The Irish Obsession with Scottish Football

Dr Bolouswki

The sheep and Celtic. Do you give a flock?

Why do so many Irish support Celtic? My laymans knowledge is; founded by and Irish priest in Glasgow as a Catholic Football Club cos Rangers wouldn't let catholics play (add your own romantic twist to this tale) MMmmm - that's it?

Basically an Irish Catholic team playing in a foriegn country in a shi-ite league and they have countrywide support. To my mind this is based purely on historical sectarianism and bigotry.

I have also experienced numerous moments of threatened violence from Celtic supporters when I've cheered on another team (just for the crack I've cheered Rangers in pubs...) IS that what being a supporter is about? I'm City and I can enjoy a gam with my United mates and it's all good clean fun. Working in bars near Landsdowne I've also seen the behaviour of Celtic fans during their numerous visits here... retarded drunken baboons the lot. Remember the O'Connell street riot? The forced landing of the plane returning from one of Celtics european expeditions?

So - Celtic fans - why? Why do you support a team in a meaningless league, based on bigotry and does it upset you that the Celtic fanbase seems to consist predominantly of inbred knackers?

Big Chief

Ive supported Celtic since i was a young lad, ever since i used to sit on my dad's shoulders in "the jungle" after being lifted over the turnstiles. I have supported them through and through, before i moved to dublin i was a season ticket holder for 3/4 years, i was a ballboy for a season aswell right after parkhead was redone.

I have went to parkhead all my life to watch celtic play, yes even through when all the fans sang was "always look on the bright side of life" and "sack the board"..

Im guessing you have never been to parkhead in your life?

were all "inbred knackers"?

every teams supporters always has muppets, maybe if you had been to parkhead and see that the majority of supporters are grand you could share the knowledge that you try to possess, but until that day, kindly shut your mouth.

BKtje

I agree with KIllah_B on the fact that most of Ireland supporing Celtic just cos they 'Irish' baffles me.

The league of Ireland is surprisingly Irish and not nearly as many people support it. (i dont watch it either but i aint a real celtic fan )

Now to say all Celtic fans are 'knackers' etc is a bit err, dodgy. Most fans that come to another country get kinda drunk and usually start something. No denying some celtic fans are bloody eejits etc but dont throw em all into one basket or even most of em.

KdjaCL

Not all Celtic fans are knackers just the irish ones.
Having played them in the CL a few years aog i seen how bad they and the depths those scum will go to.
When we were away in Celtic park we were treated like kings by the Scottish fans unreal as an away fan in an away ground i never seen anything like it.
Tho when it finished 0-0 some Celtic fans were a bit pissed, not beating the part timers from ireland etc: but still the scottish fans were excellent.
On the way home as we sang merrily i lost count of the amount of wánkers who started fights with the Pats fans (ironically most Pats fans had special t shirts with St Pats and Celtic crests on them).

Then when we played them in Tolka they were far wrose and the irish fans were scum plain and simple how they could Boo Irish players playing for Pats yet Celtic hadnt got one Irishman on the pitch is beyond me.
The whole day i was in the Harp with scottish lads and had a great time but soon as we got to the ground and seen the Irish Celtic fans i was sickened they were scum ,we were behind the goal and had to listen to these fekcers for 90 minutes either starting fights or booing Pats players.

Btw i have been to Celtic park but never went again after that game and would never go again.
Celtic may have excellent Scottish supporters but their Irish fans are scum.

kdjac

Bateman

>just for the crack I've cheered Rangers in pubs...


Think I'd define that as ASKING for trouble. Most of the rest makes sense. In fairness though, justifying following a club based on Irish roots is more sensible than basing it on, well, what do you base following City on?



>Why do you support a team in a meaningless league

Thats stupid arrogance and its very annoying. English teams couldnt even qualify for Europe for a period because of the ban, but English football was far from meaningless. I doubt that the Scot league is considered meaningless by the people who have grown up watching their local club week in week out.

>retarded drunken baboons the lot

Apart from the nasty disability reference, and the blanket generalisation, fans of many other clubs fit that description. Away trips are the highlight (or one of) of any real football fan's activities, and when you travel to a foreign city to see you team, beer is usually consumed in large quantities.

Bateman

Broadly agree with Kd, as Killah B's post was a stupid ill-informed post that contradicted itself by not differentiating between (some) Irish based Celtic fans, and Scot ones who happen to follow their local team, and dont base their decision on sectarianism or bigotry.

Jake303

Originally posted by Killah_B
The sheep and Celtic. Do you give a flock?

Why do so many Irish support Celtic? My laymans knowledge is; founded by and Irish priest in Glasgow as a Catholic Football Club cos Rangers wouldn't let catholics play (add your own romantic twist to this tale) MMmmm - that's it?


Celtic were never a "catholic club" the club has never had a secterian signing policy, where did you here that it had?
Rangers however did operate a secterian signing policy for many many years, however it was only adopted many years after the formation of Celtic fc


Basically an Irish Catholic team playing in a foriegn country in a shi-ite league and they have countrywide support. To my mind this is based purely on historical sectarianism and bigotry.


Since when does Irish or indeed catholic automatically=secterian?


I have also experienced numerous moments of threatened violence from Celtic supporters when I've cheered on another team (just for the crack I've cheered Rangers in pubs...) IS that what being a supporter is about? I'm City and I can enjoy a gam with my United mates and it's all good clean fun. Working in bars near Landsdowne I've also seen the behaviour of Celtic fans during their numerous visits here... retarded drunken baboons the lot. Remember the O'Connell street riot? The forced landing of the plane returning from one of Celtics european expeditions?


How often have you heard of Celtic fans being involved in trouble during European ties?
Was there any trouble when Celtic played Blackburn of Liverpool this season?
Why do the majority of English teams want Celtic fc if possible for testimonial matches?
Ill gladly put Celtic fc's reputation up against any English or European teams, care to take this up?
BTW your right, the fans do tend to drink alot.


So - Celtic fans - why? Why do you support a team in a meaningless league, based on bigotry and does it upset you that the Celtic fanbase seems to consist predominantly of inbred knackers?

I support a team in a meaningless league because this league has given the team I support the chance of winning a European competition this year.
We (most) dont use the word "knacker" in Ireland anymore because it brings up racist links about a section of the Irish population, so please if you can, could you substitute another word for "knacker" in future.
Many thanks

Jake303

Ooops, I messed up the above post and some of my replys were added to the quote from Killah_B

I was born in England when my parents went there from Ireland to find work and as Iv grown up in Ireland Iv come to identify with Celtic, a club founded by Irish immagrants and now one of the biggest footballing institutions in the world.

Why do you support city?

Dr Bolouswki

Big Chief

I've been to Parkhead twice - I have mates in Glasgow who, being of Irish extraction and Catholic, support Celtic... other than that they have no interest in soccer... I also went to Firhill btw, which for all you 'fans' of Scottish football, is Partick Thistles ground... Partick Thistle being the 3rd club in Glasgow (cue much headscratching amongst the hoop flock...) enjoyed chanting '**** your pope and **** your queen' for the visits of - well just about anyone really seeing as the rest of the Scottish league alligns itself roughly on secterian grounds too.....

AND yes - Parkhead is amazing. I'll get to my point later....

Bateman

I'm 'asking' for trouble by cheering a team on? Whatever about Rangers and the primal rage it seems to evoke in the furrowed brows of their great enemy, I've also been threatened for cheering on Blackburn against Celtic. And why can't I cheer Rangers? Why is it 'asking' for trouble? Thats what I'm trying to get at here...

And as for stupid and ill-informed? Read Simon Kupers 'Against the Enemy' and you'll get an insight into the Glasgow rivalry. I know what I'm talking about here Bateman. The 'knackers' comment was set to rile - I wanted some responses, and to get some debate going about the key issue here. Why support Celtic if not based on historical secterianism? It makes no sense otherwise... if you have any idea where their huge Irish support stems from if not this casual religious/quasi-Irish connection I'd like to hear it...

The Scottish League is a duopoly, plain and simple. Apart from Aberdeen and Hibs (correct me if I'm wrong) no-one else has won it in the last 20 years. Not a meaningless league? Certainly not to those who follow their team week in week out, and the UEFA cup sport provides a real goal, but most of the Celtic 'fans' I know live for the derby game and nothing else. They don't even know which team they're playing most weekends? Meaning? When the SPL will refuse Falkirk entry to its hallowed halls for the 2nd time cos even though they won the 1st division their ground isn't big enough? For a league where the average attendance outside the old firm is 8,500? Not much there for me - maybe you like your competitions one sided, like Formula 1 - and see how the support for that has waned...

Jake303

The usual crap. 'Rangers did this, Celtic were never that blah blah blah' I never said Celtic operated a secterian policy. Their fans seem quite happy to do that for them. 'Prod bastards' 'Orange scum' - these ring any bells? Go to yur local pub for the next old firm game... you'll get it all...

I never equated Irish and Catholic with bigotry - indeed I only describe Celtic as such because that is what their supporters see them as. Its churlish to pretend otherwise. Both old firm clubs have attempted to distance themselves from their stereotypes, without much success. And b4 you think I'm picking on Celtic fans, Rangers are as bad... see the shameful treatment of Neil Lennon... MMmmm wonder why Loyalists had such a problem with him when the team he plays for have no identity like you're suggesting...?? Can you guess?


To whit - no-one's giving me a convincing argument here. I apologise for any 'offence' caused by my original choice of words. There was method to it (provoke a response) but I stand by what I said. 'Real' football fans (as Big chief said) don't care about any of that and are decent fans, 'real' football fans (like bateman said) don't find their teams efforts meaningless. By all means support Celtic folks - but please please please, have a reason based on something other than tradition, religion and bigotry. Cos that's all I see the majority of Irish based Celtic supporters basing it on. And I find it thouroughly, nauseatingly stupid...

The drunken baboons thing? I'll stand by that too.. learn to drink...

bucks73

I would like to know how many Manchester derbies Killah_B has been to.

Dr Bolouswki

What the fcuk has that got to do with anything?

I've been to Maine Road 3 times this season... next time you manage to run into some derby tickets gimme a shout...:rolleyes:

bucks73

I have been to a few Manchester derbies and have seen trouble at all of them. If I was to apply your logic then all city fans are knackers also.

But I dont. I realise that every club in Britain has a few thugs and the majority of fans are well behaved.

There is always trouble after these games and indeed there is trouble in most cities around Britain on a Saturday.

As for Celtic being in a meaningless league they have something city will never have. A chance of silverware every season. European football every season. And a European Cup.

I think you are just jealous. 27 years.

claudius

ah, killah_b, your post makes me laugh. don't you see, the fact that the team was set up by irish immigrants means it has a connection with ireland and the irish. therefore a legitimate reason to support them, if you are irish. a good foundation to build impassioned support upon. legitimacy!

why do you support city? what have they ever done for you? i support arsenal, but i plumped for them as my team as they had david o'leary, liam brady, frank stapleton playing for them when i was a youngster. my choice was not just plucked out of the air.

Bateman

Killah B, you still have not explained your basis for following City. You have not explained WHY you follw them, you have not debated my point that supporting a team wuith a uniquely irish history is better than because you like the name (you leave youself open to this accusation as you have not given any other reason for how you came to support City), and you have instead fallen into the trap that most people who follow foreign teams fall into: "I've been three times to Maine Road this season, I'm the best...."

I've read " Football Against The Enemy" by Simon Kuper, and its pretty good. But what I want to know of Celtic and Rangers I don't need to find in a book. The Orange Order is an organisation full of scum-bags, if you disagree with this you need to learn more. The words "Prod bastards" are rarely heard these days, the sectarianism is more latent that that. You would know this if you had any idea what you are talking about.

I agree with some of your assertions, but you have openly admitted that you used a method to rile and incite aggressive responses, and this cannot defend the charge of stupid and immature.

You have made many points about how you see the situation, you see Celtic fans as aggressive sectarian drunks, so in that context it should be plain to see that if you support a team, an institution that once had an anti-Catholic transfer policy, against theirs, that if you are to be pragmatic, you are most definitely "asking for trouble". The argument of whether or not society can change these circumstances is another one, but for the moment, its asking for trouble.

Dr Bolouswki

This thread isn't about me supporting City - it's immaterial who I support. There's enough support ganrnered here to affirm my general view - which is that the majority of support for Celtic in Ireland is garnered from 'the aul enenmy' nonsense, which, whatever way you look at it, is the predominant attitude amongst most Irish scottish soccer supporters, regardless of their allegiance to Celtic/Rangers (particularly northern supporters)...

I've nothing against Celtic themselves. My two games in parkhead (5 years ago now) were against Hibs and Hearts - and it WAS an amazing experience - huge stadium, loads of noise, passion, laughs... great time...

Granted the Irish connection is valid - plenty of people I know, like Claudius, start to support teams for the Irish connection (hint: who did Niall Quinn play for 10 years ago?)... so I'll get t the crux of the biscuit.

I used to to have a vague support for Celtic. From the night Jock Stien died on the touchline I always had a soft spot for them. The years of miserable underachievement under Burns, Dalgliesh and Barnes were depressing (particularly in Europe)... but to be frank its the fans that have turned me away. The old firm games, when watched in Irish pubs, just remind me of all the problems we have on this Island and the mentality that creates it. If you don't see this I think you're letting your allegiances blind you. This thread was prompted by the problems I had when genuinely expressing admiration for a Blackburn move (Duff threading the ball through to Yorke) against Celtic. For my troubles I got a dig in the head and an ugly atmosphere of violence and intimidation. I was viewed as a 'traitor' 'prod' 'english bastard' (all terms used to describe me that night...) and ANY time I see Celtic play (in various locations) supporting the other team is seen as treason. If you don't support the team we do, we'll beat you up.

Friendly rivalry I'm all for - I have no special gripe against United fans for instance (other than the bandwagon jumpers) - but I recently watched the Manchester Derby in a pub and got none of the grief I got when waching Celtic play. And most of the pub was red. And wasn't it amazing that the Liverpool fans dissappeared into the woodwork when they played Celtic? Seems I'm not the only one that finds Celtic fans behaviour generally intimidating and ugly.....

I've no problem with Celtic, but while the majority of their fans allow sectarianism to dictate their passions, it'll be secular Partick Thistle for me (fcuk your pope and fcuk your queen WE ARE PARTICK THISTLE!!)

Dr Bolouswki

As for Celtic being in a meaningless league they have something city will never have. A chance of silverware every season. European football every season. And a European Cup.

1969 Cup winners cup Final. Man City 2 Gornik Zabrze 1

Not that it really matters (ancient history) but it is a european trophy....

European football every season? You think City couldn't get that playing in the equivalant (bar the old firm) of the Nationwide 2nd Division? (granted we only scrapped out our only season there, but you get my drift...)

Chance of silverware? Well, I'm quite prepared to wait and compete rather than to have only 1 meaningful domestic challenger in a season, in all competitions...

Its easy to knock City - we've been garbage for years... you're not really that clever when you mock the disabled... particularly when they've seemingly managed to throw away their crutches...

Jake303

Originally posted by Killah_B

I've no problem with Celtic, but while the majority of their fans allow sectarianism to dictate their passions, it'll be secular Partick Thistle for me (fcuk your pope and fcuk your queen WE ARE PARTICK THISTLE!!)

Again you say secterian, why continue with this approach?
Most fans I know support Celtic because of the IRISH association, not because of the secterianism.
However I will admit that some do, but why brand us all?

I do not accept the "protestant scum" comment at all though, I know very few Celtic fans who identify the club with catholism anymore.
Orange scum however is used in association with Rangers fc all the time
However orange and protestant are two very different things and it is your lack of understanding that associates to two together not bigotry on my/our part.

Hail Hail

Big Chief

i dont support celtic because of sectarian issues.

My mum is a protestant for starters, my dad a catholic. Am I in the minority? or yet again are you just spouting meaningless 'facts' where you have absoloutley no evidence to back up your claims?

claudius

ah, quinnaldo! also wore his disco pants at arsenal before city. i can see your point in some respects concerning celtic and your generalisation as to why irish people support them, but, if you look around the world, there are many nations on this globe of ours where fans behave deplorably in the name of supporting their team, eg italy (lazio's nazi fans), argentina (boca juniors anyone?) ....

football is not like cricket (bar india v pakistan), there will always be hatred involved, of other fans and other teams. look at england last night, 'stand up if you hate the turks'. soccer is a tribal affair, it replaces religion for many. unfortunately, people go too far in what they see as 'backing' their team. it turns to fanticism, which, as we all know, is bad.

i think many people support celtic as a misguided way of showing their irish identity. a badge of 'irishness', and a piss poor one at that. god bless irish culture.

Bateman

>boca juniors anyone?)

Why not River Plate? Boca happen to have the numbers, but football has social, political, and economic meanings in Argentina, taht it doesn't really have on the Continent. Lazio are scum though.

Dr Bolouswki

I'd use the same rational as claudius - I won't support Lazio cos of their ultras - its all part of the same malaise... and I jsut won't subscribe to it until its very much in the background

SprostonGreen

And what about City's Munich Song, mocking dead people ?

Dr Bolouswki

And what about City's Munich Song, mocking dead people ?

I hate it Sprongston - I think it's a disgrace mocking that tragedy - the idiots who sing this song don't even realise that one of City's greatest ever players, Frank Swift, died at Munich - not that it matters so much, as it was totally tragic anyway regardless fo what team the players were from.

Good point, but I'm in total agreement with you on it.

Bateman

People sing songs to annoy the opposition fans. This might involve mocking the dead, thats just part of it. Football fan culture isn't clean, and its not PC. The inside of an English football stadium, or any stadium really, for that matter, isn't really the place for you if you are one of the PC brigade.

Dr Bolouswki

Ahh bateman, me ol' mate - I'm pretty far from PC myself, though I do have libertine tendencies, they are tempered by a total disregard for the motivations and machinations of the common man and the society he has spawned...

I just don't personally find it tolerable to mock the dead. Its a cheap shot, kinda like constantly repeating the mantra "7 championships in 9 seasons" - it's too easy and has no style or flair...