Worthington Cup triumph. How does Houllier outwit Ferguson

Hobart · 03-03-2003 9:42am #1

With the fantastic victory over UTD yesterday the question has to arise. How do Liverpool constantly outplay and out-psyche Utd? Even as a hardened Liverpoll fan, I have to recognise the quality of the Utd team. So how do Liverpool constantly do it? Are they actually a better 'team' than United? With the constant bad performances of so called 'stars' such as Keane, Beckham, Ferdinand, Veron, Bartez etc... are United just a team of past-it individuals incapable of winning anything in thier current guise?

Xterminator · 03-03-2003 10:07am

I think that Liverpools 'boring' style of play, i.e. sitting behind the ball, inviting their opponents to come at them, and hitting them on the break is actually the ideal way to play against manchester united.

Liverpools pacy front 2, fed by passes from Murphy and Gerrard can catch anybody out, especially when they are coming forward, as United had to, at 1-0 down.

X

Hobart · 03-03-2003 10:24am

Originally posted by Xterminator
I think that Liverpools 'boring' style of play, i.e. sitting behind the ball, inviting their opponents to come at them, and hitting them on the break is actually the ideal way to play against manchester united.

Liverpools pacy front 2, fed by passes from Murphy and Gerrard can catch anybody out, especially when they are coming forward, as United had to, at 1-0 down.

X

Didn't see any evidence of 'boring' in the game yesterday. I thought Liverpool were very nervous for the first 15 or so. After that I thought they dominated midfield. When you have class players like Scholes given a free run in front of midfield its very hard not to be slightly defensive.

However after half time when Utd had to attack, apart from 15 mins of pressure, the 'class' midfield and Van Nistelrooy where not in the game. If it was as simple as inviting pressure onto yourself from Utd they would be winning the Prem, would they not?

dougal · 03-03-2003 10:38am

Liverpools problem is not that they are boring particularly but that they are one-dimensional.
If Utd had scored first then they would have been exposed as that.

Hobart · 03-03-2003 10:51am

Originally posted by dougal
Liverpools problem is not that they are boring particularly but that they are one-dimensional.
If Utd had scored first then they would have been exposed as that.

Totally agree with you in terms of them being one dimensional. But everbody knows that at this stage! And still Ferguson could not change his tactivs enuf to circumvent this? Why not?

And TBH the see comments like "If UTD had scored first" blah blah blah is just crap. The fact is they did not. If Bayern Munich had scored 3 in the Europeon Cup final Utd would not have won it. If Arsenal had not scored in Old Trafford last year they would not have lifted the cup in Old Trafford. If my auntie had balls..........

LizardKing · 03-03-2003 10:58am

Ifs and buts , who's to know how Liverpool would have fared IF United had scored first Perhaps they would have rallied together and scored 3 instead of 2 , it did not happen and nobody can tell what may have happened ....

Houllier's triumph was probably helped by not believing the $hité about Uniteds alleged injuries. Scholes , Giggs , Silvestre etc. were all Suppossedly to be out for match. I think most managers have learned not to believe any of the crap that Ferguson says before games , they've become aware of his so called mind games and just ignore them... I think Alex needs to learn a few new Tricks ... but you know what they say about 'Old Dogs ... '

KdjaCL · 03-03-2003 11:57am

I wouldnt worry about that ,i would be thinking how can Utd outplay Juve twice, a far superior team then liverpool will ever be.

And then lose and draw to Liverpool and Bolton?

weird isnt it

kdjac

LizardKing · 03-03-2003 12:08pm

Originally posted by KdjaC
I wouldnt worry about that ,i would be thinking how can Utd outplay Juve twice, a far superior team then liverpool will ever be.

And then lose and draw to Liverpool and Bolton?

weird isnt it

kdjac

Looks like we have another Prophet on our hands , I mean it must be a great gift to be able to see the future and tell that Juventus will be far superior than Liverpool forever ...

Have you got any other forecasts : perhaps this weeks lotto results or maybe the winners of this years Champions League .. (what's that ! , oh yeah its gonna be Man U of course :rolleyes: )

Hobart · 03-03-2003 12:10pm

Originally posted by KdjaC
I wouldnt worry about that ,i would be thinking how can Utd outplay Juve twice, a far superior team then liverpool will ever be.

kdjac

Soundite or what? What do you mean by that? Have you a magic oracle that can see into the future?

darthmise · 03-03-2003 12:50pm

Originally posted by Hobart
I thought Liverpool were very nervous for the first 15 or so. After that I thought they dominated midfield.

Rubbish.
Pools midfield didn't get a sniff all game. Veron and Keane had so much of the ball it was funny. Thats not to say veron played well though. His distribution was ****e all game. It was a big problem for us, the final ball.

I thought utd would have learned from previous experience. Every time we come out and throw the kitchen sink at the pool they beat us, except when we went to anfield this year and let liverpool try to dictate the game, something they can't do. Our patience was rewarded with two late goals.

After yesterday, i've know now that there is no justice on football.

darthmise · 03-03-2003 12:53pm

Originally posted by LizardKing
Ifs and buts , who's to know how Liverpool would have fared IF United had scored first Perhaps they would have rallied together and scored 3 instead of 2 , it did not happen and nobody can tell what may have happened ....

I could. United would have won.
The first goal was always going to win the game.
Liverpool have come from behind in only one of their last 45 games to win.
I don't think liverpool won it yesterday, i think we lost it.

mada999 · 03-03-2003 1:03pm

hahaha i love when utd fans start crying!

Another great win from the pool! Keano was utd's only good player yesterday, he worked like a horse, brilliant performance. Dudek is the best goalie in the premiership, except for a few mistakes earlier in the season. Silvestre couldn't handle diouff(even though he's crap)

"Van" the man was really bad! Beckham was worse!!! Losers!

I will say this - UTD WILL WIN NOTHING THIS SEASON ! ! ! ! ! !

Hobart · 03-03-2003 1:13pm

Originally posted by darthmise
I could. United would have won.
The first goal was always going to win the game.
Liverpool have come from behind in only one of their last 45 games to win.
I don't think liverpool won it yesterday, i think we lost it.

First of all get your facts straight. What you have said above in untrue. and I quote "Liverpool have come from behind in only one of their last 45 games to win." That's total crap. Secondly you are so typical of the minority of Manu supporters who bitch and moan everytime they get beaten by a better team on the day. Read the papers. Look at the web Utd Lossssssssssst Liverpool WON! Simple as that!

super_furry · 03-03-2003 2:07pm

The best team on the day won the Cup, simple as that. Incidently, the best team on the day won the last seven of eight games between the two teams

dougal · 03-03-2003 2:37pm

And TBH the see comments like "If UTD had scored first" blah blah blah is just crap. The fact is they did not. If Bayern Munich had scored 3 in the Europeon Cup final Utd would not have won it. If Arsenal had not scored in Old Trafford last year they would not have lifted the cup in Old Trafford. If my auntie had balls..........

The point I was trying to make that it wasn't Houlliers tactics that meant Utd did not score first - it was poor finishing and good goalkeeping! Also it wasn't Houlliers tactics that meant that Liverpool did score first - it was a deflection.

All well and good saying that Houllier had better tactics and Ferguson was out thought but it wasn't the case!

Houllier had one set of tactics which worked due to the fact that Utd failed to score. You cannot be sure of good goalkeeping and poor finishing by the opposition in every game so hence you need a few more tricks up your sleeve as Monsieur Houllier may have noticed if he watched some of the last 20 games his team has played!

Space Coyote · 03-03-2003 3:01pm

Liverpool 2 - 0 Manchester United

i think that says it all folks

_____
YNWA

Jak · 03-03-2003 3:16pm

United were fairly atrocious.

Distribution was awful throughout the game, and personally I do not think Keane played well at all.

Liverpool deserved the win on the balance of play.

On a side note, I do support Liverpool (if I had to pick a team) and I have to say Diouff was staggeringly poor. He has absolutely no pace whatsoever and that Baros lad should have been on for the 90mins.

JAK.

Hobart · 03-03-2003 3:41pm

The point I was trying to make that it wasn't Houlliers tactics that meant Utd did not score first

Took me a while to work out what you were trying to say there but I think you are saying that the way Liverpool played had nothing got to do with the fact that United did not score. Is that right? From my recolection United got one shot on terget before Gerrard scored.

Secondly yes Gerrard did get a deflection when scoring. But was this move not started by a counter attack? Riise was involved and Gerrard is a midfielder. I believe it was. So if Houlliers advice had been, couter attack and defend, well then it contradicts what you are saying, does it not?

All well and good saying that Houllier had better tactics and Ferguson was out thought but it wasn't the case!

So by that analagy Fergusson had the better tactics and still lost. OR. Fergusson was not out-thought and still lost. OR. You are living in a dream land and believe Utd won. Which is it?

Houllier had one set of tactics which worked due to the fact that Utd failed to score.

RRRRight. So let me get this. Houllier had good tactics that depended on united not scoring. However his tactics had nothing got to do with the fact Utd did not score and it all did not matter because Fergusson had the better tactics and was not out-thought or out-witted by Houllier and it did not matter in any case because Fergusson believed that that he had the better tactics and the fact that Dudeck may make 2 saves in the first half had nothing got to do with the fact that Fergusson thinks one swallow makes a summer and that Dudeck is a crap keeper because he had a poor game against United, 3 months ago, but it did not matter because Van the Man and his 10 mates were having an off day and Liverpool were lucky because of a deflection but It all does not matter because Liverpool had a $hite season with only winning 2 of their last 16 games, but they are only 12 points behind the almighty UTD. Is that what you are saying?

Dustaz · 03-03-2003 4:02pm

Personally, I think it comes down to the simple fact that this was Liverpools only shot at any sort of glory this season.

United have a spanking chance to win the European cup (if they get a soft quarter final draw they will win it, without a doubt) and they are still in with a good shout of the league. Liverpool have nothing, no fa cup, no league chance and a fading chance at qualifying for uefa. They HAD to win this game to be sure of european action next year. It was all or nothing for them, its still a "shìt cup" for United.

As to the comment about Juventus. Did you watch the last Juve game? They were utter rubbish. United hammered them and they didnt even play that well. Liverpool would have beaten Juve yesterday and thats saying something..

WhiteWashMan · 03-03-2003 4:02pm

liverpool still have no creative midfielder with a steady head.
they lost the cretivity they had when they won their 5 trophies when they got rid of mcallister.
the rest of the team just cannot seem to change pace or be creative without someone in midfield.
get someone of caliber in (and stop buying 10 million quid flops up front) the midfield and liverpool will becomean awsome team. one player to lift a mediocre team.
thats all they need.

Hobart · 03-03-2003 4:10pm

Dustaz and WWM. I posted the question how did Houlier outwit Fergusson. Now would you please stop taking the thread off topic.

Dusatz AFAIK United have won SFA this season or last. Yes I will concede that Liverpool need rebuilding and that United have a better team on thier day. But the one thing I can say for the 'mediocre' players at Liverpool is that they always try. Which is more than can be said for the €250,000,000 worth of male models at old Trafford. Now please back to the subject.

LizardKing · 03-03-2003 4:11pm

United have a quarter final place in Champions League and a slight chance of winning Premiership ... they have no domestic cup either

Liverpool have a quarter final place in UEFA Cup and an totally massive outside chance of getting top 4 in Prem. However they have won something , so if thats all they get at end of the season then its better than nothing.

Trouble is United still have to go on and win the competitions they are still in , Liverpool don't; anything extra they get would just be an added bonus...

saying "If they get a soft quarter final draw then they'll win without a doubt " is absurd , how in gods name can you predict such an event ..

Liverpool are looking to next season for Champions League / Premiership ( If they won the UEFA they get into Champs League , don't they ?)

woosaysdan · 03-03-2003 4:22pm

what happened yesterday was united didnt control mid-field there was no hard man in uniteds mid-field!!! keane is fu<ked!!! he's not the man he was a few seasons ago. gerrard ruled mid-field with strong tackles and good passing!!! united tried to out play liverpool and got stopped in their tracks by gerrard tackles!!! they can get away with this kind of passing in europe but not in the premiership! united need a new keane and my money is on o' shea

BKtje · 03-03-2003 4:27pm

I dont think Houllier outwitted ferguson. Houllier played his usual tactics and it seems to work very well against united who seem to need that little bit of extra room in order to do their thing. That said united still got chances and it was dudek/ henchoz who saved l'pool.

Liverpool i think played better on the day and thats why they won, simple as that. Houllier's tactics worked but i didnt see any real change in what either manager did than what they usually do.

Its always nice to see bad winners and sore loosers. I guess its cos the roles will be reversed one day and then it will be the other way around. Its a bloody vicious circle

Makaveli · 03-03-2003 4:29pm

Originally posted by LizardKing

Liverpool are looking to next season for Champions League / Premiership ( If they won the UEFA they get into Champs League , don't they ?)

No. They get into the Uefa Cup.
The thing is Liverpool will still probably finish in the top 6, which would be a European place anyway. I also think they will win the Uefa Cup this season.
The CL is looking well out of our reach at this stage, but if they start winning their games they maybe we might rob 4th place.

yop · 03-03-2003 4:33pm

But the one thing I can say for the 'mediocre' players at Liverpool is that they always try.

If they tried do you not honestly think that they would have a record of what, 2 wins in 15 matches??

Hobart - your a great man for posting when scouse win something, pity you were not around to defend your team when they were playin utter sh*te for the last 3 months. Get off the bandwagon, pool won, fair play to them, possibly the best game they have played since last October.

I did not see you around when the got knocked out of the FA cup, the CL and were beat by the brummies last weekend.

Truth is, scouse won the worthington cup, but ask anyone of the scouse players, the CL is the main competition to be in / win, scouse may not make be in it next season.

Hobart · 03-03-2003 4:44pm

Originally posted by yop
If they tried do you not honestly think that they would have a record of what, 2 wins in 15 matches??

Hobart - your a great man for posting when scouse win something, pity you were not around to defend your team when they were playin utter sh*te for the last 3 months. Get off the bandwagon, pool won, fair play to them, possibly the best game they have played since last October.

I did not see you around when the got knocked out of the FA cup, the CL and were beat by the brummies last weekend.

Truth is, scouse won the worthington cup, but ask anyone of the scouse players, the CL is the main competition to be in / win, scouse may not make be in it next season.

Yop is guys like you that put me off boards like this with your knee jerk reactions to everything.

Now if you look back at the 'tone' of my previous posts I have more or less said that Liverpool are a poor shadow of thier former glorious selves. They are in dire need of a fresh influx of quality players. My point is that for all the quality United have and for all the great games they play, such as the game last week against Juve, they still have the capacity to 'give up' when things are not going their way.

Take the FA cup game against Arsenal for example. Any trus fan would have been disgusted at the sight of that team in the second half. They simply gave up and lost all direction. My point is that Liverpool play to the best of thier ability, which currently is no where close to Uniteds, but in all games I have seen them play, including the last 20, they have tried and tried to the man. The same cannot be said for Manu U.

Truth is, scouse won the worthington cup, but ask anyone of the scouse players, the CL is the main competition to be in / win, scouse may not make be in it next season.

Truth is that Manc have won SFA last season or this. If they win the European Cup fair play to them. But IMO they have'nt a hope on current form.

dougal · 03-03-2003 4:45pm

Took me a while to work out what you were trying to say there but I think you are saying that the way Liverpool played had nothing got to do with the fact that United did not score.

Not exactly what I am saying - the tactics made it difficult for Utd to score but they are just tactics they can't prevent a team from scoring. They also mean that the attacking options are limited for Liverpool.

The tactics are to keep the game tight and this will give you a chance to win. Great but it also ensures that the opposition have the ball more and will rarely be more than a goal behind.

My point is that they seem to be the only tactics that Houllier knows and when they work - excellent Liverpool are worthington cup champs.

I was delighted to see them work yesterday but there is no way Houllier outwitted anyone!

Hobart · 03-03-2003 4:53pm

Originally posted by dougal
Not exactly what I am saying - the tactics made it difficult for Utd to score but they are just tactics they can't prevent a team from scoring.

Now I really am confused. "The tactics made it difficult for United to score" ok I can grasp that concept "but they were just tactics they can't prevent a team from scoring" what??????????????????????????????????????

Is that not what happened? And does that not contradict your previous statement? Look I tell you what. I agree. What ever it is you are trying to say I agree. My head hurts from trying to decipher your subliminal messages. Ok you win. Ok. Please no more. Pleeeeaaase.

SprostonGreen · 03-03-2003 11:26pm

He didnt outwit Fergie as such. They played drab negative tactics, and United didnt capitalise on their chances. Dudek won the game for them, still I'd rather have the three points we won from them in the league.

Best thing about it though, its taken the pressure of Houlier and he'll remain there for years to become masterminding more Championshipless seasons year after year.

Another pint of worthless anyone ?

Hobart · 03-03-2003 11:57pm

Originally posted by SprostonGreen
He didnt outwit Fergie as such. They played drab negative tactics, and United didnt capitalise on their chances. Dudek won the game for them, still I'd rather have the three points we won from them in the league.

Best thing about it though, its taken the pressure of Houlier and he'll remain there for years to become masterminding more Championshipless seasons year after year.

Another pint of worthless anyone ?

More drab bile. Look the point of this thread was not to start another "Lievrpool are the best no no no Utd are the best thread" If you want that look elsewhere on this board you'll have no problem. I certainly believe that the players and real fans who were there on Sunday did not think that the trophy was 'worthless'. In fact the trophy was that worthless to ManU that they fielded close to their best team. And the fans, both Manu and Liverpool wanted to beat each other.

If your opinion is that he did'nt outwit Fergusson well then good. Say that and give your opinion why. I genuinely asked the question because I believe that UTD have the better players and, but for a poor performance by Dudeck at Anfield last year, have found it difficult to beat Liverpool. Why? Is it Houlier outwitting Fergusson or what?

BTW how quickly you forget. When did Fergusson take the reins at Manu (86) I think (correct me if I am wrong). When did he win his first League champ (92). 6 Years! Not exactly a bolt out of the traps was it? So If you want to have a Manu V Liverpool flame session off you go to www.iliketalkings**te.com .

LizardKing · 04-03-2003 10:34am

Hey , That website must be down

In all honesty though I think that the Liverpool Players just raise their game for the Utd. Vs Pool clashes. However they cannot do this consistently against the weaker teams, which was one of there main problems this season...

Hobart · 04-03-2003 10:53am

Originally posted by LizardKing
Hey , That website must be down

In all honesty though I think that the Liverpool Players just raise their game for the Utd. Vs Pool clashes. However they cannot do this consistently against the weaker teams, which was one of there main problems this season...

Sorry LK that URL was posted in jest/frustration. It does not exist.

WhiteWashMan · 04-03-2003 10:57am

hey merc, is this your trolling account

Hobart · 04-03-2003 11:01am

Read my Sig WWM. Merc simply would not have the intelligence nor the graspy of the inglish langiuage to own this account.

Waylander · 04-03-2003 11:07am

I think that the performance from Liverpool was their best since the early season, but I also think it was a one off, raised because they played united. There was also a slight element of luck in that on another day Van Nistlerooys toe poke to Giggs' cross might have gone in and Liverpool would have been chasing the game. I look forward to revenge in the next league encounter. Hopefully us united fans won't be resorting to ifs and buts after that game.

Pepe LeFrits · 04-03-2003 12:56pm

Originally posted by Hobart
Read my Sig WWM. Merc simply would not have the intelligence nor the graspy of the inglish langiuage to own this account.

I think you mean untelligence.

TwoShedsJackson · 04-03-2003 1:03pm

Originally posted by SprostonGreen

Another pint of worthless anyone ?

Hahahahah, here we see again the bitter Man U fan, reduced to slagging a cup after his side have failed to win it

You'd probably be in here crowing about another (read 'second in three years') victory over Liverpool if Man U had won it.

BKtje · 04-03-2003 1:24pm

....
cant you ignore the obvious trolls? One guy makes a stupid comment and you insist on commenting on it which they gotta then comment on. fs try and break the circle.

Can i ask what Houllier exactly changed from his usual tactics to outwit ferguson?
and yes they did play negativley. By negatively i mean defend and hope to grab something , which in fairness, they did. They clung onto it for dear life. Nothing wrong with that and tbh, Man u did it in the league game after going 2 goals up. However that was last 15(?) mins while l'pool did it for 55 on sunday.

Still nothing wrong with doing that when you got a keeper as on form as dudek was that day

The cup itself isnt worth a lot in my eyes, but loosing to l'pool again is.

thegills · 04-03-2003 1:25pm

Liverpool's tactics are straight-forward. 8+ lads above 6-foot tall and Michael Owen. Every manager in the league knows this but it's only the crap teams that seem to beat them. Arsenal drew twice, Utd. won a dubios game 2-0 (handed 2 goals). Newcastle won with a deflection.

I can't explain why Utd. can't beat the 'Pool. Perhaps they try too hard or perhaps the other teams in the league show Utd. too much respect.

I suppose to compare both teams, Becksie turned his back on Gerrards shot and stuck out his leg as a token gesture. He was afraid of getting hit with the ball. In the second half Henchoz threw his whole body in front of a Scholesy shot and blocked it.

The great Liverpool team of Souness etc. hardly played with wingers but won everything in sight.

What made a difference yesterday was that more than half the 'Pool team played well as opposed to recent weeks.

Dudek was class.
Diuof showed up Silvestre for the crap full-back he is
Owen showed how rubbish Ferdinand is.
Gerrard kicked lumps out of Keane and Veron.
Hyppia limited Van Kneesalright to a hatful of half-chances
Dudek was brilliant
Murphy ran rings around Neville.

All the 'Pool players knew they were fighting for their futures and it finally hit home yesterday. If they can keep that level of performance going then they'll surely make the CL.

What pleased me most was the sight of Traore, Diao and Biscan celebrating Owens goal - it proved that squad moral is still there.

Space Coyote · 04-03-2003 3:20pm

did ye see dudek pointing at houllier during the celebrations and smiling?
houllier had told jerzy t'other day that he would end up man of the match.
if houllier is indeed a clairvoyant, then surely he could have 'seen' that its time heskey was offloaded. he was muck times infinity...
any thoughts?

Waylander · 04-03-2003 3:34pm

Yeah, give Heskey a break. I think he is a good strong player, but the way Liverpool play does not suit him. In fact if they are determined to play that I think he should be playing Baros and Owen, as btoh of them are quick enough to catch the ball over the top before most defenders.

Diuof showed up Silvestre for the crap full-back he is

I disagree with that. Yes Diouf ran rings around Silvestre on the day, but I think Silvestre is one of the most improved players in the premiership over the last couple of seasons. He was a poor player about three seasons ago.

Gerrard kicked lumps out of Keane and Veron.

I thought Keane held his own in midfield. Definitely would not say Gerard kicked lumps out of him.

Hyppia limited Van Kneesalright to a hatful of half-chances

I used to think he was the best centre back in the Premiership till a couple of Liverpool fans told me that he is very overrated. I am now inclined to agree, he was good when they won the treble but since then I think Henchoz has been the better player. Never seen a defender who can throw his body in the way of so many shots. But neither of them really did well on Van Nistlerooy at the weekend. He had several chances, one drifted just past the post and Dudeck saved the rest.

jonno · 05-03-2003 11:06am

I diagree. I think Hyppia is one of GH's best buys and as such is a better defender than Henchoz. He's a better all round player than Henchoz. Henchoz can be a tad slow at times.

Anyway someone mentioned about Ferguson being at Utd six years before bringing the championship there. I think the Liverpool heirarchy should forget about GH's health problems and give him an ultimatum. "Win the championship or you're out!!" Then he and they will have no excuses to talk crap anymore. Still though he did a great job on Sunday and it sunk in that Risse is a better full back than Traore

darthmise · 05-03-2003 5:29pm

Originally posted by Hobart

First of all get your facts straight. What you have said above in untrue. and I quote "Liverpool have come from behind in only one of their last 45 games to win." That's total crap. Secondly you are so typical of the minority of Manu supporters who bitch and moan everytime they get beaten by a better team on the day. Read the papers. Look at the web Utd Lossssssssssst Liverpool WON! Simple as that!

Fair enough. I didn't mean to pass it off as an official stat. But it is abysmal, somewhere it that region, or maybe two in 40. So its not TOTAL crap.

Secondly, i'm not a utd fan who bitches and moans every time we lose. But being honest this one hurt me more than any defeat i can remember. First time in my life we've lost a final to the pool. Sickener.
I feel we came out and tried to play, alright we were crap, but at least we played football.
I don't think Houllier went out of his way to out-fox Ferguson. Liverpool play like that against everyone. It suits them down to the ground against us.

So am i sore about it.., yes, am i a blinkered utd fan.., no.

Originally posted by Hobart
My point is that for all the quality United have and for all the great games they play, such as the game last week against Juve, they still have the capacity to 'give up' when things are not going their way.

The one team in the country with a reputation for fighting every inch to the final whistle and you come out with that?! :rolleyes:

Hobart · 05-03-2003 6:12pm

Fair enough. I didn't mean to pass it off as an official stat

Well if its untrue its untrue. United only won one European Cup. Now thats untrue. They have won two. But they were over 30 years apart so its nearly true isn't it? Yes? No? So it's not total crap is it? Yes/No? Yes it is. If you say, and again I quote "Liverpool have come from behind in only one of their last 45 games to win." Well its 2 things in my book:

a) Wrong and
b) Total Crap

There is no black and white about that statement you made. It is made up and wrong. OK.

But being honest this one hurt me more than any defeat i can remember

Good. Try being a Liverpool fan for the last 13 years and you will know what dissapointment and hurt are (And little moments of joy such as last Sunday).

First time in my life we've lost a final to the pool.

You must be fairly young then.

Liverpool play like that against everyone. It suits them down to the ground against us.

I don't see your point there? So what if they do? And if they do why could Fergusson not counter that?

The one team in the country with a reputation for fighting every inch to the final whistle and you come out with that?!

You obviously missed the second half of the FA cup game against Arsenal then. Fighting to the last minute? I don't think so.

BKtje · 05-03-2003 6:57pm

Tbh Man U fight to the end in the majority of matches where they are losing by one. If your two down against a side the quality of arsenal (or unbreachable like l'pool were on sunday ) your hardly gonna magic 2 goals in the little time remaining.

Man u if they are trailing and there is a hope of fighting back you can always count on them to try it.
There are plenty of game where man u have won/drawn matches in the last few mins, including injury time. There are very few sides in the Premiership who do this on a regular basis.

Granted it hasnt been happening as much of late as it used to but it does still happen.

Why didn't ferguson counter? i guess he didnt know how/didnt feel it was necessary as L'pool usually play quite badly. Guess thats not the first time Sir Alex has underestimated an opponent/tactic and im sure wont be the last.

Hobart · 06-03-2003 12:39pm

Is it not wonderful how Ironic Irony can be? Anybody see the Manu game/highlights last night? Even Fergusson was prompted to say that they "Batten down the hatches". Fight to the last minute? Again I don't think so. You do what you have to do. Full stop.

Space Coyote · 06-03-2003 1:36pm

You play to your strengths. Liverpool pretty much have to play defensive, counter-attacking football whether we like it or not, because of the lack of talented wide players and playmakers.
After a dodgy spell last season even Ferguson said that he wished Utd could get back to playing the way Liverpool were at the time.
When/if the Pool get in some talented footballers this summer, we will see the tactics change for the better.

One can only hope...

mada999 · 06-03-2003 1:44pm

If you ask me, Arsenal are the most counter attacking team in the premiership, all they do is give pires the ball when an opponents attack is broken down and he gives it to henry (speedy gonzales) and he tries to score. He's a great runner and he has skill but he hasnt got natural scoring ability like shearer or fowler. . .

Space Coyote · 06-03-2003 1:51pm

you have to admit henry is pure class, surely. if he had shearers or fowlers finishing skills he would probably be the greatest footballer ever imo

:eek:

mada999 · 06-03-2003 2:01pm

true he is a good player miles above most premiership players . . . . .

Worthington Cup triumph. How does Houllier outwit Ferguson

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