school work to introduce them to the net, a being a resource of great knowledge they can find the info they need at ease, build on that to show that hobbies/bands/games can be used on this service

net nanny/parental controls dont really work to the curious child, supervision io found did work for my younger brothers and cousins

Guy Incognito

I worked in a summer camp last year where there were kids from 4-15/16. I was "in charge" of the computers for those few weeks. The computers were on the college network with MAME and a couple of hundred games installed and Websense filtering out most of the pron some of the older lot knew about. I wub you Websense!

On the first day, we had to really lay down the law to the 10yrs+ groups.
*No email at all.
*No chatrooms.
*No WWE sites. (Some really hated this, but the links that google can throw up for "WWE" just wasn't worth the hassle)
*None of those thespark.com-type questionnaire things.(Some iffy content)
*I forget the rest.

Then, 10mins into the 10-12yr olds being there, one found a strip poker rom.

Never underestimate kids

The speed I can now press the ALT and F4 buttons at now, you wouldn't believe!

daveirl mentioned Yahooligans above. It was an absolute godsend for those few weeks. Try typing in "funny animal pictures" into a search engine some time and you'll see what I mean. An absolute godsend.

daveirl

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Chowmein

Personally I think that the important thing to remember is that different things are suitable to different age groups ( also that children aren’t always of the same mental age as they are physically), and you have to let them discover some things on there own. There are also things that there not going to be comfortable asking you about, the internet gives them the anonymity to ask/find answers but there not going to do that with the computer sitting in the living room while your watching TV or reading a book (an unforunatly rare occourance in alot of famliys ).

I also don’t think net nannies are the answer, to me they seem a substitute for teaching your kids what’s suitable and what’s not (I can understand it with kids of 2-7 range as there not going to understand what there clicking on a lot of the time). What people need to do is sit down and be honest with there kids about what both the perents and the children think they should be using the internet for.

Pimp Ninja

Originally posted by Mnemoniac
so our household homepage has icons linking to Tellytubbies,
Tweenies, Mr. Men, Moomins and a whole bunch of other stuff in other
languages. (And Las Ketchup is popular too, KdjaC!)

She knows how to get to those on any PC in the house. First click on
the dinosaur (mozilla) or if it's already running, click on the little
house and then surf away to her heart's content. She frequently does
that unsupervised.

Am I rignt in thinking that you have set up your own homepage, with already vetted sites listed in it?

If not then there's another idea... Writing a generic HTML page, bright colours, pretty pictures, that will act as the users homepage.
The only links on it would lead to previously viewed by parents and approved sites.
Mnemoniac's idea or my interpetation of what I've quoted.. its still a good one...

DeVore

I've seen Mnemonics kid's homepage. its well cool and a clever way of directing your child into the right areas of the net.

I'm going to collate the info I've gotten from a few different sources and create *something* to help parents along.

Great ideas so far, very practical.

DeV.

CuLT

Originally posted by KdjaC
But still when going to the website with the kittnes (which they thnk is the best thing ever) some popups with not very viewable for kids material come up so a decent pop up killer is needed.

Googles downloadable toolbar now has an effective popup blocker, integrates nicely into the browser and best of all it's free!

nosmo

Just a note from the other side of the fence, and hopefully one that doesn't make me sound like a dick...

I'm 16, and since I moved to going online with a PC (about 5 years ago), there has been internet monitoring software on my computer. And it sure as hell stopped ME getting anything off the net that I shouldn't have. Maybe stopped me a little too much. The monitoring software I had was a bit overzealous, and ended up blacklisting about 90% of the textfiles on my computer, mostly because they might have had the odd swearword, phrases such as "install the files to xxx\baseq2\maps", or just completely inexplicable errors where a big warning would flash up and the system would lock. It also lead to frequent crashes for no reason when playing games or other demanding applications. Needless to say, I wasn't happy with the situation, and I talked to the installer of the software (my father). He gave me a long speil about how he trusted me, but that the internet was a dangerous place and I needed to be "protected". (I would probably have known about anything I'd see on a porn banner at that point, anyway) THAT completely justified the software, right (at this point I was about 14) :rolleyes:
With a little bit of prodding and poking, I managed to disable the software, both temporarily and permanently. Even after doing so, I didn't abuse it (I was paranoid enough at this point ), but if the urge had overtaken me, I could have done so.

Just a note on software, and I would advise all to test the software out before subjecting your kids to it. I do acknowledge that children DO need to be protected, but not completely closed to the net.

Victor

I think parent education is important - even if it is an ECDL course or similar. Page logging is also important.

I think as the child matures and can demonstrate this, then restrictions should gradually be withdrawn.

http://www.neopets.com/ is like an online version of tamagochies (I don't think they die though). My nieces use it regularly.

They also seem to like point and click type games as opposed to shoot 'em ups.

Finally everything in moderation - the local kids here are allowed into the internet café for maybe an hour 3-4 nights a week. Likewise the girls aren't allowed play Playstation all day (and not before breakfast). Given the way many boardsters are net addicts, we need to control / moderate the next generation (damn bandwidth hogs ). While inappropriate for a youngster - breifly visiting a porn site / whatever shouldn't mean an autoban on everything - if they linger there, it may be a nother matter.

Soloie

Kids Internet
Obey your parents rules, even if you think they are lame or silly. You have to trust that they are doing the right thing.
Know that TRUST between you and your Mom and Dad is the BEST protection you will ever have ~ on the internet AND in the real world!
NEVER give out:
Your full name, your last name
Your parents' full names, your friend's full names, your teacher's name
(If your teacher's name is Mrs. Jones, just call her "Mrs. J")
Your age or grade
(people can tell how old you are from the grade you are in)
Your home address
The addresses of your friends or family
Your phone number
Your friends or family's phone numbers
Your personal e-mail address or any address you are not sure is safe
(certain e-mail addresses are safe, more on this later)
Anyone elses e-mail address
The name of your city or town
Your school name or address
The names of any teams or clubs you belong to
Any passwords you have or know
These things are safe give out:
Your first name or a nickname that does not give away your last name
The country you live in (ONLY the country)
An e-mail address that your parents have told you it is "OK" to use
(It is a good idea to get your parents to help you set up a secure e-mail address that you will know is "OK" to use ~ free e-mail accounts are good for this)
Anything your parents have told you is "OK" to say
NEVER ever put your picture on the internet OR let somebody else put it on the internet unless your parents say it is "OK"
NEVER, never ever agree to meet an online "friend" somewhere in the real world. Let your parents know if you want to meet someone and let them decide if it is "OK" and then take them with you. This is THE ONLY safe way to do this!
Don't believe everything a person you meet on the internet says about themselves. Think about how easy it is for you to "fake it" on line and remember it is just as easy for everybody else to do the same
Even if somebody says they are a kid, remember that they can very easily lie and don't be fooled ~ still obey the safe surfing rules!
Don't download anything without your parents help or "OK"
DO show Mom and Dad all the cool and fun sites you find on the internet. Take them by your favourite chat room, show them the really great things you post on bulletin boards ~ THEY just might learn something from YOU!
If ANYBODY on the internet says or does something that scares or bothers you ~ something that makes your tummy feel funny ~ stop talking to them right a way, never talk to them again, and TELL MOM OR DAD OR AN ADULT YOU TRUST RIGHT AWAY
If ANYBODY online threatens you, your family, or anybody else TELL YOUR PARENTS, THE WEBPAGE ADMINISTRATOR AND THE POLICE
Remember it is always better to be safe than to be sorry!

topgold

After Shevaun Pennington returned home, I remembered this thread and wrote a short piece for the Examiner.

Time for Kids by Kids Online

Victor

Originally posted by topgold
Time for Kids by Kids Online

"We do children a disservice sometimes by not forbidding things," says Dr Rachel O’Connor, the centre’s director of research. "Any child spending five hours a day on the Internet – that’s five hours withdrawn from real human company – is exhibiting a problem. The computer becomes an escape and it feels safe."

I want to escape.

Falkorre

As a survivor of abuse, and as somone who has spent *years* running and modd'ing on legitimate survivor forums, (MASSF, IL, etc), I would like to say that it is a simple matter of parents watching their kids online, but it isnt.
Kids, specially teenagers, will just wait till parents are out or in bed b4 they go online.

B

Capt'n Midnight

First if you find anything report it here --> https://www.hotline.ie

FREEWARE LINKS

http://www.squidguard.org/ - (I'm the 100,000th visitor) also has links to black lists
Can this be got to work with the windows version of Squid ?http://www.serassio.it/SquidNT/index.htm - if so then could install on the same machine you use to surf from - bur probably more use to a school already using squid

Look no DNS...
Fastnet99 can dump all your favorites and history into the Hosts file - so if you disable the proxy and DNS then you can limit what sites are allowed to be seen - whitelist - perhaps in conjuction with a web site. (or if you set the IP address of a site to 127.0.0.1 it is blocked)

=========================================

Also all the usual stuff like zonealarm / anti virus / anti pop up / anti malware should be installed on any machine - if possible get rid of microsoft outlook and use something that won't open as many attachments .....

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~sergeb/Canary.htm - is a utility to record keystrokes ...

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Anyone have a list of US Home user ISP IP's - it should be possible to filter out lots of stuff this way..

Blacklists and filters will never be 100% effective - but you want as many bites of the cherry as possible. (or whitelists)

Perhaps a campaign for a Child safe ISP (as opposed to portal) - it could charge more 'cos users would not have to pay for various filters and all the hassle in setting it up.... - actually since BB generally uses a fixed IP this could be rolled out very quickly (if only there was a will to do it... )

maxheadroom

Originally posted by Victor

http://www.neopets.com/ is like an online version of tamagochies (I don't think they die though). My nieces use it regularly.

Hmm... My sister uses this, but I did a bit of research into it, and its really just advertising aimed at kids. The company that runs it has contracts with some very big corporations, the same companies who wouldn't be allowed to do this kind of targeted advertising on TV. McDonalds is one of them, I think Nestle are too, as are General Mills.

I was quite disturbed, but maybe that's just because I think that feeding advertising to childern in a way that is indistinguishable from the game their playing is quite twisted.