Welcome to the new world order Ireland

Sand

That's somewhat ironic coming from someone who apparently spent christmas day (and probably all of valentines day as well) on these boards banging on and on about hating the french and his relatives and the public and books and christ knows who or what else.

Von, wheres this bitter, petty, hateful personal attack coming from? Dont you know that on "grown -up" boards youre supposed to attack the post and not the poster? Im a nice guy so Ill just assume youve got a lot of anger issues, and need to work on your self control and social skills. Try to use your posts to put forward, defend and evaluate opinions and cases - bitter rants against other posters arent valuable to anyone.

Heres, lets use the case/opinion you devoted a whole 50% of your post to as an example...

re Indymedia. Eamonn Crudden was featured in Phoenix's Youngbloods section and it was a fairly flattering profile but they did suggest that he trim some of the content which can be wanky. The head of the arts council told me a while ago she was impressed by the site - by the DIY spirit behind it perhaps more than the content. They do ok with no resources and the regular media haven't been too shy about using some of their work anyway.

So in summary she reckoned they were decent amateur web site designers but a rubbish news site? If this is your counter to my opinion indymedia is a laughable propaganda website then I can see why you feel you have to resort to personal attacks.

Von

Originally posted by Sand
Von, wheres this bitter, petty, hateful personal attack coming from? Dont you know that on "grown -up" boards youre supposed to attack the post and not the poster?

Scuse me, I thought that your original post indicated you were up for a bit of poster attacking. Wrong there obviously.

If you're going to slag off activists I for one would like to see it done with some spirit and humour at least, like this attack on greenpeace protesters here.

So in summary she reckoned they were decent amateur web site designers but a rubbish news site? If this is your counter to my opinion indymedia is a laughable propaganda website then I can see why you feel you have to resort to personal attacks.

No the content wasn't discussed at all cos she was talking principally about the effect the internet could have on the creation and dissemination of art and stuff and cited Indymedia as a successful example of a non-commercial cooperative international project. My point is that it's taken seriously as a source of information and sometimes acts as an interesting counterbalance to accounts of events we're more used to getting. Personally I think newswire thing is crap, it's like the Herald's 'letters' page. And I would like to see the site feature lots of tits. Like the Sindo.

Sand

Scuse me, I thought that your original post indicated you were up for a bit of poster attacking. Wrong there obviously.

If you're going to slag off activists I for one would like to see it done with some spirit and humour at least, like this attack on greenpeace protesters here.

Oh right. Hmm, well I guess then that would be exscusable except Indymedia - either collectively or independantly- havent posted on the thread as far I know so I couldnt be personally attacking a poster? As far as I understood it I was questioning the grip on reality of a group/organisation - are we not allowed to do that anymore?

This seemed to press your button or hit a raw nerve or something - Im sorry if you felt this was somehow a slur on you or your bedroom, or even the bedrooms of the indymedia activists. And as for criticising activists? Werent they supposed to be an independant media organisation reporting the "truth"? Now theyre activists - and thus must be biased by logic?

As for humourous criticism - I respect your views on political humour but Im afraid Im not bothered with dressing up valid criticism as some sort of bad joke just for kudos, in the process weakening the point originally intended. See your last sentence in your post - this is apaprently sarcasm/wit whatever....I read it and go yadayada, any point intended being swamped by the sheer banality of the sarcasm.

No the content wasn't discussed at all cos she was talking principally about the effect the internet could have on the creation and dissemination of art and stuff and cited Indymedia as a successful example of a non-commercial cooperative international project. My point is that it's taken seriously as a source of information and sometimes acts as an interesting counterbalance to accounts of events we're more used to getting. Personally I think newswire thing is crap, it's like the Herald's 'letters' page. And I would like to see the site feature lots of tits. Like the Sindo.

Well thats just great - I call the site a laughable propagandist and to counter this your state thats its respected as a non-commercial international project, without any mention of the content. Sorry, Im lost - Im glad theyre a nice bunch of international lads and whatever - how does this change their site being laughable propaganda? And on top of this you now describe them as activists rather than independant sources of information. Like I said, if this is your counter Im beginning to understand why your first instinct in a post is to launch a petty personal attack.

Von

Originally posted by Sand
This seemed to press your button or hit a raw nerve or something - Im sorry if you felt this was somehow a slur on you or your bedroom, or even the bedrooms of the indymedia activists.

No I find it funny that someone who is so sad that they spent christmas squatting on the internet babbling about their ridiculous prejudices actually has the nerve to accuse someone else of more or less having no life.

And as for criticising activists? Werent they supposed to be an independant media organisation reporting the "truth"? Now theyre activists - and thus must be biased by logic?

Indymedia people refer to themselves as activists, essentially because they're amateurs doing a job professionals can't or won't do.

As for humourous criticism - I respect your views on political humour but Im afraid Im not bothered with dressing up valid criticism as some sort of bad joke just for kudos, in the process weakening the point originally intended.

Seriously? You're incapable of making any point in any thread without making boring snide cliche ridden comments about people with 'loser jobs', about Bonkey's poor grasp of the English language, about lazy germans, about all foreigners in fact, particularly the french for some reason, and most bizarrely, about students, even though you like to brag about when you actually were one. That style of argument doesn't bother me but don't pretend you're interested in 'valid criticism'.

See your last sentence in your post - this is apaprently sarcasm/wit whatever....I read it and go yadayada, any point intended being swamped by the sheer banality of the sarcasm.

Too subtle for you then. Perhaps you're just not as familiar with the Sindo as I am.

Well thats just great - I call the site a laughable propagandist and to counter this your state thats its respected as a non-commercial international project, without any mention of the content. Sorry, Im lost - Im glad theyre a nice bunch of international lads and whatever - how does this change their site being laughable propaganda?

If the site was laughable propaganda then why did Phoenix do a nice profile on Mr.Crudden and why do proper media organisations ask them consistently for interviews and video footage?

Anyway back up your claim that the site is laughable propaganda. What is so objectionable about the 'Shannon Peace Protests Face Massive Garda Operation.' report? It seemed to be consistent with reports in the regular media. Unless you think everyone in the media is a sneaky communist workshy propagandist because they fail to report what you want to believe.

MDR

I find it very amusing that anyone could read the indymedia site and claim it to be an independent media ... I didn't find much of the Garda/Government side of the story.

MrPudding

Originally posted by Gavin
Err sorry - last time I checked Steyr AG's were machine guns - and can kill people. As for tanks - Scorpions. I believe I did see them on RTE news - and an awful lot of razor wire.

Perhaps I am mistaken.

I hate to be a pedant but the steyr is not a machinegun it is an assault rifle. Further, it is a 5.56mm rifle not 9mm or 45mm (should have read the whole thread before posting sorry.) as someone else pointed out.

Victor

Originally posted by Gavin
Err sorry - last time I checked Steyr AG's were machine guns - and can kill people. As for tanks - Scorpions. I believe I did see them on RTE news -

The Steyr AUG (Armeé Universal Gewehr - Universal Army Rifle) is an assault rifle and while there is a model that can be used in the light machine gun role, the Irish Amry doesn't have it. The [url=http://www.nasog.net/datasheets/armour/tanks/Alvis_Scorpion_Reconnaissance_Vehicle.htm[/url]Scorpion[/url] is a reconnaissance vehicle - it's only about seven feet tall and about fifteen feet long and made of aluminium. It weights 8 tonnes compared to 40-60 tonnes for a tank. You might have seen some Mowag Piranha armoured personnel carriers.

Originally posted by Gavin
and an awful lot of razor wire.

Which is good, razor wire only hurts those who want to be hurt / risk being hurt.

Originally posted by Cork
After September 11th - Our airports need protection.

Yes, but they also needed it before then and even now it is not being provided. Both Aer Rianta and the government are liable and have done nothing but respond to the protesters, they have done nothing pro-actively to improve perimeter security.

Originally posted by Cork
People caused many euros of damage to US aircraft costing the Irish taxpayer at this airport.

No. I spoke to the PDs parliamentary assistant (Susan?) and she can't substantiate this claim and isn't returning my messages. Why would we have to pay? If, say Ryanair, thrash my luggage will the government pay me?

Originally posted by MDR
I find it very amusing that anyone could read the indymedia site and claim it to be an independent media ... I didn't find much of the Garda/Government side of the story.

Then again the Irish Independant isn't very independant either.

bonkey

OK...despite my asking, it seems people are not listening.

Let me say this nice and clearly :

Give up with the posts on what a Steyr is. And scorpions, and whatever else hardware that has nothing to do with the discussion.

I tried to make it clear that I was posting the information to avoid a continuing pointless thread about guns in this topic. Obviously I was wrong.

If you have posted Steyr crap after this because you replied before you read the entire thread, then go and edit/delete your post now.

Any post following this which ignores the above will be deleted in its entirety.

jc

Sand

No I find it funny that someone who is so sad that they spent christmas squatting on the internet babbling about their ridiculous prejudices actually has the nerve to accuse someone else of more or less having no life.

Sigh. More personal abuse Von? Lies and willful misinterpretation thrown in along with a healthy dose of petty bitterness. When will you learn youre not in the playground anymore?

Indymedia people refer to themselves as activists, essentially because they're amateurs doing a job professionals can't or won't do.

They probably refer to themselves as activists as they were founded as claimed by their website as a PR link from the activists to the wider media looking for information on the Seattle rioters. They arent an independant media organisation getting the "truth" out there. Theyre a biased organisation putting out the left wings position/propaganda for the gullible who believe if its got independant on it then it must be true.

Seriously? You're incapable of making any point in any thread without making boring snide cliche ridden comments about people with 'loser jobs', about Bonkey's poor grasp of the English language, about lazy germans, about all foreigners in fact, particularly the french for some reason, and most bizarrely, about students, even though you like to brag about when you actually were one. That style of argument doesn't bother me but don't pretend you're interested in 'valid criticism'.

Dearie me, even more personal abuse Von, tell me - is the abuse padding for the rest of your post or is it the other way round - And I count 4 lies and a distortion in your abuse of me, but then what am I to expect?:)

If the site was laughable propaganda then why did Phoenix do a nice profile on Mr.Crudden and why do proper media organisations ask them consistently for interviews and video footage?

Why do they ask politicians for interviews, or ask players for their thoughts on a game? Because their independant media organisations or because theyre actually deeply involved in what the current "story" is about? IndyMedia wasnt founded to provide a balanced, fair and accurate account of the news - Its simply out there to get across the Lefts views - i.e. propaganda.

Von, In closing Id ask you to stick to your view that the IndyMedia are fair and balanced, weak a view as I think this is, and as I believe Ive shown this to be. Whilst you seem have a fondness for descending to playground abuse youll have to realise youre not there anymore - If youve not got a good enough case then abusing posters who disagree with you is not going to make it sound any better, especially when you have to invent exscuses to launch abusive tirades on people. I hope in time youll gain the maturity required to rise above your apparent love of personal attacks. Let go of your anger Von, and get out there on wonderfully sunny days like today.

gandalf

I've closed this because it was turning into the Von & Sand show.

Lads if you want to have a discussion on the merits of Indymedia or any other news organisation then start a topic, if it degenerates into a tired little b!tchfight like this then I'll be banning.

And remember bonkey has me one nil down today already and I hate being losing

Gandalf.