[Article]Council sets out criteria for new-look O'Connell St

Victor

Council sets out criteria for new-look O'Connell St
From:ireland.com
Wednesday, 26th March, 2003
http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/421623?view=Eircomnet

Dublin City Council has provided the first working definition of a sex shop under Irish planning law as part of a draft Special Planning Control Scheme for the O'Connell Street area.

The draft scheme, now open for public consultation, defines a sex shop as "a retail outlet which inter alia rents or presents for viewing sexually explicit printed material or films (including videos), clothing, sex aids and toys".

Anyone seeking to open such an outlet in the O'Connell Street area will be required to obtain planning permission, thus closing a loophole in the law that allowed Ann Summers, the British chainstore, to establish an emporium in the street.

Converting a restaurant/cafe to a fast-food outlet will also be deemed a change of use requiring planning permission, although the scheme notes that no locations in the O'Connell Street area are considered suitable for fast-food outlets or takeaways.

Notwithstanding the interpretation of "shop" in the 2001 Planning Regulations as a place "for the retail sale of goods", the conversion of a shop into a newsagents, convenience store, supermarket, off-licence or pharmacy will also require permission.

"No additional newsagents and/or convenience stores or fast-food outlets/takeways will be permitted on Lower or Upper O'Connell Street", the draft scheme says. Neither will ATM lobbies, Internet cafes, phone-call centres or amusement arcades.

Where such "non-desirable uses" continue to operate - and this also applies to fast-food outlets - the council "may require the owners/occupiers to implement a programme of works to eliminate the problems associated with such a use or to cease operating.

"If owners/occupiers persist in ignoring the urgent need to repair, restore or replace their shopfronts as required, then the planning authority may intervene and require owners/occupiers to implement an approved programme of remedial works," the scheme warns.

It is also an objective of the scheme to "seek the removal of a number of existing advertisement structures that detract from the architectural character of the area". These include the Bailey's, Windsor Car Hire and Irish Nationwide signs overlooking O'Connell Bridge.

Also targeted for removal under the scheme are the back-lit plastic fascia signs of the Ambassador and Savoy cinemas, the neon lettering of Funland on Upper O'Connell Street and the Broadway Amusements and Trivision signs on Lower O'Connell Street.

Given that the entire area has been designated as an architectural conservation area, the scheme says most work on the exterior of any building, whether listed or not, will require planning permission. PVC or aluminium windows will not be acceptable, it adds.

There will be a presumption in favour of granting permission for "higher-order retail units", such as fashion and lifestyle shops, niche and specialist retailers, and a presumption against permitting uses that detract from the essential character of O'Connell Street.

The purpose of the scheme, which has been prepared under Section 84 of the 2000 Planning Act, is to "guide private investment toward the creation of a busy, thriving commercial area that is in harmony with the street's architectural, cultural, civic and historic character."

Land use policies for the main thoroughfare will also apply to D'Olier Street and Westmoreland Street. In the case of D'Olier Street, it is an objective to seek the reinstatement of the ground floor of buildings occupied by The Irish Times as individual retail units.

The deadline for submissions on the draft Special Planning Control Scheme is May 14th. It will then go to the City Council for approval and will remain in force for six years, after which it will be reviewed. It is available on the council's website, www.dublincity.ie.

Borzoi

Sounds like a step in the right direction

(Mind you I also hope than ban track suits from OConnell St too)

LFCFan

they should get rid of that Bag shop too and Dr. Quirkys. The whole street needs to be revamped as it attracts way too many scrotebags.

STaN

Are existing shops allowed stay? I.e. any new developments will be assessed?

I can't see allot of those shops that are there being forcebly closed down without a fight, possibly a united multi-million fight. W00t lets spend more tax payers money in the courts :F

Victor

Originally posted by STaN
Are existing shops allowed stay? I.e. any new developments will be assessed?

New developments will get the strictist treatment, however, the City Council will be using any means possible (dereliction orders, improvement orders, restoration orders) to improve (in particular) the newsagents, fast food restuarants and grubby small shops.

MDR

It is also an objective of the scheme to "seek the removal of a number of existing advertisement structures that detract from the architectural character of the area". These include the Bailey's, Windsor Car Hire and Irish Nationwide signs overlooking O'Connell Bridge.

Also targeted for removal under the scheme are the back-lit plastic fascia signs of the Ambassador and Savoy cinemas, the neon lettering of Funland on Upper O'Connell Street and the Broadway Amusements and Trivision signs on Lower O'Connell Street.QUOTE]

Thank fcuk for that ...

Specky

Well in my view the only way you can re-vitalise O'Connell Street is to have some reason to go there.

If the only reason to go there is to look at the architecture and the spike then you're only going to attract people who're interested in architecture and spikes....

The surrounding areas have to have something to offer...and at the moment I don't think they do.

Like with many other capital cities the local people never go to the main attractions, only the tourists do. If I was a tourist I'd be a bit dissapointed if I trecked all the way across town to look at O'Connell Street and then found I had to treck all the way back to find anything interesting to do.

Seems to me the choices are either to spend enormous amounts of money to make the O'Connell Street area attractive or give up on it and concentrate on the areas of the city that are already more attractive to tourists.

MDR

What the hell are you babbling about ?

It isn't being re-vitalising solely for the tourist trade,
its being made nice for the people who live and work in the city,
weather tourists find it appealing is secondary IMHO,
besides if you change to use of many of the shops etc on the street to something more appealing .... the tourists will come anyway ....

Specky

Babble? Moi???

I must have managed to be particularly un-communicative 'cos I think my point is actually very similar to yours.

I've been to O'Connell Street probably about 3 times in the last 5 years or so, each time taking visitors from abroad there because it's on the tourist map.

One other time I had to go to Cathedral Street to the tax place...

I would never go there otherwise, there is nothing to see, nothing to do, no pleasant experiences to be had, nothing for a Dublin resident (they even made the spikey thing big enough to see from a long way away to save you having to go there to look at it).

Your argument is (I believe) that if there was a reason to go there then people would go.

My argument is exactly the same. The area is un-attractive and contains no useful imenities so I don't go there, tourists will continue to go there anyway but I doubt they come away with the same impression as from Trafalgar Square or the Champs Elise (sorry, my french spelling isn't the best)...

In Prague, Wenceslas Square holds similar historical significance for the Czec people as O'Connell Street holds here but it too is drab, full of fast food outlets and shops. There the money has been spent on the Old Town Square and its surroundings which are already much more attractive. In Dublin why not just tidy up O'Connell Street a bit (god knows enough money has been spent already on the spike) and put the new money elsewhere where there isn't such an uphill battle.


Babble babble, bubble bubble...

Victor

Originally posted by Victor
The draft scheme, now open for public consultation, defines a sex shop as "a retail outlet which inter alia rents or presents for viewing sexually explicit printed material or films (including videos), clothing, sex aids and toys".

Just wondering does this mean no more "mens interests" section in Easons and no "18"s films in the cinemas?

LFCFan

Originally posted by Specky
Babble? Moi???

I must have managed to be particularly un-communicative 'cos I think my point is actually very similar to yours.

I've been to O'Connell Street probably about 3 times in the last 5 years or so, each time taking visitors from abroad there because it's on the tourist map.

One other time I had to go to Cathedral Street to the tax place...

I would never go there otherwise, there is nothing to see, nothing to do, no pleasant experiences to be had, nothing for a Dublin resident (they even made the spikey thing big enough to see from a long way away to save you having to go there to look at it).

Your argument is (I believe) that if there was a reason to go there then people would go.

My argument is exactly the same. The area is un-attractive and contains no useful imenities so I don't go there, tourists will continue to go there anyway but I doubt they come away with the same impression as from Trafalgar Square or the Champs Elise (sorry, my french spelling isn't the best)...

In Prague, Wenceslas Square holds similar historical significance for the Czec people as O'Connell Street holds here but it too is drab, full of fast food outlets and shops. There the money has been spent on the Old Town Square and its surroundings which are already much more attractive. In Dublin why not just tidy up O'Connell Street a bit (god knows enough money has been spent already on the spike) and put the new money elsewhere where there isn't such an uphill battle.


Babble babble, bubble bubble...

you've got the wrong idea about why an area should be renovated. O'Connell street is Ireland's premier street and at the moment it's a disgrace. It's got nothing to do with going there for something to do or trying to get the tourists in. It's about cleaning it up and making it respectable. There is a serious litter problem there and the footpaths are disgusting with chewing gum etc. There are too many horrible looking shop fronts that makes the street look tacky and undesirable. Grafton Street is more like what O'Connell Street should be like. The Burger Joints there have nice fronts that blend in. No Amusement Arcades etc. You should be able to walk down O'Connell Street and think to yourself, 'Yes, this is a nice street'. Not, 'FFS, what a fcuked up street that is'.

MDR

LFCFan, shoots and scores ....

its for the people.

Makaveli

Originally posted by Victor
Just wondering does this mean no more "18"s films in the cinemas?

Only if they're pornos.

Big Chief

most of the inner northside is a dump though, why renovate just 1 street?

would have to do the immediate surrounding parts to imo

for example, talbot street.. the streets off henry street. Jervis street, parnell street..

personally im in o'connell street alot, i go up bye it every morning on way to work, and on the way home. Its also who occupys it to, you go from getting like 60% of knackers surrounding you, cross over the bridge and that goes down to like 5/10% ?!

ive got lost a few times in the inner north side aswell, not a pretty experience :rolleyes:

just one corporation flat to another.. and thats about all that surrounds it. Apart from 2 decent streets. Talbot street would be pretty good if it was continued the way north earl street is, instead you cross over the road and its just a kip with all those old run down buildings and amusement arcades etc..

henry street is also decent. Thats about it..


wasnt actually gonna reply to this a while back, but im bored so...

Victor

Originally posted by Big Chief
most of the inner northside is a dump though, why renovate just 1 street?

It's more than one street, the scheme involves quite a few side streets on both sides of the Liffey.

Check out http://www.dublincity.ie/planning/locplan.htm

p.pete

I'm of the opinion that O'Connell Street is very important and could be quite a nice place if developed properly. It is easily our largest street and huge numbers of us use it everyday as a bus route and the main route from North to South and v.versa.

Its a pretty crappy street, hardly any good shops, lots of tacky cheap restaurants and tons of pubs backing onto it that I would be afraid to touch with a barge-poll.

Putting in a fancy shopping centre to link up with the Ilac centre (are they still planning to do that?) and also the facelift of the Ilac centre itself and a few other things in the pipeline should all make improvements and hopefully provide a reason to use the street and not just as a means to get to somewhere else.

I still see the street being a dodgy place to be when all the fancy new shops have shut for the day and the tourists have had their fill of the reverse of vertigo staring up at the Spikes swish lighting feature (should it ever be installed). If the dodgy pubs are still there to stream masses of pissed (I'm all for me getting pissed though) people onto the streets at the same time, who are inevitably going to congregate around the same tacky burger bars.

Not really sure how to finish this post, don't want earlier (I'd fight to have them later) closing times, I appreciate having Burger King there when I want it (although I don't think we need 6 or 10 similar places in the one area).

Victor

Originally posted by p.pete
It is easily our largest street and huge numbers of us use it everyday as a bus route and the main route from North to South and v.versa.

Apparently 40% of pedestrians on O'Connell are there to get a bus and never actually use the businessese on the street. Perhaps it's time for an alternative bus axis.

Originally posted by p.pete
I appreciate having Burger King there when I want it (although I don't think we need 6 or 10 similar places in the one area).

Actually, Henry St. (mostly higher shops) suffers the opposite of O'Connell St. (mostly convenience). Perhaps a swap of some establishments between the two is in order.

p.pete

Some good suggestions Victor, kinda nice to get constructive feedback .

The only time I am ever on O'Connell Street is walking through to somewhere else or to get the bus. Occasionally to use the cinema and when I'm brave to use the banklink.

An alternative access route is a nice idea but I'm not sure which streets would be buldozed to make way for it. LUAS might make some difference (is there going to be a route somewhere near Capall St?).

Possibly some better linking routes outside the city centre in the same vane as the 17 on the southside and 17a northside? This could reduce the pointless necessity to use the city centre as a bus route for practically every destination. The summer before last I had to get into O'Connell Street from Santry to get a bus to Mulhuddard. I know there is a route from Ballymun to Blanch that would have helped me but the service on the route just isn't good enough.


Interesting comparison with the number of chippers on Henry St. Its a very good idea to switch some of them, but I would like to see some of them also switched to a different style of food outlet. I mean depending on your preference in chip and burger they all basically sell the same thing.

Victor

Originally posted by p.pete
An alternative access route is a nice idea but I'm not sure which streets would be buldozed to make way for it. LUAS might make some difference (is there going to be a route somewhere near Capall St?).

A North-South Luas is still very much up in the air. I was actually looking a Capal Street the other day thinking it could be a possible route for a bus lane - it would allow better cross city times if you could control the parking and deliveries and bring a lot more people to that end of town, where everything is just that little "too far" from O'Connell Street.

Originally posted by p.pete
Possibly some better linking routes outside the city centre in the same vane as the 17 on the southside and 17a northside? This could reduce the pointless necessity to use the city centre as a bus route for practically every destination. The summer before last I had to get into O'Connell Street from Santry to get a bus to Mulhuddard. I know there is a route from Ballymun to Blanch that would have helped me but the service on the route just isn't good enough.

There is actually a plan for a stong Airport - Blanchardstown route (and a separate Airport - Tallaght route). Ultimately as Luas / Metro develop, the idea is to move buses onto local / peripheral routes feeding into Luas / Metro for radial routes.

Originally posted by p.pete
I mean depending on your preference in chip and burger they all basically sell the same thing.

Of course, what is needed is balance,w hcih is what is missing at the moment from both streets. Look at Henry Street an hour after the shops close - you'd almost expect hookers to be hanging around it's so vacant.

p.pete

Originally posted by Victor
I was actually looking a Capal Street the other day thinking it could be a possible route for a bus lane - it would allow better cross city times if you could control the parking and deliveries and bring a lot more people to that end of town, where everything is just that little "too far" from O'Connell Street.

I'm not convinced about Capal St, it is definitely in an excellent location for it though. It would be easy to link up to for most of the buses that are currently feeding onto O'Connell St from the northside.

My first concern is that Capal St is not the widest street in the world as far as I remember. To put a bus lane there could be further squeezing the accessibility to the city centre by car (that could actually be a good thing though).

My second concern is where will south bound traffic be heading after it crosses the liffey, v.versa for the linkup from southside routes - Capal St bridge heads straight over to parliment street which is quite a short street. I don't think it would cope too well with extra load (although if it was just to be buses and taxi's it might work?). Potentially though its a good route to the far side of temple bar.

Originally posted by Victor

There is actually a plan for a stong Airport - Blanchardstown route (and a separate Airport - Tallaght route). Ultimately as Luas / Metro develop, the idea is to move buses onto local / peripheral routes feeding into Luas / Metro for radial routes.

That is a step in the right direction. These kind of routes are becoming increasingly vital given the way that Dublin is sprawling ever outwards.

Originally posted by Victor

Of course, what is needed is balance,w hcih is what is missing at the moment from both streets. Look at Henry Street an hour after the shops close - you'd almost expect hookers to be hanging around it's so vacant.

Something like that could be an interesting idea. Have you ever been to Reeperbahn Strasse in Hamburg. It's basicly the cities redlight district on a street nearly the size of O'Connell street. Its a fairly tacky sleazy street but its actually one of the cities biggest family tourist attractions - whole families are found walking around there (not just crazy Germans - Americans and other tourist types too).

There is a nice balance to the place though - There was a theatre showing CATS the last time I was there, restaurants, the cumpulsory Irish pub, night clubs etc.

One of the things that stops the whole place turning into chaos is the fact that they were clever enough to put a police station right in the middle of the street (the pimps probably keep a certain amount of order too ). I'm not suggesting we turn O'Connell St into a brothel, but variety is the spice of life. Also I know there is actually police stations very close to O'Connell St, but I would welcome more of a pressence there.

MDR

Originally posted by p.pete
Also I know there is actually police stations very close to O'Connell St, but I would welcome more of a pressence there. [/B]

I completely agree ....