BBC goes FTA: 10th July

watty · 09-05-2003 5:16pm

It may be true but curiously it is only on DS with no source.
A search of BBC Site, ITC Site and Google turns up Zilch.
On DS even there is some sceptizm.
(Arg I wish I could spell).

I'm more convinced by Stuff ITC or BBC is saying that is on ITC or BBC site!

I mean DS are just bigger than ICDG, not more official.

johnnyq · 09-05-2003 5:27pm

I know I posted elsewhere asking UK WOLF (who works for bbc) are these rumours true ?

watty · 09-05-2003 8:18pm

On here read Rodney's comment:
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/t/60282/ds.html
A chappie I have communicated with a lot (Rodney) by Email and on the MediaUK (closed) works in BBC. He has heard nothing about a delay.

johnnyq · 09-05-2003 10:23pm

I won't believe there is a delay until I see one. Personally I really hope there isn't one!

Lennoxschips · 09-05-2003 10:48pm

Perhaps they'll have a temporary double situation from May 31st - July 14.

i.e.: The BBCs will be running encrypted on 2A, and these will be what you get on the EPG in the UK, but the channels will also be available on 2D FTA at the same time (via the other channels).

The logic behind my thinking is that I take it they've already signed the contracts with Astra for 2D, and if the contract with Sky is being extended, they'll have two contracts overlapping.

Or perhaps I'm just being too hopeful!

DMC · 09-05-2003 10:58pm

Kinda too hopeful, Lennox. No, over the next week or two, the BBC will leave 2A, the signal is encrypted on both.

The BBC didnt have to move from 2A if they wanted to go FTA. Its just that 2D gives a tighter footprint for those all important rights issues.....

And anyway, the satellites are both owned by SES-Astra. It doesnt matter where the BBC are to them, just as long as they are using their satellites

redabbey · 10-05-2003 5:51pm

No FTA until 14th July http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/mailer/display.php?id=11063

The BBC has said it will not switch to broadcasting from Astra 2D "in the clear" until 14th July as this will give them two weeks after the ITC ruling on the subject which is due around the end of June according to Broadcast Magazine.

Originally the BBC had planned to move at the end of May but then got into a tangle with Sky over its position in the EPG. The BBC wants to retain 101 and 102 with a software change to the STBs to allow the correct location to be entered into the box by the consumer to ensure they get the correct region in those slots. Sky have countered that it is a non trivial thing to change the STB code and in any case the slots are used by RTE in Eire and so can't just be simply given to the BBC and have suggested moving the BBC down the EPG.

An independent research firm suggested that a move would cause substantial problems and confusion for DSAT consumers and was likely to jam Sky's and the BBC's phone lines with irate viewers not being able to find their programmes

watty · 10-05-2003 6:12pm

1) The DS info /link aleady discussed at length
2) Only confirmation is an Archive article in Broadcast thet no-one can read (subscription site)
3) No confirmation on Story from BBC/ITC
4)RTE / ROI epg settings are a red herring
5) There is NO technical issue at all. It is Sky "politics" they don't want more user control of the Digibox at all. The BBC requested change is about 5 minutes programming and requires only 1 byte (one location) of storage for 256 "regions".

jez · 12-05-2003 11:21am

Lads,

Sorry to be copying and pasting but do we take "What Satellite"seriously? Seems to confirm the 14th July date.

"BBC delays relaunch of free-to-air TV channels
The BBC has announced that it is delaying the free-to-air relaunch of its digital TV services on Astra 2D until July 14 while the Independent Television Commission makes a decision about whether to step in to the row between Sky and the BBC regarding positions in the Electronic Programme Guide. Sky has threatened to move the main BBC channels to a lower position in its EPG if the BBC does not use its conditional access encryption system. The BBC channels had been expected to begin transmitting free-to-air from May 31. Please note that the new launch date of July 14 over-rides the news items in the May and June editions of What Satellite and Digital TV magazine. Meanwhile, the BBC has been performing test transmissions on Astra 2D at 10.773GHz/H (22000, 5/6) and 10.804GHz/H (22000, 5/6). [May 10]"

Sorry about this folks.

ShaneOC · 12-05-2003 11:25am

At least it might give people a chance to get their hands on an FTV card.

timpat · 12-05-2003 11:57am

The Skydigital mediabullet site have this latest update which suggests they have heard something from the horse's mouth:!!

I think at this stage we can take it that its off till July at least - that's if it happens at all now!

12/05/03 BBC confirm FTA delay on Sky
The BBC's press department have confirmed to SDO that the BBC will not be broadcasting Free To Air from Astra 2D at the end of the month. In an email response they said: "The BBC had originally planned to go in the clear at the end of May but have not been able to reach an agreement with Sky on the positioning of the channels on the EPG. The Independent Television Commission (ITC) has been asked to make a judgment in the discussions between the BBC and Sky and until that time the ITC have asked the BBC not to start broadcasting in the clear. If the ITC rules in the BBC's favour then a start date, for broadcasting in the clear, will be confirmed." An actual date has not yet been announced, however reports on the Digital Spy website indicated the new FTA launch date as 12th July.
News Feed: Raj Baddhan Source: BBC News Break: 11:11

jabarrett35 · 12-05-2003 12:28pm

Very odd I've just been to the BBC press office web site and as expected there is nothing there. So way say it is if its not. This is the rumour mill at its worst. There are no press release's on the topic or anware else apart from UK media and Sky digital media bullet quoting the BBC press office. I've e mail the BBC and a I wait a reply.

The BBC have replied and confirm the delay on the outcome of the ITC decision on the EPG placement of the BBC channels. No date has been given to FTA launch.

watty · 12-05-2003 1:55pm

watty · 12-05-2003 1:58pm

The FTA and EPG are separate issues too.

If BBC went FTA tonight digibox owners with a card would notice NO difference. The EPG issue ONLY affects those with NO card, surely a very small number of Digibox users, so the FTA switch will not "jam" phonelines.

Only no-card users have a EPG issue. And only because Sky has made it so.

The majority of no-card viewers, initially would be non-Digibox users, Humax, Palcom, Technosat, PC Cards etc. They won't ever get a Sky 101 / 102 EPG anyway!

jabarrett35 · 12-05-2003 2:41pm

The e mail I received said they had been asked not to go FTA by the ITC and that they (BBC) had agreed to this while waiting the ITC decision. Of course this is only happening because of Sky's bully boy tactics and wish to control satellite broadcasting in these islands.

zak · 12-05-2003 4:04pm

As I stated last week no FTA at the end of May!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A lot of you want to know my source. VERY VERY RELIABILE. West London!!!!!!!!!!!! At this stage it is 99% certain that the BEEB will NEVER go FTA on the Sky / Astra Satellite. I am sure that most of you are intelligent enough to see why this will never happen. Think about for a while and the consequences for B Sky B. As I get the information I will post it. As I stated before the move to 2D is a move off the wider beams as requested by SES, not to go FTA.

JDxtra · 12-05-2003 4:09pm

<sarcasim>

Wow, you got this info off somebody from West London? Then it surely must be true!!

</sarcasim>

I'm not saying that there isn't a possibility of you being right (i.e. the BBC doing a u-turn), but just stop talking as if you have top secret info - when in fact you are obviously just full of bull.

(sorry admin for appearing to slag a fellow member - but this is bull!).

carrolls · 12-05-2003 5:08pm

I am sure that most of you are intelligent enough to see why this will never happen. Think about for a while and the consequences for B Sky B.

Patronizing Fe**er. Or troll, or both.

DMC · 12-05-2003 5:59pm

Right, we can do without the cat calling...

See what happens, though, Zak? Even if you do turn out to be right, no one will believe you. Unless you say who the sources are, the issue remains. If you cant, you'll have to run the risk of not being believed..

watty · 12-05-2003 6:20pm

Never is a *long* time.
Sky *might* close next week, but there is likely to be a BBC for a long time.

In short term, yes, it is possible for BskyB to put a spike in it.

Zak might have a real BsksyB source, but that source may echo Corporate wishfull thinking like a Murdoch version of the Iraqi Info Minister

In long term BBC and ITV *WILL* be FTA on DSAT. I would NOT hold my breath for RTE though...

Just read every BBC Speech and press release about Digital TV since 1998.. This is not Just a Greg Dyke / Whe are moving to 2D anyway thing.

With loss of Astra AND Eutelsat launchs of very big "birds" for Europe there is a long term channel shortage that might prompt 2D move anyway. But those birds were planned during a boom period that has gone so there is no immediate problem of capacity, dunno what replacement schedule is though.

It is unfair to accuse Zak of Trolling etc, but Zak should not post confidential info, esp. if he can't name the source.

I did more search of Internet, ITC and BBC while waiting for paint to dry (Installing lots of SW), and there is no official press release about this. Lots of folk quoting the Digital Spy story, that's all. But could be true..

Capt'n Midnight · 12-05-2003 6:21pm

http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/bbcitv.htm

Highlights:

10. Will the BBC reduce the Astra 2D transmitting power?
Apparently they are not planning to do this but I'm sure they will consider it when they realise their programmes can be watched as far south as southern Spain!

12. If I get a FTA receiver, will I still get the EPG and interactive services? - No.
Nearly all will work with the search and scan EPG, but probably not with the main EPG. Interactive services will not be available as these rely on the Sky software. Of course the GOOD news is that you'll no longer see the "red spot" if you use a non-Sky Digital receiver!

TEST channel - It's on the same transponder...

You'll see that the travel programme "Going Places" is FTA so you should be able to enter its parameters as:-

Frequency 10921
Polarisation H
Symbol Rate 22000
FEC 5/6
If you can receive this then there's a very good chance that you will be able to receive BBC in June.

ALSO - Third hand rumours from another board - anyone heard about this ?
"five have been rumoured to be the target of a takeover by Sky for a while - how this affects their decision to go FTA is unclear at this time. five are (or were, not sure now) owned by the german RTL group. RTL will probably be familiar to the people who had analogue satellite in the days before Sky Digital. RTL currently broadcast a large(ish) package of FTA german channels from Astra 19.2"

Also any sign of UTV broadcasting down here - Good Friday and all that - as that would mean one less channel to wait for on FTA..

zak · 12-05-2003 6:27pm

As I said earlier and last week before the new FTA date, before any media or spy sites had the story that the FTA was being postponed for a few weeks. I have nothing to gain by sharing info with fellow board members, but if you don’t want to hear the news before any of the UK media sources that’s fine by me. I am sure that the majority of the board members and board visitors are interested and it is the likes of the small few with pea brains just f**k it up for the others. For obvious reasons I cannot tell you my source. But believe me it is 100% true. Slag off as much as you like, but me for one will not post again to this board except with an e-mail address for genuine members that want any information I receive.

swoofer · 12-05-2003 6:42pm

Zak

Think of all the people who are accepting your posts, don't let a few remarks put u off. Keep up the good work. We need open forums not closed.

gb--

Tony · 12-05-2003 6:52pm

What are the obvious reasons and why have you waited so long to answer legitimate questions?. Anyone can quote sources from west london, its easy. If you had at least given some indication as to why you could not name the source then you may have been listened to more seriously. Calling others "Pea Brains" certainly does nothing to enhance your reputation here, not does the use of profanity. What makes you think that the majority of members are interested in unsubstantiated rumour, this is arrogant presumption on your part. Your information may well be correct but you should remember that this is a discussion group not a sounding board for your ego.

Tony

Originally posted by zak
As I said earlier and last week before the new FTA date, before any media or spy sites had the story that the FTA was being postponed for a few weeks. I have nothing to gain by sharing info with fellow board members, but if you don’t want to hear the news before any of the UK media sources that’s fine by me. I am sure that the majority of the board members and board visitors are interested and it is the likes of the small few with pea brains just f**k it up for the others. For obvious reasons I cannot tell you my source. But believe me it is 100% true. Slag off as much as you like, but me for one will not post again to this board except with an e-mail address for genuine members that want any information I receive.

Tony · 12-05-2003 6:54pm

We need a forum where reasoned debate is the norm, not name calling and certainly not populated by memebrs who refuse to answer reasonable questions.

Tony

Originally posted by GBCULLEN
Zak

Think of all the people who are accepting your posts, don't let a few remarks put u off. Keep up the good work. We need open forums not closed.

gb--

Tony · 12-05-2003 6:57pm

Capt'n Midnight · 12-05-2003 7:02pm

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/de.sullivan/bbcon2d.htm

Has a nice bit
"Talks between the BBC and BSkyB have stalled after Sky claimed that without encryption the BBC's use of channels 101 and 102 would conflict with RTÉ's in Ireland. The BBC on the other hand says that's a load of old cobblers (or words to that effect) and that an encrypted signal with a viewing card will always take precedence over a clear signal. Given that S4C is already free-to-air, occupies slot 104 in Wales and doesn't conflict with Channel 4's encrypted use of the same slot in England and Scotland, it's difficult to see how Sky's argument can possibly stand up."

This bit is kinda nice if SKY allow this..
"The BBC wants to pay Sky (at a commercial rate including a reasonable profit margin) for a one-off change to part of Sky's CA technology. The idea is that viewers will then choose by means of a menu which regional variation they want to watch in the current 101 & 102 slots. This will enable any viewer in, for example, the North West to watch the NW regional version of BBC1 (without the red button rigmarole). Alternatively a Scottish viewer living in London will be able to opt to watch BBC1 (and BBC2) Scotland if he so wishes. In addition to having their chosen region in slots 101 & 102, all the regions will be available in consecutive slots elsewhere in the EPG (possibly in the 900 range) so viewers will be able to access any of them by simply keying the appropriate 3-digit EPG code. "

"The problem is that Sky is anything but committed and will have to be dragged screaming and kicking. "

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/de.sullivan/ - installing a SKY dish
eg: Dublin uses an elavation of 12 degrees.

Tony · 12-05-2003 7:03pm

Originally posted by zak
! A lot of you want to know my source. VERY VERY RELIABILE. West London!!!!!!!!!!!!

RELIA BILE? freudian slip perhaps:D

johnnyq · 12-05-2003 8:01pm

A go on, leave the Newbie alone!!!
I personally believe that it is still 31 may because no offical statement has been released by the BBC

West Briton · 12-05-2003 8:22pm

There are three parties with much to lose here in Ireland when BBC goes FTA. BSkyB, ntl and Chorus.

BSkyB has a captive audience for digital television here. Why go through the location lottery with your cable provider when Sky can get you the kit and caboodle fairly quickly - with a few catches. Phone lines to capture your viewing habits and get you to part with your credit card details. No UTV or Channel 4 to distract your spending habits from Sky's dedicated Irish advertising. No BBC News 24 for different, ad-free perspective on international news. In fact, not quite the widest possible choice at all.

ntl and its predecessors in Dublin have had a virtually free ride for over forty years with the provision of multi-channel (ie BBC, ITV and Channel Four). Why bother rolling out digital cable when all you get is a little tickle from the regulator whenever you jack up the price of the analogue package and scrap/add channels at a whim?

The less said about Chorus the better. My experience of the Bean Baron's expensive little plaything was the very reason why I got satellite.

Business school doesn't teach you the contents of the next paragraph, but it seems to have been taken in with their mother's milk by some players in business.

Customer service is a necessary evil for businesses like our friends above. At the end of the day they must deliver a bottom line for their shareholders, and if a return is not generated by an activity, no matter how much their customers would desire it to be provided, it will not be provided. You might as well whistle for the additional BBCs to be provided on Sky in Ireland, because it will impact on Sky's advertising revenue. Chorus and to a lesser extent ntl have no interest in providing a decent cheap alternative to Sky, because at the end of the day their customers have to pay for a service. The toothless regulatory regime put in place by a government in hock to O'Reilly and to ntl as a potential investor in RTE's transmission network was never going to deliver customer nirvana.

The BBC come in and change the script overnight. Why be surprised when sock puppets for Murdoch and O'Reilly break cover on internet fora to sow confusion about the whole thing?

cityprod · 12-05-2003 9:13pm

Look, whatever happens, whether its 31st May, 14th July or 12th of Never, you can bet that this whole situation has thrown the debate open about just who controls broadcasting these days, and whether its right that a private company should be in control of the delivery of these services, in this case, by satellite.

I for one would have much prefered it if BSB hadn't merged with Sky back in 1990, but unfortunately, it seems that it was necessary otherwise both would most likely have gone out of business. Still, because of it, it means that there is unlikely to be any competition in the UK and Ireland satellite market ever.

I for one, would love to see BBC go FTA on 2D, and stick a finger up at Sky. Sky have been very disappointing really when it comes to programming, and they have been far too reliant on too few things, including The Simpsons and the Sky Digital platform, to make them money, in the same way that ITV have been far too reliant on too few programmes.

Whether it happens or not, I will not be surprised either way. In this business, just about anything is possible.

carrolls · 12-05-2003 9:38pm

quote:
Originally posted by zak
I am sure that most of you are intelligent enough to see why this will never happen.

No! we are all actually idiots Zak who are not quite as clever as you.:rolleyes:

DMC · 13-05-2003 7:51am

I've had enough, a week long ban for the next poster to insists that school-yard banter is suitable here. :mad:

irishgeo · 15-05-2003 12:50pm

we will lose out on the interactive 5 live commentary on england games and the fa cup as that was the best bit about interactive coverage. i am a huge alan green fan.

ShaneOC · 15-05-2003 2:17pm

Originally posted by irishgeo
we will lose out on the interactive 5 live commentary on england games and the fa cup as that was the best bit about interactive coverage. i am a huge alan green fan.

See my reply in the Internationals thread. Basically, no we won't loose any of the interactive stuff, in fact we'll get more of it as there wont be any of the "This service is not available in ROI" messages.

jmcbride · 15-05-2003 4:47pm

Originally posted by ShaneOC
See my reply in the Internationals thread. Basically, no we won't loose any of the interactive stuff, in fact we'll get more of it as there wont be any of the "This service is not available in ROI" messages.

Have there been many "not available" messages lately? The last few times I've checked, for Walking with Caveman and the national IQ test, not to mention football coverage, the red button has been working nicely. I wonder if the BBC have opened the interactive coverage in advance of the move to FTA.

ShaneOC · 15-05-2003 5:18pm

Originally posted by jmcbride
Have there been many "not available" messages lately? The last few times I've checked, for Walking with Caveman and the national IQ test, not to mention football coverage, the red button has been working nicely. I wonder if the BBC have opened the interactive coverage in advance of the move to FTA.

The last time that I saw one was on Fame Academy.

DMC · 15-05-2003 10:00pm

It was that way for Comic Relief in March too.... but they had put a kind, helpful message telling us of all the other ways to donate from the RoI.

West Briton · 16-05-2003 12:54am

Well, it's official, it's in the Radio Times and says it clearly.

The article claims that the card was necessary to let your set know your postcode and hence choose your "local (Scotland, England, Northern Ireland or Wales) variation of the channels. The BBC's idea was that from the end of May you wouldn't need a card to see the BBC channels on satellite TV (although you'll still need the card for ITV1, C4 and Five)."

RT confirms that the change to unencrypted BBC on DSAT is "..not likely to be May" due to the ITC arbitrating between BBC and Sky. No date given, except "watch this space".

If channel numbers do change, readers are advised to change their favourites list.

Unencryption will result in the evening regional news red button service to be replaced, "the regional services will start to get their own channel numbers until eventually you can choose virtually whichever of the 15 regional versions of BBC1 you want, from anywhere in the country"

Tony · 16-05-2003 11:18am

Originally posted by West Briton
Well, it's official, it's in the Radio Times and says it clearly.

Thanks for posting the info, nice to know the source too:D

DMC · 16-05-2003 11:28am

Many thanks for that WestBrit,

So we know for sure the delay is happening, just we dont know how long, for certain.

Lennoxschips · 16-05-2003 12:01pm

The BBC should call Sky's bluff. After all, if the BBC goes to the 900 channels, who is it going to harm more, Sky or the BBC?

Darby OGill · 16-05-2003 1:26pm

If the Beeb goes to the 900's, the only people to be harmed will be those with weak hearts who haven't ventured there before.

Imagine what getting Tantalise TV instead of Jeremy Paxman might do to some folk......

jmcbride · 16-05-2003 1:26pm

Originally posted by Lennoxschips
The BBC should call Sky's bluff. After all, if the BBC goes to the 900 channels, who is it going to harm more, Sky or the BBC?

The BBC, I suspect, because it's human nature to concentrate on the top of the order. If BBC1 switches from 101 to 963, for example, most people will get bored with paging through seven or eight EPG screens very quickly, and will probably be too lazy to remember the three digit channel numbers for a more direct access.

johnnyq · 16-05-2003 4:04pm

If it is of any interest skydigital.mediabullet.co.uk are saying in their channels coming soon banner that BBC FTV will be Mon 14th July!!

byte · 17-05-2003 1:16pm

Originally posted by johnnyq
If it is of any interest skydigital.mediabullet.co.uk are saying in their channels coming soon banner that BBC FTV will be Mon 14th July!!

That date could "be subject to change" though!

skyeye · 19-05-2003 12:21am

speaking of FTV i need a ftv card for c4/itv send me a private message or email, i'm willing to pay a reasonable price
Thanks;)

DMC · 19-05-2003 12:48pm

Originally posted by skyeye
speaking of FTV i need a ftv card for c4/itv send me a private message or email, i'm willing to pay a reasonable price
Thanks;)

A sphambhest.

OK, one request and I'll leave it here, I've removed all the other posts.

carrolls · 23-05-2003 5:06pm

According to Satellite TV magazine June edition,
The ITC have sided with the BBC in that BBC 1 and BBC 2 will be on 101 and 102 in Non encrypted mode.
Sky have said that the regional option won't be available for 2 years at the earliest.
So BBC 1 and BBC 2 will be the London versions for 2 years. The regional versions of BBC 1 and 2 will be grouped at the bottom of the Entertainment Menu option.

a bientot · 23-05-2003 5:55pm

The change above re 'free' BBC via satellite dish affects those who made a choice to take the BskyB package for the package itself....lots and lots of tv channels.......with lots and lots of ads with the odd bit of a programme thrown in here and there.
Those who are on cable in Ireland for the most part only want a few channels... so have no intention of taking more cable channels (via digital system) and this is the main reason that ntl and Chorus don't worry too much about promoting their digital services.
Comreg have a different agenda because they want the cable services to hand back as many frequencies as possible up to ten in all from 35Mhz onwards.
In Bruxelles 39 channels are provided in analogue for 123 euro per year (basic - cheapest - package) and there's no mention of hundreds of new digital channels....................

BBC goes FTA: 10th July

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