Daddy... I don't want to die

daveg

We were driving to work yesterday when my 3 1/2 year old son said "Mammy/Daddy I don't want to get old because I don't want to die". We looked at each other in amazment wondering where he had heard this (no doubt at his creche). All we could say was that we all live on forever in heaven with God.


What can you say to a 3 1/2 year old child ? How do you reassure them - but making sure you tell the truth ?

Chowmein

Well I’m just a little one my self, so feel free to dismiss this:

When I presented this question to my parents (as far as I can remember I was about the same age, maybe a year or two younger/older), they explained it from a few different perspectives, Religious, Scientific and there personal ones (which I wont go into seen as I wouldn’t do them justice as there not my own). I found the scientific explanation (Everything being energy, energy not being destructible only changeable) rather uncomfortable at first and stuck with a vague religious for a year or two, but gave up on it (I was technically agnostic at the time, but became atheist). I was fairly ok with just using the scientific for basis of my own theories on till I got to my early pre-teens, when I started to lean back towards quasi-religious (it happened to be reincarnation). When I got to about 12 I dismissed the Religious explanation again, seen as I felt I was just using it to shield my self from what I really thought.

That’s held up for me to this point (and I’m pretty certain that this isn’t going to change any time soon), and even though, when I was younger, I wished I had a more concrete explanation (like "we all live on forever in heaven with God"), I’m glad that my parents decided to show me a few paths and letting me decide for my self when I was young, rather then not giving me a choice in the matter and leaving the chance that believes that where firmly imbedded in my understanding of the world, only to have them fall apart and leaving me in a situation where I didn’t know what to believe in (which would have been fairly likely, as I have never fully believed in a higher being or Religious text in my life) at a possibly critical part of my life. Sure it was hard to get to the point I am at (where I’m fairly comfortable atm) but I feel it would have been harder (and possibly dangerous) for me if I hadn’t dealt with it when I was younger.

I don’t really know what the point of writing all that was tbh, and especially don’t want anyone to feel I’m trying to tell anyone how to raise there kids, but felt I should write it for some reason. I also apoligise if it isnt very coherent.

-Chow

Edit: Just wanted to ask as well, do you thing its suitable for non-parent minors to be replying here? as there is a few other threads i have tought of replying to but didnt feal it was my place to do so.

daveg

I don’t really know what the point of writing all that was tbh, and especially don’t want anyone to feel I’m trying to tell anyone how to raise there kids, but felt I should write it for some reason. I also apoligise if it isnt very coherent.

No it wasn't a waste of time but it would be impossible to explain the different paths to a 3 year old. I take your point though.

Edit: Just wanted to ask as well, do you thing its suitable for non-parent minors to be replying here? as there is a few other threads i have tought of replying to but didnt feal it was my place to do so.

imo I think everyone who wants to reply/start a thread should do so. Just because your not a parent doesn't mean you don't have an opinion. And don't worry if your talking bollox well just ignore it anyway

Thanks for the reply.

Nevyn

chow you are the product of ur parents skillz and there for have points to make


As for that question will kids are getting smater younger.
our 5 year old asked what happens when you die and why do peopel die. We had a death in the exteneded family and that what started all the questions.

I explained that well it only our bodies that die and it is cos we get old or sick or our boadies get broken but the part that makes him special is his soul and that will not die not ever.

But as i do believe in higher beings and recarnation i told him that we have lives to live out and when we have learned all we need we have to go start a new one, thats the plan.

It is not easy to explain it to young children but they will accept what you tell them

there is a quote from The Crow that struck me way before i had kids and I swore it would not hold true for mine.

" Childhood is over the day you know you are going to die. "

death is one of the may cycles of life like when the trees loss thier leaves and go to sleep for the winter. I did not see the point for frightening my children about it at all. The only sad thing I told my boy about death is that we miss the person that is gone but once we remember them and talk about them then the love is still there.

DeVore

I used to think about stuff like that all the time as a kid. I first knew it was going to happen when my grandfather died.

I was distraught but I also was smart enough to know when I was being lied to.

I found it extremely depressing and I would say you should deal with your childs fears honestly and in manner they can understand.

saying "grandma has gone away on a long vacation" doesnt fool kids and undermines their belief in you. Kids need to grieve too if they are exposed to death.

What you're beliefs are will dictate what you feel you should tell them but you should reassure them that you arent going anywhere and neither are they.

Tough one though...

DeV.

Victor

My niece was scared to death (!) at age 2 of being shot, even though she didn't know what it was, just that it was a very bad thing.

I turned 30 last year and well I'm having similar fears about death.

Hobart

Tough one.

Having recently gone through a very tramatic time involving a death I can empitise with the question. I was posed with the question of "where is uncle John gone" from my (at the time) 3YO. The way we dealt with it was to simplify it i.e. Uncle John has gone to Heaven and is with God. Now! I am not a religious person and I have had RC stamped on by Birth Cert, etc.......

However I am a non practising whatever and TBH I don't know what to believe. But thats neither here nor there. The fact is that as a parent you have a very very unique opportunty and that is to have some influence on the development and the upbringing of your child.

It's an easy thing to forget that children are children especially in modern times. So, although I hate to say it, I felt I lied to my daughter to ease her understanding of what had happened. I would suggest you do the same daveg and make your sons perception of 'death' a simple fact of life.

Sometimes honesty can be too honest IMO.

daveg

Folks - thanks a million for the reply's so far.

However I have more to add to the story My GF was putting my son to bed last night and he started the conversation again.

We told him that he wouldn't get old for a long long time and then when he does die he will be with god in heaven. We were explaining the transition like a journey - not you die, your body is buried in the ground and your soul goes to heaven - but more you go to heaven (a place) to be with god.

He ended up in tears saying he didn't want to get old and die (he is fixated that he will die when he gets old - and as yet has no concept of time, so a long long time may not seem that long to him). He was also saying what if god takes me/Mammy/Daddy - I don't want to go to heaven I want to stay with you.

Our own approach is that we are honest with him. I feel this is very important. Neither of us are very religious but we believe in god (or higher being if you like) and that our souls go on after we die. I think it is important for us to tell him about god and heaven and let him make his own mind up when he gets older.

We will have a chat with his teacher in Montessori as no doubt this is stemming from school. suffice to say it is very very upsetting to see your son like this and for him to be having these thoughts. I think this is the hardest thing we have had to deal with so far I'd even prefer the birds and the bees question

Victor

Perhaps you should reassure him and say "We won't let anything happen to you" and "we are going to be together for a very long time" or something similar. (Just be prepared to back them up.)

daveg

well we found the source of he problems. He loves spiderman (I know he's only 3 1/2) and I think he's getting it from the part where the grandad dies.

commuterised

when I was 11 I was terrified of being shot, I used to have terrible nightmares about it. I don't know where it came from but I do remember gaining reassurance from my parents that this happening to me was highly unlikely. Kids want their parents to protect them and unfortunately they can't always do that. It makes me sad to think that such a young child is already scared of dying. Curious to see where he got it from, keep us posted.

for what it's worth I think you seem like a wonderful father....

daveg

when I was 11 I was terrified of being shot, I used to have terrible nightmares about it. I don't know where it came from but I do remember gaining reassurance from my parents that this happening to me was highly unlikely. Kids want their parents to protect them and unfortunately they can't always do that. It makes me sad to think that such a young child is already scared of dying. Curious to see where he got it from, keep us posted.

Thanks for the reply. It would appear spiderman was the problem - the part where the Uncle gets shot. I know my son is ony 4 but he loves spiderman - what can you do.

In the end we told him the truth. That when we get old we go up to heaven with God and we live there with all our family forever. We also bought him a book about a badger that is very old. He can't see properly and needs a walking stick. One day he walks through a tunnel of light and can once again see properly and no longer needs his walking stick. He plays with all his friends like when he was young (tear runs down my cheek ).

Anyway you have to tell the truth but there are reassuring ways of doing it. Perhaps this has made me think of my own mortality and that sometimes depresses me (fvcking hell I'm only 28 ).

for what it's worth I think you seem like a wonderful father....

Why thank you /blushes

Talliesin

Originally posted by Thaed
there is a quote from The Crow that struck me way before i had kids and I swore it would not hold true for mine.

" Childhood is over the day you know you are going to die. "

Side-question, at what age do you really know you are going to die? (Arguably this is most often around 40ish).

Sadhbh asked me where you went when you died this weekend. I told her some people think you are born again as a baby, and some people think you go to a nice place called heaven and some people have other ideas. She seemed to like the reincarnation idea best. Funnily I worried that by telling her more than one answer I'd confuse her or leave her feeling that I hadn't really given her and answer, but she seemed happy enough that there were answers, even if she didn't necessarily know which was the right one.

deimos

I am currently 18,
When I was 4 or 5 I had similar thaughts about death and roughly a year ago my 8 year old sister had some similar ideas in the area of death(cried herself to sleep a few times), but i passed though it, and after 3 or 4 months she passed though it also......
The 4 year old next door had some similar problems for a few weeks and she passed though it. I have heard lots about children with this problem now and have experienced it to some degree.
I think its a phase all children go through in my opinion, just give them support, thats what I was given and I ended up more or less fine, but I am not a parent so my area of expertiese in this area is rather limited...........

daveg

Originally posted by deimos
I am currently 18,
When I was 4 or 5 I had similar thaughts about death and roughly a year ago my 8 year old sister had some similar ideas in the area of death(cried herself to sleep a few times), but i passed though it, and after 3 or 4 months she passed though it also......
The 4 year old next door had some similar problems for a few weeks and she passed though it. I have heard lots about children with this problem now and have experienced it to some degree.
I think its a phase all children go through in my opinion, just give them support, thats what I was given and I ended up more or less fine, but I am not a parent so my area of expertiese in this area is rather limited...........

I suppose it is a huge thing to a child... realising that one day they will die. As you say all we can do is give them support. It's now been about 3 months since he started thinking about it and he still mentions it. Even this morning he said "where is heaven". We said it was up above the clouds. He then asked "but where would you get money to live and where would you work" (we explained to my son that we have to work to buy food/pay morgage/buy toys/holidays ect ect). I told him everything is free in heaven so we don't have to work. He says "I'm not going to heaven... heaven stinks. LoL what can you do...

deimos

daveg, your only other option may be to bring your child to a psychologist? or even just get in contact with one..... they would have dealt with things like this before, just an idea

daveg

Originally posted by deimos
daveg, your only other option may be to bring your child to a psychologist? or even just get in contact with one..... they would have dealt with things like this before, just an idea

No... I think that would be extreme. He's not obsessing about the subject.. just showing a healthy interest I think. He no longer has nightmares or seems overly concered.

deimos

good to hear:), was prolly just a phase

McGinty

Daveg

By any chance do you have a garden? I ask because gardening or even plants / nature is an ideal way to discuss death I feel without scaring the child or forcing your views onto the child.

My five year old has asked the death question, and I always use analogy (at present though he is fascinated with bodily functions and male / female bits). However I explained to him how flowers come up in the spring, bloom in the summer and wither and die in the winter, but then they go through the same process again and again. It may help if you take your son for a nature walk or something like that, so he can see for himself how it works, or if he shows an interest in gardening, he could help you and learn that way. For me it has helped with awkward questions.

It is commendable though the way you are handling it, parenting is a tough job. Good luck

Also it is my belief that children develop different phobias, for your son it is death, but it will pass and sounds like he is getting over it.

daveg

McGinty - an excellent idea. I will def use that if the question comes up again (no doubt it will).

The birds and the bees... that'll be a tricky one... :eek:

Slutmonkey57b

I would strongy disagree with presenting the situation to the child in religious terms unless you are a) very religious yourself and b) are certain that you can explain away the difficulties of taking faith on board. An agnostic who can't rationalise their own belief has no chance of explaining that belief to a child.

In this case, daveg you are finding that telling the child the "truth" and thinking that this would satisfy him as much as it does you does not work - the wonderful (and tiring) thing about children is that they are totally exhaustively interested in the world.
If you say "Oh we all go up to heaven with god" then you'll be brought up short sharpish with "who's god" and "where's heaven" and "what's a soul" and "where's the soul" and the like. As someone with faith you may not need these questions answered, but a child will want the answers. If you don't have them, or worse, if your answers have obvious holes in them (removing faith, much religious argument does), then all you are doing is opening up another can of worms with the child.

He says "I'm not going to heaven... heaven stinks. LoL what can you do...

In this comment, your explaination to the child has really effectivly failed. By presenting heaven as the "kind solution" to the problem of death, you had hoped not only to ease the anxiety of the realisation of mortality, but to ease in a sugar pill of "oh well it's ok you don't die really." But the evidence the child has points exactly to the contrary. He's seen the holes in your explaination ad doesn't like them. As to the explaination that plant shoot, seed, die off and come back - where does that leave the permanance of death? Is the child going to believe that Uncle Joe is going to come back next year.

Children are constantly asking questions because they always want to know what's going on. Being honest with them about the big issues in life doesn't mean having to scare them - you don't have to sing them Dennis Leary's chorus of "life's gonna suck when you grow up..." - but they're a lot more capable of taking information on than we like to believe of them. And like it or not they have to face mortality sooner or later - you have to equip them to know what to expect.

daveg

Slutmonkey57b I think your overreacting. Do you have kids yourself? Every child goes though a stage where they question what happens when they die. I know I did and most other people I have spoken to have as well. We decided to approach the explanation from the religious point of view (God/Heaven ect ect) not because we are especially religious but because we feel that we want our child to have a religious base to start from. A knowledge of god and what happens (in our belief) when we die. As he gets older he can make up his own mind as to what he believes.

If you say "Oh we all go up to heaven with god" then you'll be brought up short sharpish with "who's god" and "where's heaven" and "what's a soul" and "where's the soul" and the like. As someone with faith you may not need these questions answered, but a child will want the answers. If you don't have them, or worse, if your answers have obvious holes in them (removing faith, much religious argument does), then all you are doing is opening up another can of worms with the child.

Please do not think we "fobbed" our child off with a quick lesson about God. We took time to fully explain and answer questions. We bought him a book called Badgers gifts, which is specifically written for a child's first interests in what happens when we die.

In this comment, your explanation to the child has really effectively failed. By presenting heaven as the "kind solution" to the problem of death, you had hoped not only to ease the anxiety of the realisation of mortality, but to ease in a sugar pill of "oh well it's ok you don't die really." But the evidence the child has points exactly to the contrary. He's seen the holes in your explanation ad doesn't like them. As to the explanation that plant shoot, seed, die off and come back - where does that leave the permanence of death? Is the child going to believe that Uncle Joe is going to come back next year.

I think you are overreacting here. His comment that heaven stinks was merely because (same as most of us) he does not want to die, nor does he want his parents to die/go to heaven and be taken away from him.

Children are constantly asking questions because they always want to know what's going on. Being honest with them about the big issues in life doesn't mean having to scare them - you don't have to sing them Dennis Leary's chorus of "life's gonna suck when you grow up..." - but they're a lot more capable of taking information on than we like to believe of them. And like it or not they have to face mortality sooner or later - you have to equip them to know what to expect.

So what are you suggesting we say to him? "Daragh Mammy and Daddy will grow old and die and we really don't know what will happen then. Perhaps you will never see us again. Yes I know your scared/upset/traumatized but hey that’s life".

I'm very curious to know if you have kids yourself. Also I would be even more interested in hearing how you would have explained your own beliefs without being cruel and upsetting the child.

To summaries we didn't sugarcoat our explanation nor did we water it down. We told him what we believe - that when we die we will go to heaven.

Slutmonkey57b

I have two kids but please don't think I'm over-reacting. But I think there is a confusion of issue here between what the child is asking and what we as parents feel able to provide.

By presenting a religious explaination for the question the child (especially one that young) inevitably will come up with a quandry. On the one hand he is being given an explaination that there is no way of verifying or even observing - one that has no evidence to support it other than religious faith, which he has no reference for. A child that young necessarily will take everything at face value - if you see it, it's there, if you don't, it isn't. (There's a good article in this month's New Scientist on the subject.) On the other hand, Mummy and Daddy are telling him that this explaination is correct. To him, your word is inviolate. Whatever you tell him is true. Nothing in his experience will tell him otherwise than that Mummy and Daddy are his guides through the world. So even if he hasn't swallowed the explaination he's given, he must accept it because of who it comes from, or else accept that Mummy and Daddy don't know it all after all.

His comment that heaven stinks was merely because (same as most of us) he does not want to die, nor does he want his parents to die/go to heaven and be taken away from him.

I don't agree. If you think about what he said in that case, he was being presented with an explaination of what heaven is and how it works. His response is "Heaven Stinks." Not "Dying stinks". ie Heaven is not up to scratch and isn't worth it. Or isn't the reward it's made up to be. Whether this is because he thinks that people should be allowed to stay here with their loved ones instead of dying or whether it is because people don't go to the cinema in heaven the result is the same - he is unimpressed.

So what are you suggesting we say to him? "Daragh Mammy and Daddy will grow old and die and we really don't know what will happen then. Perhaps you will never see us again. Yes I know your scared/upset/traumatized but hey that’s life".

What would be wrong with that? It's an honest answer. This situation, as you report, came about after he saw the Spiderman film - should a three year old be watching that film? It has a restricted rating on it for a reason. People get murdered, and robbed, and die in it. Seeing people get murdered should be much more a cause for concern than what you're posting here. You don't want to say to your child "Everybody dies, kid. Some people believe some God helps you out afterwards and rewards you." because you think this might be traumatic? The film he's just seen shows him not only that people die and leave their loved ones behind, but also that some people are evil and want to kill other people. And that bad things happen to nice people for no reason. Do you really think that isn't equally traumatic?

Having exposed the child to these questions and upset, you could at least be even-handed when dealing with the aftermath - but the problem there is that when causing the situation (by bringing him to the film) it was a case of "Ah sure he loves spiderman what can you do lol" - simple parenting reaction of "oh let him have it he loves it really." We like it to happen because giving him what he wants makes him happy which makes us happy. If we as parents showed backbone we'd analyse these things more. Now that there is a consequence to this then you shouldn't shirk from it either.

We decided to approach the explanation from the religious point of view (God/Heaven ect ect) not because we are especially religious but because we feel that we want our child to have a religious base to start from. A knowledge of god and what happens (in our belief) when we die. As he gets older he can make up his own mind as to what he believes.

Surely by telling him at this age that the god answer is the "right" or "true" answer, you are preventing him from making up his own mind?

daveg

Slutmonkey57b I have a feeling this could turn into a flame war and this argument could go on forever so I'll try to keep my reply as brief as possible.

Firstly both my girlfriend and myself have decided how we want to approach the answer to my child’s question. You have your opinion and have decided that you disagree with mine. That’s fine. You have the right to have you opinion and I respect that. Perhaps you could respect the fact that we have a right to bring up our child, as we feel fit.

My own parents are not very religious. However they brought me up to believe in God & Heaven and I feel they approached the religious "area" correctly (not ramming it down my throat/living by the bible/sending me to church every Sunday ect ect). They taught me about god/Jesus/Heaven and allowed me to form my own views and opinions, as I got older. I now feel this is the best approach for my son.

This situation, as you report, came about after he saw the Spiderman film - should a three year old be watching that film?

Please do not think we allow my son to watch anything he wants. His t.v. viewing is made up mostly of Thomas the tank engine, Spiderman, Barney :rolleyes: , Toystory, mosters inc ect. My son is 4 next month. Spiderman is PG (parental guidance). I think he is old enough to watch Spiderman. Fair enough someone gets shot in the film, which prompted his questions. If Spiderman didn't do it perhaps the constant train crashes/crane falling over on top of the other tank engines due to ship crashing into the dock in Thomas the tank engine might have done it.

Having exposed the child to these questions and upset, you could at least be even-handed when dealing with the aftermath - but the problem there is that when causing the situation (by bringing him to the film) it was a case of "Ah sure he loves Spiderman what can you do lol" - simple parenting reaction of "oh let him have it he loves it really." We like it to happen because giving him what he wants makes him happy which makes us happy. If we as parents showed backbone we'd analyse these things more. Now that there is a consequence to this then you shouldn't shirk from it either.

I take issue with your holy than thou approach. You do not know me my family or my son. We are not the kind of parents who let our son run wild/do what he wants/not give a shít what he does or watches on TV. I feel we are good parents.

I'm going to stop there as I don't want to start a flame war. As I said you might not agree with our parenting techniques but to be honest you know nothing about us.