stop procedures when in traffic

rachel

I finally bought my first car and got it today so it's my first time driving with my mum or dad in the car, before it had always been with an instructor because I couldn't get insured in either of my parents cars.
We were stopped in traffic and on flat road and it wasn't one of those junctions where you need to wait 6-hours for a light change. Instead of pulling up the handbrake, I just kept my foot on the foot brake at all times except obviously when I had biting point and was moving off.
My mum is convinced that this would fail my test although I know I've done it a number of times with my instructor in the car and she's never corrected me on it, just told me that I must have at least the foot brake on in case someone rear ends me. I won't see my instructor for a week or so because she is away so could anyone tell me who's right?

seamus

It's one of those horrible grey areas.....where whether you fail or pass could depend on what mood the tester's in.

If you know the lights, or even better the light sequence, then pull up the handbrake and take it out of gear if you're going to be there for more than a minute.

Generally, if you're first in the queue, just use your footbrake, cos the tester isn't going to like it if you are slow to move from the lights. But if you're in the queue, you have more time to react after the lights have changed, so I'd almost always take it out of gear at least. If I was queueing on a hill I'd always use the handbrake, but I'd almost never use the handbrake in normal conditions. And I passed, so.....

As with loads of things on Irish roads, there's no clear right or wrong, rather just exercise good judgement

rachel

thanks
I've failed once before but it wasn't because of that and I would always use the handbrake on a slope/hill so i think I'll stick with the instructor's advice.
Damn mothers thinking they know everything...

BrianD3

My instructor taught me to use the handbrake every time I had brought the car to a complete standstill. At traffic lights, at stop signs, when I was changing direction during the turnabout etc. My instructor was with ISM which is a reputable driving school. What's your instructor like - there are useless, clueless instructors out there, what's yours like? Perhaps your mum is correct and the instructor is wrong!

I would therefore advise you to listen to your mum and use the handbrake even if you know you'll only be stationary for a few seconds. Also, using the handbrake is a good habit to get into. Sitting at traffic lights with your foot on the footbrake can result in warping of the brake discs of the car, also it can piss off the guy behind cos after a while your brake lights will start burning his eyes out

Brian

KoNiT

Your supposed to use the handbrake in case you get belted from behind & thrown across the road onto cross traffic!

Its as easy to drop the hand brake as it is to change your foot across to the acc. pedal.

Sitting at traffic lights with your foot on the footbrake can result in warping of the brake discs of the car,

Correct!

[/QUOTE] also it can piss off the guy behind cos after a while your brake lights will start burning his eyes out [/QUOTE]

Too effin right it is! & switch off your fog lights while your at it!

ando

I tend only to use my brakes at traffic lights during the day. Being the considerate driver that I am :rolleyes: ,I know how bright my rear lights are at night and I use my hand brake as much as I can when it is dark.

On the other hand, Merc drivers are completely ignorant to the ppl behind at night, especially drivers with new Merc's with really intensively bright rear clusters

rachel

Originally posted by BrianD3
. At traffic lights, at stop signs, when I was changing direction during the turnabout etc. What's your instructor like - there are useless, clueless instructors out there, what's yours like?

I would have thought that that may be a bit excessive but I am still learning so my knowledge is still a little limited.
My instructor is great, had heard numberous good reports about her and have found her method of teaching a lot better than that that of another supposedly reputable driving school I went to.
I assume though that in my test if I show use of my handbrake and occasionally, if say I was at the front of a queue and the lights were a minor set which would change quite quickly.

I know as Seamus says, its a grey area but I just don't want to fail my test again, especially on something I could change easily.

Spunog UIE

use the hand brake for your test.

then use your judgement after that

ColinM

Rachel, your mother is right. You should not sit on the brakes at traffic lights when doing your test. If your instructor did not pick you up on it, her only excuse can be that she didn't notice, although he or she should have. If you come to a full stop at lights, you should engage the handbrake. This is only a grey area in the same way as crossing your arms when turning the steering wheel is - ie: everybody does it after they pass the test even though they shouldn't, but when on test, you should not do it. It may not be enough to fail your test on its own, but a combination of bad habits like these on your test and you will fail.
The reasoning behind it is that if you are indeed hit from the rear, your foot will almost certainly come off the brake pedal and your car will be shunted alot easier into other traffic.
Also, as a couple of others have said, the glare from the rear lights creates alot of eye-strain for the person sitting in the car behind you, especially if it's dark and you have a central high mounted brake light as well. So there's the consideration for other road-users aspect too.

(Oh, yeah... off-topic rant coming up...
Rear fog lights are my personal number one motoring pet hate. I have given it alot of thought as to the reasons why people have them switched on when it's not foggy. I think if you stopped 100 "fog-light merchants" and asked them why they have their rear fog lights on when it's not foggy, the responses would probably break down like this:
55% - "So is that what the orange light on my dash means?"
40% - "I'm being safe. You might not see me at night without them on."
5% - "I secretly think it makes the car look really cool."
I reckon the same punishment is due for them all anyway - 10 years in prison, the car impounded, banned from driving for life, and a 5 thousand euro fine. Yeah ... I really hate them!)

Colin.

Young Sid

On the other hand, Merc drivers are completely ignorant to the ppl behind at night, especially drivers with new Merc's with really intensively bright rear clusters

Most Mercs don't have a handbrake as such, its a foot pedal beside the clutch & released by a lever beside the steering wheel So the normal use of a 'handbrake' is difficult. Interesting hillstarts. Then again you're talking about Merc drivers.

On the topic. As you stop, braking, clutch in as you come to a halt. Handbrake on, neutral, clutch out, off footbrake. Never neutral/clutch out before handbrake. Car must be under mechanical control at all times i.e. either braking or gears.

[

Rear fog lights are my personal number one motoring pet hate

Shoot the foglights. (Front AND rear!)

Then shoot the driver.

Blitzkrieger

I had two different intsructors while I was trying to pass the test. The first guy was a former tester and was a instructor for 25 years. His exact words were "Only use the handbrake if you're afraid the car will roll backwards". The second instructor was IAM certified and didn't correct this, and I passed my test with no problems.

It is safer to use the handbrake though, so if I think I'm going to be stopped for a while, I'll put it on. It's not always neccessary to use it at a stop sign either. The rule is that you have to come to a complete stop, not put on your handbrake. It's usually hard to see at a junction with a stop sign (why it's there) so you'll probably stop, then edge forward until you can see.

Originally posted by ColinM


55% - "So is that what the orange light on my dash means?"

I'd say a lot more than 55. A lot of people have no clue what the switches are for in their own car, let alone anyone elses.

ColinM

I had two different intsructors while I was trying to pass the test. The first guy was a former tester and was a instructor for 25 years. His exact words were "Only use the handbrake if you're afraid the car will roll backwards". The second instructor was IAM certified and didn't correct this, and I passed my test with no problems.

Fair enough so - it does seem that it is indeed a grey area if at least two certified instructors are of this opinion. I haven't looked yet to see if there is an official line on it from the Irish testing centres. I'll check out what I can find later out of interest. I did think of another reason why you should not be sitting on the footbrake after my previous post though, and that is I think I remember hearing from medical opinion in insurance company accident reports that you are more likely to sustain a whiplash or spinal injury if you are hit from behind when you are pressing the footbrake and this is because your back will most likely be arched (or at least under tension) when applying pressure to the brake pedal.

I do agree with Blitzkrieger that the handbrake rule does not apply at stop signs and other places like roundabouts though.

What Young Sid says about having the car under mechanical control at all times is spot on - this is basically the whole point of what the test is about and what you are trying to prove that you are capable of during the test. If you feel that you are not able put into gear and release the handbrake and move off as quickly and as smoothly as waiting in gear with your foot on the brake pedal to move off, then you need more practice at it, so that indeed you are capable of being fully in control of the car at all times!

Shoot the foglights. (Front AND rear!)

Then shoot the driver.

Nice one, Young Sid! And I thought my sentencing was harsh!

Victor

Oh, yeah watch out for rollback as you release the break and before you apply the accelerator.

commited

You should use your handbrake..
If you are first in the queue, you should be watching the set of lights perpendicular (if possible) to the road that yuou are on, to see when they go amber, so that you know when to release the handbrake

Pimp Ninja

For reasons already stated, Handbrake all the time.

Too many times am I dazzled at lights by inconsiderate drivers that keep their foot on the brake for the duration.

Whiplash fact is interesting.

If youre hit, foot coming off the break and being shunted into other, possibly oncoming traffic.

And the Disks becoming warped.

All very valid points against doing this. The only arguement against this is that it cant be done quickly enough.

This comes with practice, so keep at it, and best of luck with your test.

rachel

thanks all.
I'm using the handbrake a lot more now and it is actually easier so things seem to be going grand.
My test is due up around the end of April/early May so I'll let you all know how I got on
thanks again

KoNiT

good luck!!