Saddam: Alive or Dead?

PH01

With US cowboys at Baghdad airport, and Saddam himself hasn't been seen in a couple of days , do you think he's dead or alive.

Alive, and getting ready to spring the trap on the overconfident Allies

Cork

US cowboys at Baghdad airport

I was not aware there was a band of US cowboys at Saddam airport.

I hope that Saddam is alive so that he can be brought to justice.

I hope that Saddam is alive so that he can be brought to justice

Justice? you've got to be kidding me. For what, exactly? When someone commits murder, they are arrested and tried. This didn't happen to Saddam, when he openly performed his actions. Now, years after he did these things, he's to be brought to "justice"? Who's Justice are you talking about? This is not about justice. You really expect that he'll get a fair trial, or that it won't just be a lynching?

Cork

According to this morning's morning Ireland - plans are in existance to bring Saddam, members of his family & others to justice in a court within Iraq after this war is over.

I hope that that he is alive so that he will face due process.

aine

According to this morning's morning Ireland - plans are in existance to bring Saddam, members of his family & others to justice in a court within Iraq after this war is over.

what court might this be?? surely you dont believe that after failing to obtain international backing at the UN george w is now going to turn around and say......ok so you can hold the trial under your conditions etc?? come off it! and if he does it will be the greatest sham ever! the institutions he has helped to render not quite powerless but rather ineffective tools of international diplomacy!

According to this morning's morning Ireland - plans are in existance to bring Saddam, members of his family & others to justice in a court within Iraq after this war is over.

For which crimes? Surely if he was considered guilty he would have been brought to "justice" when they occured, not some 10 years later...? This is going to be a justification trial for the war, nothing more.

I hope that that he is alive so that he will face due process

Due process usually means, a fair trial. I can't see him getting anything like that in Western Europe. Are you really going to fool yourself into believing that he will?

Hell, i'd trust Chinese courts more than i would the western courts, for this trial, should it happen...

Saruman

Originally posted by klaz
Justice? you've got to be kidding me. For what, exactly? When someone commits murder, they are arrested and tried. This didn't happen to Saddam, when he openly performed his actions. Now, years after he did these things, he's to be brought to "justice"? Who's Justice are you talking about? This is not about justice. You really expect that he'll get a fair trial, or that it won't just be a lynching?

This is off topic but how and ever... firstly i dont know if he is or is not alive.. so i refuse to vote due to no 3rd option.

Secondly klaz think clearly please... when someone murders someone they dont have an army, arsnel of weapons and possible even weapons of mass destruction (note i said possible).

The only way to get him to face trial is to go in and get him with your own army!! As to your question

For what, exactly?

This was Rhetorical as you answered it yourself

Now, years after he did these things, he's to be brought to "justice"?

This happens ALL THE TIME in the real world.. someone gets away with murder and only 30 years later is he finally brought to justice.

I DONT support the war with Iraq.. there are far worse palces than Iraq.. some like N Korea openly inviting nuclear war with the US.. bunch of muppets... Sadam has been very quiet for a long time and not threatened anyone but his own people. But he IS GUILTY of Genocide and if you can argue that he is not then fine.. just be quiet about it and leave me out of it.

Saruman, i'm still a believer in innocent until proven guilty. Regardless, of the chemical attack, he'll end up being charged for other crimes, which should have to be proven, that he is guilty.

Secondly klaz think clearly please... when someone murders someone they dont have an army, arsnel of weapons and possible even weapons of mass destruction (note i said possible).

Actually i am thinking clearly about this. At a base level, what Saddam has done, is murder. Hell we've seen the video footage that he has of killing someone. I do think he should be brought to bear for his actions. At the same time, i think that he should be tried by a fair court , not some show piece trial, where he doesn't stand a chance of defending himself.

Also if he gets tried for this war, i'll laugh myself silly, since by that reckoning, Bush should also be tried.

This ahppens ALL THE TIME in the real world.. someone gets away with murder and only 30 years later is he finally brought to justice.

It doesn't happen all the time. Its just happened a number of times in the past, so it has a precedent. On the other hand, consider that Saddam has NOT been in hiding. He has not ever tried to excape. NOBODY has ever tried to bring him to justice for these crimes before. Why? So why now?

I DONT support the war with Iraq.. there are far worse palces than Iraq.. some like N Korea openly inviting nuclear war with the US.. bunch of muppets... Sadam has been very quiet for a long time and not threatened anyone but his own people. But he IS GUILTY of Genocide and if you can argue that he is not then fine.. just be quiet about it and leave me out of it.

Number of points here:

1) N.Korea are threatening, yes. I agree. But i think most of it is in response to US demands, & blustering.
2) Yes, saddam has been quiet for a long time, so why bring war to him now?
3) he's possibly guilty of genocide. He has never been tried and a guilty verdict has never been brought against him.

just be quiet about it and leave me out of it.

Bugger this. If you want to post on these boards expect people to argue with you, if we think you're wrong. Don't state your opinions and expect us to accept them, just because YOU think you're right. If you want me to leave you out of it, don't bother posting here. That way you'll never have to discuss anything.

I hate that kind of attitude.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

bonkey

Originally posted by klaz
If you want me to leave you out of it, don't bother posting here. That way you'll never have to discuss anything.

I hate that kind of attitude.

You're not the only one.

This is the second time since the whole Iraq thing sprang up that I've seen poster's effectively saying "Here's my opinion on X, but I'm not willing to discuss it".


The following is not particularly aimed at Saruman, because I know from experience that he generally is willing to discuss what he posts, and I'd write this off to frustration or a bad day, or whatever you like.....but I've had enough of seeing this attitude.

So...

If you (the reader) are not willing to discuss your opinion, then dont offer it. This is not a soap-box forum, it is for discussion. If you dont want to partake, dont. If you want to half-partake, I'll leave it to you to decide to change that decision to full or nothing before I do it for you.

jc

davelerave

he just opened a new supermarket in baghdad,at least it looked like him

Originally posted by klaz
Saruman, i'm still a believer in innocent until proven guilty. Regardless, of the chemical attack, he'll end up being charged for other crimes, which should have to be proven, that he is guilty.

Agreed, but there is substantial grounds for bringing Sadam and many others before a court of his peers.

Regarding your argument with Saruman on , justice after 30 years,it's a common enough practice today, where people have faced justice for their crimes based on todays, forensic science.

Due process usually means, a fair trial. I can't see him getting anything like that in Western Europe. Are you really going to fool yourself into believing that he will?

Are you saying that,anyone responsible ( if evidence is shown ) for crimes against humanity in Iraq should be let off the hook and perhaps, sent to a holiday home in Courtown?
I actually think Sadam is dead, long, long ago and that the backers of his regime are unknown.
As I type, the Iraqi info minister, says they have crushed the U.S forces at Baghdad airport:rolleyes:
The spoutings of an actor if you ask me.
mm

therecklessone

Originally posted by Man

Are you saying that,anyone responsible ( if evidence is shown ) for crimes against humanity in Iraq should be let off the hook and perhaps, sent to a holiday home in Courtown?

God no. That'd be worse than hanging, you sadist...

I'd take my chances with the Yanks.

aine

I thought it was kinda funny during the week when the "coalition of the willing" declared that he must be at the very least on his death bed....what evidence did they base that one on?? oh right one of his 'henchmen' delivered a speech that he was scheduled to give!

Im sorry George....I thought he was using doubles all along anyway! why the hell would they not send one of those??

just another note on GW's lack of functioning brain cells! when informed that the rescue mission launched to free the teenage non combatant...Jessica? had been a success, what words of enlightenment did the 'leader' of the free world churn out?? what pearls of wisdom did he offer on the arrival of such morale boosting news?

wait for it......"oh thats great"

glad you waited for that eh?

Cork

In todays Sunday Tribune newspaper - there are a whole lot of pictures of the various Saddams.

On the radio the other night - the news reader stated a youthful looking Saddam was seen on the streets of Bagdad.

Sand

Yeah, its really a case of whether you believe its him or if its just a double. I dont think anyone outside the Iraqi leadership knows for certain - all that is known is that the American started the war early because they were pretty certain they knew where he was, and it hasnt been proven conclusively that he is alive or dead since. And the inner circle around him arent going to admit hes dead any more than theyre going to admit the US were within 100 miles of Baghdad, that they took the international airport, or that they drove right through Baghdad with only one death and a damaged tank they towed out with them again.

One thing that would be worth finding out is if Saddams sons have been seen in public since the start of the war, they - or at least one of them - were supposed to have been with Saddam when he was targeted. Ive not heard of them having doubles, so if theyre going about the streets without serious injury then Saddam mightnt have kicked it yet either.

Either way hes finished - the Iraqis are sounding more and more detached from reality with their secret weapons and rejection of the reality that the US can go into Baghdad when and where it chooses and the Iraqis cant do much about it.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by klaz
For which crimes? Surely if he was considered guilty he would have been brought to "justice" when they occured, not some 10 years later...?

Who would have been in a position to bring him to trial at that time? He was hardly going to order the police to arrest himself for gassing the Kurds.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by aine
I thought it was kinda funny during the week when the "coalition of the willing" declared that he must be at the very least on his death bed....what evidence did they base that one on?? oh right one of his 'henchmen' delivered a speech that he was scheduled to give!

The main purpose of this was to cast doubt on his existance in order to encourage surrender by troops loyal to him. If at least some of them believed he might be dead, this would lessen their will to fight somewhat.

To a certain extent, it would also help lessen his authority on the general population.