The Irish Obsession with English Football

sligoliner

Ed Ryan has found his way back to the Eircom League. He wonders if more will follow

It’s difficult to know when the love affair of Irishmen for English football really began. For myself, it began on a Friday night in the early 1970’s at the Swords shopping center in North Dublin. I had the misfortune and the joy of being the product of a staunch League of Ireland family and until primary school had no concept that people in England even played organized football. I had gone to the Swords shopping center, as an innocent, to buy my new school bag for the coming year. In the mid-70’s it was all the rage to own a cheaply made plastic school bag in the colors of and with the name of your favored football team – I was already a slave to fashion. However, It was a shocked 6 year old who discovered that Waterford AFC was not on display alongside both Manchester’s, Leeds and the other great teams of the 1970’s. A harassed parent, unaware of my trauma, told me to get a move on and just pick one.

After confirming with the storeowner that indeed Waterford truly was not available I finally settled on an Everton school bag. The colors were right and that thing on the crest looked suspiciously like Reginald’s Tower on the Waterford quay. For the next three decades I was an ardent Toffee and as an Irish Evertonian spent most of Primary and Secondary school suffering from the taunts of Liverpool and Manchester United fans (thank you Lord for the 84/85 and 85/86 seasons). My only real solace was that I had avoided picking up a Manchester City bag on that faithful night in Swords.

Despite my fancy for Toffees, my father still dragged me through the freezing rain and muck to see Waterford in the League of Ireland He was appalled that I had been lost to the neat flicks of Colin Harvey, the white Pele. Even being present to see Waterford adeptly demolish Sligo Rovers 6-1 couldn’t compensate for their omission from the Panini sticker book. Everton was sexy and Waterford, was just Waterford.

It’s hard to know what does and doesn’t make a person a supporter of Ireland’s domestic football league. Every weekend thousands of Irish men and women board planes bound for the United Kingdom to support English and Scottish teams. In pubs across the land crowds of grown men with limited budgets huddle around large screen TV’s downing pints of the black stuff as they watch Manchester United, Liverpool and Celtic work their magic. Proudly displaying the latest ‘home’ jersey they’ll chant and sing for Keano, Beckham, Owen and whoever, while squabbling vehemently about why United are better than Pool or vise versa. Yet, these are the same men who come the Euro qualifiers, will be equally happy to see England lose, as the Republic win. When the irony of this paradoxical devotion to and hatred of English football and to a lesser extent Scottish football is pointed out the typical reaction is a befuddled look followed by angry grumblings and comments like “…and what would you know about football… Manchester’s as Irish as Dublin … Celtic ARE Irish… etc, etc.”. All of which may come as a shock to the actual residents of Manchester and Glasgow who have not yet been made privy to the fact that the Republic has somehow annexed their respective cities.

My gradual return to Irish football was an unexpected gift from my father in the late 1970’s. In an effort to be as open minded as possible he took me to see a pre-season friendly between Cork City and Waterford, featuring the great Bobby Charlton and George Best. Instead of the expected vapid hero’s of MOD I saw two washed up old men stroll around a pitch for near ninety minutes. In fairness to Bobby he did make an effort, while Best just looked hung over. Both men looked so mortal that they became indistinguishable from the other players. Was this what drove my Panini stickers frenzy? The magic was gone.

As I grew, so did my appetite for live football. The tribalism and the craic of the terrace won out over the style and slick marketing of the English game. I was back with my Blues and the League of Ireland. I’ve always wondered why my fellow countrymen don’t support their local teams. Diehard Irish Man Utd fans will argue that they follow English league football because it’s so much better than the Irish game. My counter argument is that Spanish and Italian football is again so much better than the English game, but they don’t support Real or Inter. For me, I blame the parents. Passion and love for a team is incubated in the family unit from an early age. These blinkered followers of the English league are the latchkey fans of football. People who have never really attended League of Ireland games and fail to understand the joy that comes from the hardship of following live local football. They will never experience the joy Bohemian’s fans knew when they put Aberdeen out of Europe and dismantled Kaiserlautern in Germany. Through great suffering comes great joy.

The Irish barstool brigade is reminiscent of a Jerry Springer audience. A brotherhood of lazy, opinionated dolts addicted to the commercialism and sensationalism of jingoism. However, the tide may slowly be turning for the domestic game. The newly revitalized Eircom League has started to attract larger crowds since the move to summer football. Club performances in Europe should improve, as these fixtures will now occur in the midst of the Irish season and no longer before the start of the domestic competitions. Transfer fee’s for Irish players sold to English clubs no longer consist of a kiss and a promise, but are now for six figure sums. The move of Shamrock Rovers Noel Hunt to Dunfermline Athletic is the latest example in this new trend. More money means better grounds, better marketing and better players.

TV3’s decision to provide decent coverage to the Eircom games has also increased the league’s profile. The greatest boon to the league though has come from the collapse of the Nationwide ITV television contract. Cost trimming English clubs have shed Irish players aplenty over the past few months and the best of these are now playing in the Eircom League. Ironically, many of those who have returned home have found themselves lacking the skills needed to compete in the Premier Division. More than ever before, young Irish players are choosing to stay at home and play for Irish clubs rather than risk the factory mentality of English youth systems.

However, the great hope and the Holy Grail for all Irish fans is to see some form of merger between the Eircom and the Irish leagues. The greatest stumbling block appears to be the conservatism and self-interests of the FAI and IFA administrators. Security constraints aside, a one-island league would draw huge crowds and sponsorship. In this age of Anglo-Irish détente can what was once an impossible dream soon become a reality?

KdjaCL

All-Irish league would be the best thing to happen to football over here and strangley enough it would be the best thing ever because of Scotland

Financially clubs would have some issues with security but with the large crowds and BBC/SKY/RTE/TV3 wanting to cover it. the initial loss would be quickly regained.

Why Scotland ??? Rangers vs Celtic ,Rovers vs Linfield same **** different country.
I know its playing on religion to advertise a football match but the benefits of that match twice a season would gaurantee the All ireland leagues image (once the security issues were worked out )


Kdjac

mike65

Who is Ed Ryan?

Mike.

Bateman

The Sligo spammer has lifted this article off danger here-
Here, I was actually about to post the link before I noticed this thread.

This Sligo chap offers nothing to the board.

KdjaCL

They offer an unwanted record of team beaten the most by 4 goals by Pats

kdjac

Jake303

Originally posted by sligoliner
Diehard Irish Man Utd fans will argue that they follow English league football because it’s so much better than the Irish game. My counter argument is that Spanish and Italian football is again so much better than the English game, but they don’t support Real or Inter

Im one of the people who support a Brittish team, celtic, but I can agree with the guy on that!
If it was all about the quality of football (as many who support English premiership teams claim) then surely everybody would be following Spanish teams, and Real Madrid in particular?
Iv never been able to get a logical explanation for that one from people who claim to follow English football because of the quality as compared to Scottish or as the thread states League of Ireland football.

mike65

Jake its about accessability, if we lived next to Spain we'd all be watching Real etc if we lived in Poland we'd be worried I mean watching the Bundesleague. Small
countries small beer football can't compete with the sights and sounds of floodlit stadiums with famous names cutting up the turf.

Mike.

Xterminator

Originally posted by Jake303
Im one of the people who support a Brittish team, celtic, but I can agree with the guy on that!
If it was all about the quality of football (as many who support English premiership teams claim) then surely everybody would be following Spanish teams, and Real Madrid in particular?
Iv never been able to get a logical explanation for that one from people who claim to follow English football because of the quality as compared to Scottish or as the thread states League of Ireland football.

Well you may belive that, but I dont!

I have wathed many La Liga, and Serie A matches, and they are not more entertaining than the Premiership. And for me thatys the key.

the first thing i would point to is that you say one is better that the other, but dont say how you judge this?

I would concede the general standard of defending seems better, and the pace they are played at allows time and space on the ball, promoting the players with better technique. (but thats not a entirley good thing!)

Also the best teams in the UK are better than there italian counterparts, and on a par with the Spanish giants, or thereabouts. Although Arsenal have under achieved again this year, they are a match for any team inthe world as are United. And Newcastle are getting better and better.

Just to go back to the point of 'better football' i put a premium on entertainment. I'd rather see 2 teams have a go, than 2 teams sitting back and waiting for something to happen. It makes for better TV. If the quality of football is muck, then it takes away from the match, so there is a balance of skill and enthusiasm and required. and the premiership has that balance IMO.

I also like to follow the carreers of the Irish national squad. I cant do that watching Waterford united, Barcelona or Lazio. Players like Damien Duff, Robbie Keane, and John O'Shea who all have the potential to be world class!

Finally I dont wish England win ever time they play, unlike some 'fans'. I do think there is a hyprocasy in cheering Beckham and Owen for there clubs, then booing them for there country.

X

sligoliner

Translation: the moderator is a Premiership muppet and he cannot accpet the truth.

Waylander

First of all that was written by one of the most ardent LOI fans on these boards, not by a moderator. Also just because LOI is your preference does not make everyone who does not support it a muppet. I for one am a Manchester United. The reason I support this team is because when I was a kid they had some of the great Irish players like Moran, Stapeton, Mc Grath and Norman Whiteside from the North. Also RTE used to have a first division(old premiership) match on the telly every Saturday at three O clock, and this often used to feature United. So I follow this team because it featured some of the greatest ever Irish players, and the team was promoted by the Irsh State Broadcaster. I cannot recall any time when there was a LOI game on the television every week to try and get my interest. Also, Glen Crowe aside, very few LOI players would become known to the youngsters who decide who they will support in the future, so there is little LOI influence, unless other family members are fans.

Now I would suggest you pull your head out of your arse and stop being such an intolerant muppet yourself!!!

By the way what is the truth he cannot accept?

xlex

Originally posted by Xterminator

It makes for better TV.

Supporting is about being part of the crowd, the atmosphere and thus the game... you cannot enjoy these various qualities of sport watching it on T.V.

I challange anybody to attend 10 Eircom League games and tell me it's worse than sitting in front of the telly in a smoked filled pub... and don't pick U.C.D to watch either... I guarentee you will be an ardent fan in 4 years should you become attached and you will loudly pronounce your British side as your second team...

I have spoken...

Xterminator

I see you claim that if somebody watches 10 eircom league matches they will be an ardent supporter in four years .... hmmm

I guess could mean 'if we watch the 10 decent matches that occur ever 4 years '...??
Or could you be referring to the fact there have probably been 10 or less matches televised in four years?

Actually you are assuming too much.

1. I dont watch football in the pub.
I watch it from the comfort of my own home, I usually have a few cold beers, and the odd mate comes around for the bigger matches.

2. I have been to a no. of eircom league matches in Tolka park in the last few seasons. I would consider Shels to be my second team. However I'd watch Blackburn beat Arsenal in the premiership before i'd watch any eircom league match,

If the Eircom league wants some pointers, look at Norway.
Keep the U21 players playing here. If there were young irish stars playing weekin week out for the eircom league teams I'd be more inclined to go. (Perhaps the FAI could own their contracts and pay the decent wages, similiar to the Rugby pros?)
Also try a United ireland league. Financially we might have a viable league there.

X

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by sligoliner
Translation: the moderator is a Premiership muppet and he cannot accpet the truth.

can you point out the truth there?
im sorry, but all you have done is plagerise something some bloke who watches irish football wrote.
accept the truth about what?

the only truth i see here is that you dont offer anything to any discussion except biggoted half-assed generalisations.

and on a personal note, i think youre a cúnt too.

xlex

Firstly, you are taking what I said about 10 eL games and been a ardent fan in 4 years and using it to your desired effect. You know what I meant by what I said and you shouldn't use it to fuel a debate which is essentially real live football versus the television...

You watch football on T.V. I don't really recognise the difference in the T.V. at home and the T.V. in the pub... I like my football and I'll watch any footie on T.V. I just can't get away from the feeling of being at a live game...

2. I have been to a no. of eircom league matches in Tolka park in the last few seasons. I would consider Shels to be my second team. However I'd watch Blackburn beat Arsenal in the premiership before i'd watch any eircom league match,

Well, at least you've given it a go and that's what I'd like a few more to do...

The reason I took up your point about 'better television' is because most Premiership/SPL fans support teams from the barstool which is the lazy option... Alot of these supporters, cry laugh, and cheer at a bloody television. I wasn't being spacific when I replied to your quote but I believe most British football supporters fit into a barstool stereotype...

Regarding your pointers, Norway is a terrific example of how the eL should progress, for too long youngsters were leaving for England and the clubs were not picking up any fee's... The eircom league could never compete with the crazy money which is/has been paid to players... the same stupid wages which have led to the current disaster occurring in the Nationwide Leagues... I think that the eL is finally on level(ish) playing fields...

Alan Kinsella and Liam George have just spoken about the standards of coaching at Shelbourne and St. Pat's, a six figure sum for Noel Hunt, Clive Delaney's three month trial at West Ham, summer soccer and a third full-time club are good things which have happened, strange for a league which only coverage is bad coverage...
Hopefully Irish youngsters at third division teams will be a thing of the past... TBH we can survive on our own, without the NI league, every club probably needs you 300 more regular bums on the seats to take us to the next level....

KdjaCL

I love LOI i buy a season ticket every year even tho due to work i cant go to every game , i love away games (overnight pissup outside the pale cheaper than a night out in dublin)
But when muppets like Sligoliner start ranting about "Your English you dont support irish etc etc" it pisses me off.

If people prefer to watch English football or Spanish so frikkin what.
The LOIs problems with support and everything lie with the FAI its 100% their fault the league is in the state it is and not people who support Celtic or Man Utd.

Was any LOI fan surprised at the FAIs incompetence last year no we used to it.
But to constantly whine about English fans etc makes you look like an idiot.


Btw Sligo suck


kdjac

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by KdjaC
I love LOI i buy a season ticket every year even tho due to work i cant go to every game , i love away games (overnight pissup outside the pale cheaper than a night out in dublin)
But when muppets like Sligoliner start ranting about "Your English you dont support irish etc etc" it pisses me off.

If people prefer to watch English football or Spanish so frikkin what.
The LOIs problems with support and everything lie with the FAI its 100% their fault the league is in the state it is and not people who support Celtic or Man Utd.

Was any LOI fan surprised at the FAIs incompetence last year no we used to it.
But to constantly whine about English fans etc makes you look like an idiot.


Btw Sligo suck


kdjac

now, there is a commendable post.
sense reigns supreme
i applaude you sir....

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
can you point out the truth there?
im sorry, but all you have done is plagerise something some bloke who watches irish football wrote.
accept the truth about what?

the only truth i see here is that you dont offer anything to any discussion except biggoted half-assed generalisations.

and on a personal note, i think youre a cúnt too.

Well said.

Space Coyote

Originally posted by Waylander
Also RTE used to have a first division(old premiership) match on the telly every Saturday at three O clock, and this often used to feature United. So I follow this team because it featured some of the greatest ever Irish players, and the team was promoted by the Irsh State Broadcaster. I cannot recall any time when there was a LOI game on the television every week to try and get my interest. Also, Glen Crowe aside, very few LOI players would become known to the youngsters who decide who they will support in the future, so there is little LOI influence, unless other family members are fans.

I totally agree. The reason most Irish soccer fans of 'foreign' football (over the age of 15) support English soccer teams is because live games were televised by RTE every Saturday at 3pm. I started supporting Liverpool because of the Irish connection with the side at the time - Whelan, Houghton, Aldridge etc. I have no interest in Irish part-time soccer, mainly because I am from a town which has never had a LOI side, none of my family have any allegiance to a LOI side so why should I feel compelled to just because I'm Irish? I'm sure if I was from Dublin, Sligo, Galway ... then I would have supported a LOI side from an early age, aswell as my beloved Liverpool.

[/rant]

xlex

Originally posted by Space_Coyote
I have no interest in Irish part-time soccer, mainly because I am from a town which has never had a LOI side

good point...

xlex

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
now, there is a commendable post.
sense reigns supreme
i applaude you sir....

ah come-on, I deserve a mention...:D

KdjaCL

<sarcasm>your all english noobs the footy on a saturday on RTE was at 3:30 i mean come on FFS noobs </sarcasm>

I always remember a Utd game vs Forest when stan collymore scored a tap in or so the commentator said as RTE were showing a fukkin throw in replay when the goal went it and NEVER showed the goal. Turned out it was a cracker.

Or their special during the delayed games which started 3.30 at 3.45 they would tell you the halftime score in the match you were watching.

kdjac

Hairy Homer

Whoever Ed Ryan is I would be 100 per cent in support of his general sentiment, although his wish for an All-Ireland League is probably still 10 or 20 years before its time. Not really anything to do with the LOI or IL; more to to with the 'supporters' up north who are pretty vehement about waving their red white and blue.

I have long been mystified about the slavish adherence of Irish fans to English clubs; not the admiration of a disinterested sports fan for a team that is clearly superior to anything playing locally in this country but a real vicarious need to belong, and to demand to be seen by their neighbours as being inextricably bound up with a distant entity with which, for the most part, they have no connection. We are fairly unique in this regard. In Europe anyway, whatever about South East Asia.

The Brits find this attitude puzzling. I lived in England for years. I know people who were season ticket holders at clubs like Gillingham, Charlton, Crystal Palace, Brighton, even Stevenage Boro. They were for the most part true fans, posessed of a passion and sense of humour about their alloted station in life that is rarely seen in the arrogant sneering of supporters of Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool etc, especially those with accents remote from those areas. Why else would you support such a team, if not for the reasonable expectation of regular bragging rights among your peers?

How do British fans view such long distance love affairs?

Read fever pitch by Nick Hornby. He admits, candidly, that his support for Arsenal is an obsession bordering on the deranged. Read the passage where he, as a home counties Arsenal fan, goes to an Arsenal cup tie at Reading jsut down the road from where he grew up and muses on why he isn't supporting his local team. He puts it down to the utter lack of a sense of identity and distinctive culture that is endemic to those poor native inhabitants of south east England who desperately look around for some semblance of a culture to hang on to in order to give them an identity. Sometimes manifested in the 'Plastic Paddy' syndrome.

Or get a hold of Ecstasy by Irvine Welsh, a collection of three short stories, two of them putrid, the third excellent. In this, the final straw that finally persuades a dissillusioned wife to leave her 'not the same man she married' husband is the fact that as an upwardly mobile Dunfermline supporter he goes and gets himself a season ticket at Rangers to 'get behind a real Scottish success story who certainly know how to put together a good corporate hospitality package.'

What we're looking at here is a manifestation of globalisation v local culture. The money invested by the likes of Sky in the Premiership cannot possibly be recouped unless the big clubs have a supporter base outside their original catchment areas. They must absolutely adore those Irish fans who pump so much of their energy, enthusiasm and money into the globalised, corporate dot.com entities like Man U, Liverpool etc.

Of course, in a free world, you have every right to support any team you like, but I still think it's sad that the millionaire clubs prosper while the smaller ones starve. I'd have far more time for a LOI supporter than one who professed allegiance to Unoited or Orsenal any day.

KdjaCL

Good post, amazing how you got your point across without resorting to abuse.


//Sligoliner read above and see how to make a point without becoming an idiot or zealot oh Sligo still suck
"Eddie from the chipper van Q"
kdjac

Space Coyote

KdjaC,
the soccer games on RTE were live at 3pm. You're thinking of the games they briefly showed 5 or so years back where they could only broadcast half an hour after kick-off. I was talking about the 1980's, when games were shown every Saturday at 3 bells. When Johnny Giles was a kick-the-legs-from-under-ye footballer, Bill O'Herlihy was an up-and-coming cool cat hoping to shake up the commentating world, and Eamon Dunphy was Eamon Dunphy...

Jake303

Originally posted by Xterminator
Well you may belive that, but I dont!

I have wathed many La Liga, and Serie A matches, and they are not more entertaining than the Premiership. And for me thatys the key.

the first thing i would point to is that you say one is better that the other, but dont say how you judge this?

I would concede the general standard of defending seems better, and the pace they are played at allows time and space on the ball, promoting the players with better technique. (but thats not a entirley good thing!)

Also the best teams in the UK are better than there italian counterparts, and on a par with the Spanish giants, or thereabouts. Although Arsenal have under achieved again this year, they are a match for any team inthe world as are United. And Newcastle are getting better and better.

Just to go back to the point of 'better football' i put a premium on entertainment. I'd rather see 2 teams have a go, than 2 teams sitting back and waiting for something to happen. It makes for better TV. If the quality of football is muck, then it takes away from the match, so there is a balance of skill and enthusiasm and required. and the premiership has that balance IMO.

I also like to follow the carreers of the Irish national squad. I cant do that watching Waterford united, Barcelona or Lazio. Players like Damien Duff, Robbie Keane, and John O'Shea who all have the potential to be world class!

Finally I dont wish England win ever time they play, unlike some 'fans'. I do think there is a hyprocasy in cheering Beckham and Owen for there clubs, then booing them for there country.

X

Whats this? a sheep of the great En-ger-land premier league on the defensive!!!!!!!1

Luvin it!

Dempsey

Reason why the Eircom League is poor: FAI and small fanbases.
The main source of income for any club is the fans, directly or indirectly. Fans buy the tickets, merchandise. More people that watch a match, tv companies will want to show it, tv rights. If Irish League clubs had bigger fanbases, the league would be able to go professional and then the quality of football would improve, more people would watch it, better players could be bought, better facilities, etc. Its kinda like one of those vicious cycles.

Only in a perfect world though

Sand

Perhaps the question to ask is not why Irish support English based teams, but rather why do the best young Irish players go to England to make their careers? Why do vast majority if not all Irish players play in the english leagues?

Maybe if you can find the answer to that you can understand why Irish fans might want to watch English teams - for whatever reason its where you see the best Irish players playing.

Bateman

>Small
countries small beer football can't compete with the sights and sounds of floodlit stadiums with famous names cutting up the turf.


Mike, what the hell is that about?

Bateman

>Also RTE used to have a first division(old premiership) match on the telly every Saturday at three O clock

Not sure about that one Waylander. ALMOST sure it wasn't every week, and nearly sure it was quite rare. It was definitely pre-Sky TV/Premiership anyway, during which time United were no great shakes.

Bateman

>If the Eircom league wants some pointers, look at Norway.
Keep the U21 players playing here. If there were young irish stars playing weekin week out for the eircom league teams I'd be more inclined to go. (Perhaps the FAI could own their contracts and pay the decent wages, similiar to the Rugby pros?)
Also try a United ireland league. Financially we might have a viable league there.

Some great ideas Xterminator, but as long as yourself and the majority of the "Irish soccer public" continue to be passive and indifferent to the fortunes of the domestic scene, where is this money going to come from?

Bohs play Rovers in a cup final and the FAI makes feck-all. Pubs could be packed out on the same day with people wearing English shirts (money and power to the English FA), and watching SKY TV (again, more money and power to the English FA, not to mention a favourite pedantic point of mine of financially supporting the war effort). These are FACTS, and you can't expect a well-looked after international team to ever play in a stadium of their own (and not have the FAI handing over profits to the peanut-huggers) without a decent domestic scene. As long as people pour scorn on the eircom League, they will always have a crap international team.

Bateman

After reading some replies, I'll take the word for the 3.0 Saturday Division One games, but I can't say I remember them.

xlex

Originally posted by Sand
Perhaps the question to ask is not why Irish support English based teams, but rather why do the best young Irish players go to England to make their careers? Why do vast majority if not all Irish players play in the english leagues?

Why won't someone reply to my points... Is this a closed shop...

The problem is that alot of the 'best young players' are at sh!t first/second/third divison clubs which have been paying over the top wages to players for years... denying them education and in some cases the ability to persue a career in parnell with soccer... There was an illusion created where TV believed the Nationwide League was a good investment... it in turn provided stupid money to clubs which rather than spend it on capital projects handed it straight into players hands... It is those very commitments which are now killing clubs... How many of these best young players will come home this summer... about 80, and how many of those will end up in the eircom league... you'd be lucky if you see 20 and of those 20 only 5 will make a real impression... why??

English Youth Football and English Reserve divison football is nancy boy football and it prepares players for little or nothing... NOT EVEN THE eL...

for every Robbie Keane or Damien Duff there is 50 players who don't make it at any level past their 22nd Birthday...

Does anyone have a half successful story of a Friend of a Friend...

Waylander

After reading some replies, I'll take the word for the 3.0 Saturday Division One games, but I can't say I remember them

Matches were definitely shown every week. It is how I grew to despise all Irish commentators. You don't forget an education like that. By the way that United team was a very good team, it just could not jump the final hurdle in winning the league. They did win the cup. Robson, Mc Grath, Whiteside, Sapleton, Moran, Strachan and Jesper Olsen and you tell me they were a poor team?

Xlex it is a bit of a vicous circle really, the LOI clubs cannot afford to set up youth structures to compete witht the English clubs, and as long as that is the case the majority of youngsters will keep going abroad. I do think things are gradually improving, alot of the Under 19 & Under 16 teams that did well a few years ago are now playing for LOI clubs. Also Stephen Kenny is trying to sign player like Dominic Foley from Watford and bring them home. I really think the LOI needs to get RTE/TV 3 to get interested and show weekly roundup shows, and one match a week to get interest up. I think the FAI should make this a critical point next time they are negotiating the international teams rights. Dont seel the rights unless they commit to LOI football.

KdjaCL

Liam George may be signing for Pats on pro terms ,and Kerr still gets young players for Pats that are coming back.
This trend with English clubs cutting playnig staff means Irish kids are coming back its up to the LOI clubs to provide the u21 league and keep these guys playing football.

kdjac

Dustaz

Originally posted by Bateman

Some great ideas Xterminator, but as long as yourself and the majority of the "Irish soccer public" continue to be passive and indifferent to the fortunes of the domestic scene, where is this money going to come from?

Thats a ridiculous attidude for any business to have. You cannot just expect to have a god given right for people to want your product, you need to make people want your product. This is the FAI's major problem. Obviously money is the big issue in this and they are hamstrung because of it but they really need to promote the game here more.

Dustaz

Finally I dont wish England win ever time they play, unlike some 'fans'. I do think there is a hyprocasy in cheering Beckham and Owen for there clubs, then booing them for there country.

Wheres the hyprocasy?

Would liverpool born pool fans cheer owen if he signed for Man Utd? United fans if beckham signed for arsenal? no. Fans support teams not players. When england play I enjoy seeing them beaten for reasons that we have all argued about endlessly. As an arsenal fan it doesnt bother me if seaman drops the ball or parlour falls over. They are playing for england not arsenal.

Likewise, Glen Crowe. If he plays for Ireland Ill be the first one willing him on. When he scores against Rovers ill curse his name from the rooftops.

Bateman

>Also Stephen Kenny is trying to sign player like Dominic Foley from Watford and bring them home

He hasn't been offered a contract by either Bohs or Cork yet, and might not be. After all, Bohs have Crowe and Keegan, Robbie Doyle (who is an excellent prospect), and possibly Andrei Pereployotkin, an excellent player who can play in attack or wide. Foley would be a welcome addition, but couldnt be guaranteed first team football. He's a Cork lad, so may opt for City, but Champions League football at Bohs is a major attraction.

Bateman

>Obviously money is the big issue in this and they are hamstrung because of it but they really need to promote the game here more

That won't change some attitudes though. I was trying to tie in the financial troubles with the fact that the FAI shell out for the use of Landsdowne all the time, instead of trying to develop facilities that they already have access to. The product is live football, promotion for the summer soccer league is on the way, but attitudes still remain difficult to change.


>Would liverpool born pool fans cheer owen if he signed for Man Utd? United fans if beckham signed for arsenal? no.

They would on the international stage.

If you cant see the hypocrisy in hoping Seaman ****s up for England, but cheering him on for Arsenal, then you've lost all objectivity in the argument.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Bateman
>>Would liverpool born pool fans cheer owen if he signed for Man Utd? United fans if beckham signed for arsenal? no.

They would on the international stage.

If you cant see the hypocrisy in hoping Seaman ****s up for England, but cheering him on for Arsenal, then you've lost all objectivity in the argument.

Did spurs fans suddenly cheer for Germany after Klinsmann signed? Ditto arsenal fans and Argentina?

Its not hypocracy for gods sake.

You support Club A. X plays for Club B and also Ireland. Do you always cheer X? no, he only comes into the equation when he plays for Ireland. The reverse is also true.

Its similar to when some Keane Fans accused Keane Detractors of only being ABU's. It had nothing to do with how you regarded United the club, but how you regarded Roy Keane and his actions with Ireland and United.

Players come and go, People support Teams.

Waylander

I agree with you to a certain degree Dustaz, but I always like to see Irish players have a good weekend in England. As a united fan I always check there results first, after that I check out scoreres in other games to see what Irish players have scored.

Bateman

>Did spurs fans suddenly cheer for Germany after Klinsmann signed? Ditto arsenal fans and Argentina?


Spurs fans are by and large from England. Obviously they will not support another nation against theirs. What's your point? You are twisting things. Irish people cheer Micheal Owen in a pub when he plays for Liverpool. Some have his name on their shirt. Then if Ireland play England, the Liverpool top is left at home, and the eircon tops come out, and Michael Owen is an "English bastard" according to the hoards shouting at the TV. I'm not saying you fall into this category, but to say that this pub behaviour is not hypocritical is ridiculous.

You can make the point that people follow teams and not players, but a common reason for supporting an English team over an Irish one is because they have Irish internationals. People follwo teams, but players make teams.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Bateman

You can make the point that people follow teams and not players, but a common reason for supporting an English team over an Irish one is because they have Irish internationals. People follwo teams, but players make teams.

Yes, but that ignores the way that men get obsessed with football teams.

Example, Would you ever stop supporting Bohs (err, cant remember who you support )? Most men wouldnt dream of 'switching' their alegiances. I started following Arsenal when they were mostly Irish, but now there are no irish players and im still stuck with the team.

Likewise, Shamrock Rovers are no longer on my doorstep but i wouldnt for a second consider becoming a Diehard St Pats fan cos its easier to go to those games.

At the end of the day, people here (and certainly those that grew up in the 60s/70s/80s) are conditioned to a certain degree to follow english clubs. Likewise we are conditioned with that sense of inferiority that compels us to laugh hysterically when England draw 2-2 with macedonia.

As an aside, Shouting 'English cnut' at a particular player is pretty much the same as shouting 'Darky' at them, its just bigotry.

Having said all the above, i pissed myself laughing when Ronaldinho scored against england and continue to laugh at the replays. To this day i still cringe when i see a replay of Nayims goal against Arsenal in the Cup Winners Cup. Same Keeper, different teams, different reactions.

Bateman

We'll agree to disagree, but in fairness, the point you make about how you won't stop following Arsenal for another Premiership team isn't really relevant to the argument I am trying to make.

You have some form of allegiance to Rovers, so you are not really the type of person I am slagging in my argument. I am complaining about Irish people with NO allegiance to an Irish team, only English ones. You seem to be suggesting that it would be like "changing allegiances" for them to start supporting an Irish one, and I find that a load of bollocks. Its a team from a different country ffs, the extent to which an ex-firstly Arsenal fan would support their "adopted"/"local" would not really voluntarily impact on the degree to which they consider themselves an Arsenal fan. And if it does then they have seen the light.