New NTL STB?

Calibos

Has anyone got this new STB yet or know the model number so we can check the specs??

Calibos

Got an email from NTL today in which they said the new STB is the Pace 300i in silver. He said it only outputs composite. Will I miss RGB in light of the fact that I could never see much of a difference between these video signal formats from my sony 335 dvd on my 32in sony WS tv?

Calibos

Thanks for answering all my questions you lot, You've been most helpful:rolleyes:

Calibos

Maybe I'll get a response next week? :rolleyes:

icdg

Now why did I (or anyone else) notice this four months ago...

Pace Micro Technology to supply NTL Ireland



First customer for Pace’s Di300 platform


Pace Micro Technology plc has signed a new supply contract with NTL Ireland, Ireland’s largest multi channel TV operator. The contract will see Pace supply NTL Ireland with its new Di300 home gateway (set-top box) over a two-year period, starting in October 2002.


NTL Ireland will utilise Pace’s Di300 home gateway to continue the development of its digital television service which currently includes an extensive range of channels, on-demand films and interactive programme guide. The Di300 is the latest addition to Pace’s cable home gateway line-up and is highly cost-effective through a combination of new developments in product design and tailored functionality.


The Di300 is built using the same silicon and software as other models in Pace’s cable range to ensure there are no differences in overall speed, performance and interoperability.


Graham North, Pace’s regional director for UK and Ireland commented: "We have developed the Di300 based on the needs of NTL Ireland, by tailoring set-top box functionality to customer requirements. The Di300 builds on the success of its stable-mate, the Di4000, which was certified to the EuroDOCSIS 1.0 standard in July.


North added: "The Di300 takes advantage of the high performance architecture of the Di4000 whilst being scaleable to meet current as well as future operator needs. The Di300 is the most effective cable gateway we have ever developed meaning that NTL Ireland will benefit in the performance stakes as they grow and develop their digital service."


Mark Mohan, marketing director at NTL Ireland commented: "NTL is the first choice for digital TV in Ireland, and this deal will help us to lead from the front as we grow and expand our business further."

icdg

Found also a rather cool picture of the new STB!

http://www.pace.co.uk/images/uploaded/Large/NTL-Di300.jpg

Unfortunately Pace do not seem to have its specs on the website (any more).

But I've found this old thread which has some of the details - basically, no cable modem, PSTN modem instead.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67129&highlight=Di300

Calibos

Thanks for the response ICDG!:D

Now why did I (or anyone else) notice this four months ago...

Is that a dig at me for not doing a forum search or something?:D I did, honest! After my first post anyway!:D I've read all the cable threads going back weeks in the last few days including the one you linked to. The reason for the second post was because I thought the model number hadn't been confirmed and that basically the only info we had was that it was a 'cut down' version. Therefore I posted this confirmation 'straight from the horses mouth' in this thread. Especially in light of the fact that Composite only:mad: was new information. The third and forth post was.....well frustration!:D

Anyway, heres the email I got from them. The info was confirmed by an email response I recieved back from Pace latter that day.

Dear Mr ********

Thank you for your email. The current 300i Digital set Top boxes are only capable of a composite signal. The primary colours are normally used with professional broadcasting and receiving equipment as are available on any modern day projection system like yours. However, the quality of the Digital service is excellent and it may not cause a considerable influence over the final picture quality. I understand the theory in relation to pixelation etc. however Digital television is, under most circumstance, not influenced by the source but rather the equipment being used. A similar effect can be obtained whilst using a DVD system through a projection unit as there is not a vast amount of difference in the delivered product, ie. broadcasts.

Unfortunately, we do not provide scart lead's with a 10 meter length. I take it that the system will be set-up by means of a scart to phono connection and regrettably we do not provide these cables. I hope that this email has answered any queries you may have had. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us on 1800 321 321 or once again e-mail us on customer.support@ntl.ie

So should I be worried about composite? As I said in an earlier post I couldn't see any difference between composite and RGB from a dvd player on my normal telly. Will I see a differance on my projector though?

Fair play to you finding the picture ICDG. I've followed every link on the pace site and tried every combination of Pace Di300 in google and I couldn't dig up anything!!

watty

Composite problems:
On certain colours you will see patterning
On fine detail you may see false flickering colour
You may have patterening on strong coloured edges and text.

These are alleivated with a good comb filter.

All analog composite colour systems (PAL, NTSC, SECAM) carry the colour difference U and V signals in the same space as the Y (black and white) image.
Fine horizontal detail B&W can thus be falsly interpreted as colour and colour can be falsly interpreted as B&W detail.

There are several solutions:
2D com filter PAL (not 100% successful)
3D comb filter for NTSC (not 100% success)

RGB feed. (But if source is Y U V so this may degrade the fine detail. DVD, Digital Cable, Digital MMDs, DTT and DSAT are all MPEG2 using Y U V). Usually fine for PAL originated YUV to RGB but not so good for NTSC.

S- Video feed. The UV (in PAL, NTSC or SECAM modulation) is carried on a separate wire to the Y signal. This works perfectly in keeping the colour and B&W detail separate.

Component Video (more common in USA). The U and V are not sharing a Wire using PAL or NTSC. It is like S-Video, with the UV colour signal in its parts. Like RGB removes limitations of NTSC or PAL coder

This reciever is obviously built down to a price. Any Digital source (DVD, DTT, Digital MMDS, Digital Cable, Digital Satellite) benefits from S-Video to TV/Projector S-Video in. The matrixing of MPEG2 decoders Y and UV to RGB can sometimes over soften the picture (Sky Digibox). It shouldn't though.

SCART can carry Composite, RGB or S-Video, if the equipment out and In support it.

For LONG scarts you simply use 75 Ohm coax for each video signal and good individually screened twin audio cable for stereo. Length can be over 30M without equalisers using 1/4" style VHF 75 Ohm coax for each video signal.

Even short SCART should have individual coax inside the sheath rather than a bunch of wires with a single screen overall.

icdg

Originally posted by Calibos
Thanks for the response ICDG!:D

Is that a dig at me for not doing a forum search or something

No, its a dig at myself! I'm supposed to notice these things! And report them on the ICDG web site (when I take time out of my ever-busy schedule to update it).

Calibos

NTL while be out to install Digital for me tomorrow (Thursday), so I'll post pictures of the STB (front,back etc)and specs from the manual tomorrow evening hopefully.

Calibos

The nice NTL installer arrived and installed Digital for me. The bad news is that the installer said the model he was giving me is the Pace 300i (di300??) Its not the fancy looking one ICDG linked to. It looks like a normal box. 6 buttons on the left of 3 leds and the power button to the right of the Leds. It is however silver in colour on the front panel which is great cause it will match the rest of my av gear.

The Good News?? It outputs RGB!! Woohoo!!:D. Around the back there is only a Scart output and the the RF input. So no RF output at all, never mind pass thru. No phono audio outs either. Not a problem for me though as I dont need rf out and I have a suitable scart to get the stereo sound out of the box. The installer said the lack of RF out was because NTL didn't want users feed more than one tv from the STB, a policy which he said he didn't agree with. He said if I wanted rf out I should get on to them and tell them I want the 400i STB that has this and tell them I have an 'OLD' tv which needs RF. I don't need to bother though. I've got RGB!!:D.:D Like I said the NTL installer seemed to be a nice helpful knowledgeable guy.

As for PQ. I've only got it hooked up to my projector with composite at the moment but I have to say that I'm well impressed!!:D Anyway Heres a pic of the STB and remote.

icdg

Originally posted by Calibos
The installer said the lack of RF out was because NTL didn't want users feed more than one tv from the STB, a policy which he said he didn't agree with. He said if I wanted rf out I should get on to them and tell them I want the 400i STB that has this and tell them I have an 'OLD' tv which needs RF.

The other way around it of course, is to plug the SCART lead into your video, plug the VCR RF-out into your TV, then set your VCR to the Scart-In channel (EXT2 or similar). It works, but isn't exactly the best solution, and assumes your VCR has two SCART sockets...

The real reason for its lack of inclusion incidently, is likely to be Pace / NTL cutting down on costs even more!

As for that pic, perhaps it was a prototype? Or maybe there's a difference between the Di300 and Di300i ?

icdg

I forgot to ask, can you check the version number of your EPG software? (Press "help", on your remote, its beside "0"). It should be v5.26 like the rest of us, unless.... NTL have installed new software in these boxes to facilitate interactive?

Calibos

Ok I had a look at the box the STB came in.
The model number is - Pace di300-N. The name the installer and the NTL phone/Email Support gave me was Pace 300i. The support crowd and even Pace themselves said it only outputted composite??!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: NB.- It does output RGB.

No manual, just a small NTL booklet with generic STB functions explained. ie no mention of Composite/RGB selection but as I said the STB does have this!

The epg version is V5.35! (But what does it all mean Basil?)

Like you said in one of the other threads ICDG, he installed an rf splitter from the wall outlet. One going to the STB and one going to the Video for analogue reception. He also supplied a scart splitter. ie single scart plug to two scart plugs(NB. not sockets.) One end goes to TV and the other goes to video. I won't be using this cable until I get an RGB to Component/S-Video converter to hook up to my Projector. When I do, one of the split scart plugs will go to video and the other will go into the RGB-Component convertor with component cables then going to the PJ.

The only downside of the lack of RF output for me is that I cant run a co-ax to the other tv's in the house from the STB. Shouldn't be too much of an issue though. I'm sure most of the family will want to be watching the sports channels on the 7 1/2 foot screen anyway!!

patrickmooney

Wooh! 5.35! At one stage I remember seeing mine on 5.29...but alas it's back down to 5.26.

So I wonder whats differnent.....?!?!?

Weird thing is that I only got a new box last week and they didn't give me this new silver model.

watty

Originally posted by Calibos
Ok I had a look at the box the STB came in.
The model number is - Pace di300-N. The name the installer and the NTL phone/Email Support gave me was Pace 300i. The support crowd and even Pace themselves said it only outputted composite??!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: NB.- It does output RGB.

No manual, just a small NTL booklet with generic STB functions explained. ie no mention of Composite/RGB selection but as I said the STB does have this!

It could have RGB/Comp on a menu and still lack RGB on the SCART.

Keep us posted how you get on. When you have an RGB capable SCART lead wired to the Projector verify that on fine detial (herring bone pattern cloth etc,) false colour vanishes and on very bold colours the fine mottling dissapears in RGB mode.

(You probably have to set the Pace and Projector to RGB)

Keep us posted how you get on.

I have pin connections details if you need a custom SCART to wierd Projector connector wired up.

icdg

Originally posted by Calibos

The epg version is V5.35! (But what does it all mean Basil?)

You should have the Liberate 1.1 interactive middleware on your box (don't worry about that bit, NTL Ireland don't have any interactive services yet). Also you might be able to recieve teletext on a few channels, try some of them and see. Go to BBC ONE NI and dial page 888 and see if subtitles appear.

On 5.26, we've got no teletext.

Calibos

On the RGB issue-

Watty, you got me worried so I brought the STB into my RGB capable tv in the other room. I switched from composite to RGB on the STB menu and sure enough, the picture did the RGB picture shift and lost all the composite shimmer/ banding etc. Much sharper, colours much more defined. Lovely! So it looks like its safe to say that this new box has RGB!:D

ICDG-

How do I check for teletext. I can't find a button for it on the remote. I went into the menu and set the subtitles to on and cycled throught the channels (incl. BBC1) but no subtitles. I also tried the email,internet and interactive buttons and the have no affect. The On demand button works though. The one thing about the remote is that the channel up/down buttons on the sides are a bit fiddley to use. I'll have to see if I can program the codes into my Sony 1080 receiver remote.

icdg

Your TV needs to be teletext capable (I am talking here common garden teletext, not the fancy stuff Sky viewers have). Just press text on your TV remote (not NTL one) and see if appears. Having checked through the Digital Spy fora, I think Paramount might be a better channel to start on for checking that sort of thing.

v5.26 viewers won't find teletext on any channel on NTL Digital. Indeed our manual ("Your NTL digital TV services guide") warns that it isn't present.

You won't find the subtitles featuring working, in Ireland at any rate. We have it on 5.26 too, and it doesn't work!

watty

Re teletext.
I have a similar prob on my PC receiver. The TV feed is fine, but without teletext.

With Digital (Cable, MMDS, DTT, Satellite) the Telextext is removed from the picture before MPEG2 Encoding and fed as a separate serial data stream (Teletext is itself serial digital data, and always has been).

A *DIGITAL* (Cable/ MMDS /Satellite/DTT) box has to do TWO things to make Teletext work on your TV, (assuming terrestrial teletext works on it).
1) "Tune in" and error correct the separate serial data stream
2) "Reinsert it" into the Analog Picture.

Item 1 is handled in the DSP/Demux software of the chip that selects the correct TV picture data stream(MPEG2 usually) and Audio (MPeg1 Layer 2 usually) data streams out of all the channels sharing the same "frequency".

Almost all the DAC chips that convert the decrypted & MPEG2 decoded digital video to RGB/S-Video/Composite have a "serial control bus" for PAL or NTSC mode and Teletext, Closed Caption or "Next View" data reinsertion.

The Settop box make might not have the SW written or working correctly, hence no teletext to the TV, even if the datastream has it.

Of course even if the original program source has Teletext and the Box can receive the data stream and correctly re-insert it, there is no guareentee that NTL transmits it on Cable in the first place.

In theory with a PC, a PIC micro you could add your own Teletext pages to TV via the Chip in a NTL Pace, Chorus Sagem or SkyDigibox.