BBC goes FTA: 10th July

Icehouse

Frequencies for BBC channels via Digital satellite for non-sky equipment


Tuning frequencies for national BBC Television Services

Astra 2D Satellite
Transponder 45
Frequency:
10.77325 GHz
Horizontal Polarisation
Symbol Rate:
22.0 Mbaud
FEC5/6

Channels Available
BBC ONE London
BBC TWO England
BBC THREE
BBC NEWS 24
BBC ONE NI
BBC FOUR
CBBC
CBeebies Astra 2D
Transponder 47
Frequency:
10.80275 GHz
Horizontal Polarisation
Symbol Rate:
22.0 Mbaud
FEC5/6

Channels Available

BBC ONE Scotland
BBC TWO Scotland
BBC ONE Wales
BBC 2W
BBC TWO NI Astra 2B
Transponder 22
Frequency:
12.129 GHz
Vertical Polarisation Symbol Rate:
27.5 Mbaud
FEC2/3

Channel Available
BBC Parliament

Tuning frequencies for Regional BBC Television Services - Not Available until 29th July

Tuning frequencies for national BBC Radio Services


Astra 2D Satellite
Transponder 47
Frequency 10.80275 GHz
Horizontal Polarisation
Symbol Rate 22 Mbaud
FEC 5/6

Stations Available
Radio 1
Radio 1 Extra
Radio 2
Radio 3
Radio 4 FM
Radio 4 LW
Radio 5 Live
Radio 5 Sports
Extra 6 Music
BBC 7
Radio Scotland
Radio Wales
Radio Ulster
Asian Network
World Service
World Service Extra
Radio nan Gaidheal Astra 2D
Transponder 45
Frequency 10.77325 GHz Horizontal Polarisation Symbol Rate 22 Mbaud FEC 5/6

Stations Available
Radio Cymru

Please remember from today, 10th July, you will no longer need a card to access BBC services



http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/dsat_add_frequencies_ns.shtml

Mossy Monk

i am sure that most here will remember that letter we got with the Sky rag before BBC1 and BBC2 arrived on the Family Package in the ROI. it said an increase in subscription was needed to cover the costs. seeing as they are only paying for EPG placement now i think we should lob a few emails off in Tony Balls direction to get BBC3, BBC4 etc. on the EPG

johnnyq

If that did happen that would strengthen the minister's case as in today's IRISH TIMES the bbc said they had no plans to expand in Ireland. Anyway they wouldn't make a profit from the BBC being on IRISH EPG

Icehouse

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,995806,00.html

Sky is preparing to withdraw the three main commercial TV channels from up to a million homes in a dispute that threatens the government's digital broadcasting plans.

ITV1, Channel 4 and Five will "go dark" because the BBC has decided to stop paying for the viewing cards that decode the satellite signals.

Chris Bryant, Labour MP for the Rhondda, called on the government to step in and resolve the issue. He said the affected viewers would have to switch back to their analogue aerials to receive the main channels - against the government's policy of converting the whole country to digital TV by 2010.

Until now, the BBC has paid for the viewing cards that decoded the satellite signals for all the "free to view" channels - the BBC's services, the three terrestrial commercial networks and stations such as Sky News, CNN and Turner Classic Movies.

But yesterday the BBC started broadcasting its services unencrypted, after moving to a new satellite. ITV, Channel 4 and Five are unwilling to take up the cost.

According to independent television commission estimates, 660,000 households have a set-top box connected to a satellite dish but do not subscribe to Sky. Some analysts put the figure nearer a million.

Sky was in the process of upgrading the cards before the BBC announced its decision to broadcast "in the clear" - customers with new cards will not be affected.

Analysts say ITV has the most to lose: the government offers it a financial incentive for every viewer it converts to digital.

sceptre

Originally posted by Icehouse quoting Media Guardian
Until now, the BBC has paid for the viewing cards that decoded the satellite signals for all the "free to view" channels - the BBC's services, the three terrestrial commercial networks and stations such as Sky News, CNN and Turner Classic Movies.

Hardly deliberately inaccurate but it does make the BBC look like they'd been treating Time Warner and Rupert Murdoch like a charity.

Originally posted by Mossy Monk
i am sure that most here will remember that letter we got with the Sky rag before BBC1 and BBC2 arrived on the Family Package in the ROI. it said an increase in subscription was needed to cover the costs. seeing as they are only paying for EPG placement now i think we should lob a few emails off in Tony Balls direction to get BBC3, BBC4 etc. on the EPG

I notice if you have a cancelled Irish subscription with the card in, BBC one and two NI are in the clear on 214 and 215 with the full benefit of the Irish EPG information, ie being able to scroll through the programme guide as normal whilst watching the channel ( which of course you cannot do when viewing them through other channels ) and the use of the programme planner.
This EPG service is available without paying a penny to sky or paying the UK license fee.

Meanwhile RTE etc up at the top of the EPG have the blue screen and the message to phone sky, even though your Irish TV licence is paid.
How Ironic:rolleyes:
mm

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by johnnyq
If that did happen that would strengthen the minister's case as in today's IRISH TIMES the bbc said they had no plans to expand in Ireland. Anyway they wouldn't make a profit from the BBC being on IRISH EPG

good point. they must use that money to provide a better service. how about giving half to ITV and the other half to Channel 4

Tom Dunne

Originally posted by Mossy Monk
how about giving half to ITV and the other half to Channel 4

ROFL

DMC

Sports rights issues and FTA

I see that the Ulster SFC GAA Final is not on BBC 2 NI on satellite, but it is on analogue. While the game is on terrestrial, and I presume cable, BBC 2 NI on satellite are showing what the network is, that is Moto GP and the golf.

Mossy Monk

i noticed that too, (i had to check on Aertel what BBC were showing up north due to getting terrestrial BBC2 from Wales) but it was on Network 2 anyway. i hope the FA Cup is unaffected next season

sceptre

GAA transmission will presumably be an ongoing issue (or perhaps not an issue at all if they just don't broadcast it) with the beeb going free for all

dmeehan

could this be the same as when rte first went on sky?
remember then the gaa wouldnt allow rte to broadcast the games on sky sat

Richard

Originally posted by DMC
Sports rights issues and FTA

I see that the Ulster SFC GAA Final is not on BBC 2 NI on satellite, but it is on analogue. While the game is on terrestrial, and I presume cable, BBC 2 NI on satellite are showing what the network is, that is Moto GP and the golf.

When this happened before, DTT did not show the GAA either as they couldn't do it seperately. I wonder what happened this time?

SRB

DTT carried the same feed as analogue.

arkles

I was chatting to a person yesterday and he says " i read in the paper that 8 bbc channels are coming soon, they have them in Dublin already, so we will have them down here soon" , true story

jabarrett35

Listening to WLR here in Tramore yesterday morning they mentioned the new BBC service as an option to NTL. So presume more people out there know about the BBC going FTA.

sceptre

Originally posted by arkles
I was chatting to a person yesterday and he says " i read in the paper that 8 bbc channels are coming soon, they have them in Dublin already, so we will have them down here soon" , true story

Hehe, right up there with that story someone reported here a while back about the Sky installer who swore blind reception would suffer in the future because of all the Sky dishes going up and taking the available signal. There's always at least one.

arkles

A little off topic (but with bbc the cause maybe not )

I was in a house yesterday, and the ppl there receive the UK channels over a licensed deflector system, they are now getting errors on CH4 saying this channel will cease shortly ( or something to that effect ) please phone xxxxxx number.

so they are obviously getting the UK terrestrial channels off a sky digibox with a s1 uk sub or solus card, and rebroadcasting same naughty, naughty.

also if the ppl phone the sky telephone number shown on screen can the deflector company get in trouble ?

just thought id share that bit of info with u all

JDxtra

Yes, they will get into trouble. You are not allowed to re-broadcast UK terrestial channels using a feed from satellite. You have to take the feed from an terrestial signal.

Hence NTL in Dublin give us such a terrible feed of Channel 4!

irishgeo

I know of another area that does this. Everytime there was a sky software upgrade you would see channel 998 instead of C4 for a number of hours or days.

I was thinking it was bit of a grey area.

I wonder are we talking about the same area.

jez

If these are official government licensed deflector systems surely this blatant rule breaking by the company(s)concerned should be national news without delay!! Who's going to blow the whistle?

watty

None of these, nor chorus for MMDS should have go t licences.

Having got them it doesn't much matter how they get the feed.

JDxtra

I was under the impression that the only reason they could broadcast BBC, ITV & Channel 4 was due to the European legislation governing "overspill" of terrerstial TV from neighbouring countries.

If they can take the feed from satellite - how come we have to put up with terrible picture break up of Channel 4 on NTL in Dublin? Surely NTL would prefer to re-broadcast C4 from satellite instead of using the signal from Northern Ireland?

Lennoxschips

Casema (my Dutch cable company) takes their BBC 1&2 signals from satellite. As they do for the RAI Uno signal, and the German TV (ZDF, ARTE, WDR) signals.

So Casema obviously adding their own interpretation to "overspill".

watty

Originally posted by jdempsey
I was under the impression that the only reason they could broadcast BBC, ITV & Channel 4 was due to the European legislation governing "overspill" of terrerstial TV from neighbouring countries.

If they can take the feed from satellite - how come we have to put up with terrible picture break up of Channel 4 on NTL in Dublin? Surely NTL would prefer to re-broadcast C4 from satellite instead of using the signal from Northern Ireland?

I wonder where Chorus get Sky News from?

I was in an aparment in Limerick City. Sky News was unwatchable with herring bones, poor contrast etc. The TV set itself is perfect.

NTL and Chorus *PAY* for the UK terrestrials. And charge the viewer much more. The quality is scandalous. They deserve to go bust.

JDxtra

NTL and Chorus *PAY* for the UK terrestrials. And charge the viewer much more. The quality is scandalous. They deserve to go bust.

Here, here! Well said.

byte

Heh, this reminds me of a few days ago where I was working at a house and the cable company came along to take down their MMDS antenna while I was installing Sky Digital! Sadly, they took the chimney lashings too so I had to fit another lashing and put up aerials for the 4 Irish terrestrial channels.

Sin e an Fear

If they can take the feed from satellite - how come we have to put up with terrible picture break up of Channel 4 on NTL in Dublin? Surely NTL would prefer to re-broadcast C4 from satellite instead of using the signal from Northern Ireland?

Reminds me of what UTV told me three months ago:

Thank you for your letter about the availability of UTV on Sky Digital in the Republic of Ireland.

Almost on a daily basis we are wrestling with the challenges which this project presents. There is no agreed interpretation of the European Directive- some assert that it does permit re-transmission on satellite (as on cable) and others differ.

The rights situation is also complex because of format rights and the nature of the ITV Network Programme Supply Agreement, which is relatively constraining. The contracts with independent producers are also complex. Your suggestionabout the cable operators taking their feed from Sky who would have cleared the rights is not something we can do, given the nature of ITV's contract with the cable operators. Whereas a monolithic orgnaisation like the BBC can move to Astra 2D, a federation like ITV cannot do this easily, and I am not certain that they will want to do so. I think he means FTA on Astra 2D

Your suggestions are very interesting; please be assured that we are working very hard to place UTV on Sky. There is considewrable customer demand, and UTV and Sky are unanimous in their determination to make it happen.

Yours sincerely

Alan Bremner

Director of Television

icdg

Actually there is no problem with delfector or cable companies taking satellite as their source for UK terrestrial channels, so long as this has been cleared with the channel concerned and the platform owner. In any case, it would be the broadcaster / platform owner which would be taking legal action, not COMREG or any other government authority.

Mossy Monk

i am confused by that. that isn't terrestrial overspill so how can they do it when we're not allowed (officially) to view ITV and Channel 4 via satellite

watty

If you pay your Irish TV licence

1) You can legally watch any Terrestrial or Satellite Clear Channel.

2) Yon can legally watch any Terrestrial or Satellite Encrypted channel, provided you use the real card/ pay proper subscription/ get only what your card or subscription entitles you to.

Both by Irish and EU law it is not illegal to have and use a FTV card unless it is a fake (pirate) card. It is not illegal to use a Canal+ or TPS or whatever "real" card either.

The organisations that issue a card may not want to give you one.

There is no contract on a FTV card as it is a gift. YOu ring and ask and they give it to you. Even if you did pay, the terms on the cardboard backing are invalid as you were not shown them before the goods supplied (e.g. sign for UK subscription). Even the UK sub contract and UK sub viewing card contract has no legal standing outside of UK, other than to continue receiving the pay tv , you must continue to pay.


We don't live in North Korea or Iran. If you pays your TV licence and keeps away from "pirate" cards you can watch whatever you want from wherever.

icdg

Indeed,

It is up to the broadcaster to limit their broadcasts to territories where they have the rights. It is them that will get into trouble for broadcasting into territories where they have no rights, not you the end viewer.

As for NTL - they have always taken the signal off air from Northern Ireland, for their analogue service. This does have advantages, such as full teletext reception. I for one have never had any problems with BBC/ITV pictures on the NTL service (Channel 4, however is another question entirely, but seems to be okay nowadays).

The signal for NTL Go Digital is a digitally originated one, as one can confirm by simply watching the channels (they are in 16:9 and BBC TWO NI has its extra digital programming). I believe the source for this is DTT, but can't confirm that.

carrolls

FTV card positioning from Tuesday 29th July (radio times)

101 BBC One local
102 BBC Two local
941 BBC One Scotland
942 BBC One Wales
943 BBC One Northern Ireland
944 BBC One London
945 BBC One North East & Cumbria
946 BBC One Yorkshire
947 BBC One East Yorkshire & Lincolnshire
948 BBC One North West
949 BBC One West Midlands
950 BBC One East Midlands
951 BBC One East (East edition)
952 BBC One East (West edition)
953 BBC One South East
954 BBC One South
955 BBC One South (Oxford)
956 BBC One West
957 BBC One South West
958 BBC One Channel Islands (Launches Autumn 2003)
959 BBC Two England
960 BBC Two Scotland
961 BBC 2W (BBC Two Wales)
962 BBC Two Northern Ireland

jez

Noticed that if you re add the UK regions you now get their full titles on screen, ie. BBC North West , BBC South etc....

jister

Originally posted by carrolls
FTV card positioning from Tuesday 29th July (radio times)

101 BBC One local
102 BBC Two local
941 BBC One Scotland
942 BBC One Wales
943 BBC One Northern Ireland
944 BBC One London
945 BBC One North East & Cumbria
946 BBC One Yorkshire
947 BBC One East Yorkshire & Lincolnshire
948 BBC One North West
949 BBC One West Midlands
950 BBC One East Midlands
951 BBC One East (East edition)
952 BBC One East (West edition)
953 BBC One South East
954 BBC One South
955 BBC One South (Oxford)
956 BBC One West
957 BBC One South West
958 BBC One Channel Islands (Launches Autumn 2003)
959 BBC Two England
960 BBC Two Scotland
961 BBC 2W (BBC Two Wales)
962 BBC Two Northern Ireland

So where will BBC3, BBC4, CBeebies etc. be parked? Or will I need to use other channels?

Genghis

Thats a FTA list, I think. If you have a UK sub or no sub, then the EPG information applies.

I would guess that BBC3 and BBC4 will be in their UK EPG positions (115 and 116), like wise for News 24 and parlianment (507/508) and for the kiddies (not sure on these two).

If you have an Irish sub all the channels in the list above, along with 3, 4, news24, parliament, Cbbc and Cbeebies would all need to be tuned in via Other Channels.

On another related topic, I wonder will the Irish EPG remain the same after 29/7 or will they introduce a 'regional menu' - which will of course be redundant / only have one choice in it anyway.

watty

In maybe less than 24 hs there will be BBC on the FTA EPG.

It WONT affect the ROI/Irish EPG at all.

To get it, esp. if you have cancelled a sub, put in either a ordinary plastic card or upside down Sub card and disconnect mains and reconnect.

DO NOT remove card at all

Ignore Error message and after a few minutes 101 should be BBC1 London. Press Guide to see all the FTA stations

S4C may be missing. It will work via other channels (Rugby). As might one or two FTA Pop video channels.

I'll post settings for any channels missing tomorrow.

carrolls

BBC 1 regions are now available on the Sky EPG between 941 and 962. (Sorry, Not on an Irish Card)

Interesting new BBC Faq.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/dsatanswers.shtml#wrong_region

Mossy Monk

on the FTA EPG it is quite handy because directly after BBC1 and BBC2 are BBC3 and BBC4. i think so anyway

watty

The CBBC and CBeebies are in the 600s

With the upside down / FTA EPG (ideal if you have cancelled Sky) the only missing FTA Channel seems to be Chart Hits TV

Add it via "Other Channels" instead of BBC if you use the Digibox witha FTA EPG

Freq 11487
Pol V
SR 27500
FEC 2/3 (probabily, my PC is auto on that)

Ozzie

I was doing the card upside-down thing at first and it worked fine, eg BBC 1, 2, 3 and 4 in order, etc... There were no channels on 106, 109, 401,etc.

Today, however, whilst I'm still getting all these, I'm also getting a "Problem with your card" message on all the other sky channes (Sky One, Uk Gold, Sky Sports, etc..) and also, interestingly, ITV2!!!!

This could be very iritating WHEN I cancel my Sky Subscription, or will this not be the case then?

Any suggestions?


Thanks

Lennoxschips

When I insert my card upside down and reboot the box I get no BBC in the EPG. I tried a software download. (edit: false alarm, works now after the third try)

Yes Ozzie, I also noticed that the FTA epg now also lists all the pay channels you can't get (whereas before they were invisible). That's a real pain, it turns channel surfing into channel crawling. Sky being annoying as usual!!!

Mossy Monk

i had my neighbour whinge about this earlier tonight. why would Sky bother. it is them acting the bollocks* IMO

*excuse the French

DMC

And with that, a great thread comes to an end.

/me salutes and unsticks.

DMC

Actually, its not over..... more rights issues.....

Hollywood in screen battle with BBC

Satellite switch imperils viewers' choice of movies

Matt Wells and David Teather in New York
Thursday August 7, 2003
The Guardian

The BBC's plans to screen the first Harry Potter film and other blockbuster movies are under a cloud because of a potentially damaging row with the big Hollywood studios.

Warner Bros, Universal and 20th Century Fox have called in their lawyers to sort out a dispute that has arisen from the BBC's decision to broadcast its channels unencrypted: the studios are concerned that their films can now be picked up in countries around Europe in which the corporation does not own the relevant rights.

Relations between the BBC and some of the studios are said to have broken down because of the row, which could also hit the negotiations over the third series of 24.

Earlier this year, the BBC ended its conditional access deal with BSkyB, which ensured that its output could only be seen by holders of viewing cards in Britain. The BBC moved its channels to a new satellite, which it claimed had a more accurate "footprint" over Britain, meaning it no longer needed to scramble its signals to stop them from leaking to mainland Europe.

But the studios fear BBC channels can now be seen all around Europe, and some want the corporation to re-encrypt its services. At the least, contracts will have to be redrawn and the studios placated.

If the row is not resolved, the studios could - in theory - stop the BBC showing their films: the corporation wants to make Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone the centrepiece of a ratings-busting Christmas schedule.

One executive at a rival broadcaster said: "The BBC are up against the wall on this one. I really don't see any way out of it for them, other than going back to some sort of conditional-access deal. It's not just films; it's right across the board: sport, drama, imports, the lot."

A Warner source said: "The BBC came to us and told us they were going to do this. We are waiting to assess the impact."

The source said that Warner, which makes the Harry Potter movies, had not yet threatened to pull the films.

In March the BBC director general, Greg Dyke, trumpeted his split from BSkyB's encryption service as a triumph that would save the BBC £85m over five years; since then, the move has been dogged with problems. ITV, Channel 4 and Five are now unavailable to satellite viewers who do not have a subscription to BSkyB; the corporation has also been forced to sign a new agreement with BSkyB to carry all of its regional services, meaning the move may not save as much as originally envisaged.

Now, some Hollywood studios are said to have suspended relations with the BBC, and are talking only through lawyers. The Motion Picture Association, Hollywood's lobbying arm, has also taken up the studios' case. A BBC spokeswoman said: "Some negotiations are on hold. But it would be untrue to say that nothing is moving forward. It's more difficult with some than others. They are concerned about overspill from the new satellite; we are confident that the overspill is a lot less than it was before."

carrolls

The Guardian certainly has always had a bee in its bonnet about the recent BBC move to FTA. There was always going to be new negotiating because of theBBC move, but the Guardian turns every whisper into a large scale corporate crisis.
Dyke will end up showing all the movies in question and will probably negotiate a better deal for the rights than he has now with the studios.
Bidding for terrestrial rights is big money, and the Hollywood studios won't be willing to remove the main player from the equation as it will lose them millions.

jlad1

See following article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3132841.stm

DMC

Already mentioned in the FTA thread.

Merged.