outrage

joey D

I saw a little ad in a paper over the weekend for Sky Sports - next year they will have Champions League coverage.

Does this mean TV3 or ITV won't have it? Or will they share?

To me it's simply unthinkable that Sky Sports will basically have ALL the club football coverage in England, and now the Champions League. I'm outraged, disgusted and er... outraged.

Of course this won't really bother Liverpool fans as Dyanmo Darndale have a greater chance of qualifying for Champions League than the Kop.

But jibes against Liverpool aside, this Sky Sports monopolising has to stop, the only winners will be the publicans in whose dingy pubs we'll be forced to watch the games, and of course Murdoch.

It's a bloody disgrace!

Nemici

yeah that bunch of profiteering bas*ards, but the way I see it you have two choices and two only.

if you like football of any kind and dont want to spend countless hours in the boozer throwing your cash over the bar then unfortunately one course of action and thats to get sky sports.
(until somebody else rises from the depths of public or private broadcasting that is)

otherwise you can take a stand and dont get sky sports and go into work and read the paper, and try and imagine the 40 yard screamer that won the game in the 93rd minute

I think I will pay it !!! I am not gonna miss any 40 yard screamers and the money you save not going to the pub will pay for it in a matter of weeks anyway.

joey D

you don't work for Sky do you?

Only joking, but there's no way I'm going to fork our for it... although I accept your point about saving money you might spend on coke / crisps / booze....

Hyzepher

Next year Sky will have rights for the UK. Here in Ireland TV£ and RTE are sharing the coverage - still 2 games a week - one on each channel.

For those with Sky sports this could mean the choice of 4 games a week - two on Tues and 2 on Wed (of course you will only be able to watch one per day). I aslo expect that the same games will be covered on both sides of the channel (ManU, Arsenal, New Castle etc)

Hyzepher

Waylander

As a customer of sky I am happy that sky have the rights. For starters they will show all the matches on on a night and you can choose which one you want to watch. Also they produce a much better programme then any of the others, and their commentators are the least irritating to my mind. I think my monthly sky sub is money well spent.

ciano

I think it basically means that UTV loose out, right?

BKtje

I really prefer Sky's program to RTE's or TV3's or UTV's.

If what you say is true, only people to loose out will be UTV.

joey D

Just one thing springs to mind, it's not the coverage or commentary quality that is the issue here - it's the monopoly issue, the fact that Murdoch's relentless media control means people who can't afford the subscription are being deprived of what was once free-to-air sport.... it's the same with Ireland's home games when the FAI sold out for 7 million... I'm just totally against it and I think the kind of apathy illustrated here is a sad indictment of the benign attitude of people towards Sky's activities - it's not right, and it should be discouraged.

Mossy Monk

Tuesday Night Coverage
TV3
ITV (2 games, 1 on ITV1 and the other on another ITV channel, likely ITV2)
Sky (all games except for what ITV are showing)

Wednesday Night Coverage
RTÉ
Sky (all games)

the only winner here is the viewer. there will be no reduction in choice for anyone living in this country

Xterminator

Originally posted by joey D
Just one thing springs to mind, it's not the coverage or commentary quality that is the issue here - it's the monopoly issue, the fact that Murdoch's relentless media control means people who can't afford the subscription are being deprived of what was once free-to-air sport.... it's the same with Ireland's home games when the FAI sold out for 7 million... I'm just totally against it and I think the kind of apathy illustrated here is a sad indictment of the benign attitude of people towards Sky's activities - it's not right, and it should be discouraged.

Err yeh right.

Of cousre you convieniently forget all the money sky have plowed into football, which has allowed the Premiership clubs to attract some of the worlds best, Van Nisterroy, Vierra, Igor Bischan etc.

Football has benifited from Sky. Sky has benifited from Football.
TBH given the wages tio top footballers are getting these days, if football was relying on the BBC and UTV for there main sponsoship deals, they wouldnt even be hanging on the Beckhams or the Owens, let alone attracting the best of the other countries.

I dont understand this attitude that people have where they think there are entitled to see football on terrestial TV for free?

X

Waylander

I think the FA and the FAI are entitled to sell their products to whoever they should wish. RTE were offering the FAI €1m for the same deal. How can you say that Sky should not have been awarded the deal 7m v 1m, to me it is not even up for consideration. Rte regularly try and abuse the fact that they are the state sponsored station, thinking they are automatically entitled to right like this. I am glad the Fai sold to someone else, and it is very rare I agree with them. As for the premiership and european cups, there is no way it could be regulated who gets the rights for these.

joey D

Xterminator:

football has benefited from Sky? What are you on about? Did you not read my post? Firstly, Sky and Premiership Plc. have benefited, and secondly we as consumers have lost out, it so blinkered of you, maybe it's your age because you don't remember when football was actually something you watched on telly without having to pay anything apart from the TV license

Quote:
"I dont understand this attitude that people have where they think there are entitled to see football on terrestial TV for free?"

Oh my God! Do you not realise how you have become conditioned to believe that paying ridiculous annual subscriptions to see football is normal? What the hell do you mean 'entitled to see football'? You actually sound like Murdoch himself.

As for footballers wages, once again you show an incredible naivety and blind acceptance of the status quo without questioning it. Don't you see that one begets the other? The whole footballers wages thing is a by-product of TV (especially Sky) buying football.

This is just too sad and frustrating to even bother continuing, wake up dude! read a newspaper once in a while.

Gaffo

I'm with joey D on this one. He's absolutely right that Sky and Premiership Plc have benefited mostly and some of the clubs have as well, but only the big name clubs like Man U and Arsenal and the like have been the main benefeciaries from this massive injection of cash as its their games that can be sold for big money. Players see their clubs making huge profits from their talents and of course they want a cut of it.
Move further down the league table though and all the clubs that are facing relugation battles are nearly all in financial disarray. Its these clubs that need the cash generated by the Sky revenue and they only seem to get a fraction of what the big clubs receive.
Its a bit of a catch 22 situation for the lower clubs. The only way they can receive big telly money is if their team is performing on the pitch, and more often than not the only way they can do that is with a lot of cash. Fulham is a prime example of this.
If the Premiership is to survive the FA need to step in and come up with as resolution.

Xterminator

Originally posted by joey D
Xterminator:

football has benefited from Sky? What are you on about? Did you not read my post? Firstly, Sky and Premiership Plc. have benefited, and secondly we as consumers have lost out, it so blinkered of you, maybe it's your age because you don't remember when football was actually something you watched on telly without having to pay anything apart from the TV license

Sorry to stop you there.

My age?! You dont know me, and you dont know my age either.
Suffice it to say, i'm married, and I have 3 children.
Your assumtion is just plain wrong.

I watched free to air footie for many a year. However this doesnt make it a 'right', just a privilige.
Towards the end of the 'free' era, the Football league could not compete with Serie A. English footballers were told if they wanted to prove themselves they had to play inj a better league!
You dont hear that claim too often anymore, do you?

Originally posted by joey D
Oh my God! Do you not realise how you have become conditioned to believe that paying ridiculous annual subscriptions to see football is normal? What the hell do you mean 'entitled to see football'? You actually sound like Murdoch himself.

As for footballers wages, once again you show an incredible naivety and blind acceptance of the status quo without questioning it. Don't you see that one begets the other? The whole footballers wages thing is a by-product of TV (especially Sky) buying football....

Football is a product. If Sky (on anybody) over price it, then i wont buy it. But at the moment, i feel i get what I pay for.
It is you my friend who is stuck in the dark ages, not willing to understand/accept the marketplace has changed.

For years before we had digital TV, it was in America. They had pay per view events, subscription channells etc. long before us.
It was inevitable that things went this way, as footie is a professional sport.

But like all market forces, the structure of the premeiership, (and this includes the wages of the stars) will be determned by the market forces. Already the more realistic views being expressed by people like the Arsenal chairman, are that the wages have peaked, and stars will not be getting 20+% increases on each new contract.

To put it simply, market forces are naturaly taking effect.
It is not that I dont question the status quo, I actually as the consumer exert some control over it.

If Sky charge too much next year, I will cancel my subscription. If enough people so this, Sky will (a) reduce there prices, and (b) pay the premiership less for the TV rights. if the premiership income is reduced, then the wages they pay footballers will be reduced. Its a simple equasion. As long as i feel i'm getting value for money, everyones happy.

joey D

I accept some of your points, but just because it happened in America doesn't mean it should happen here, market forces or not.

Gaffo is right about the minnows in the Premierhsip who end up financially banjaxed after a brief sojourn in the top flight - Leicster being one example of many - again, this is a by-product of the consequences of football turning into one big revenue-generating machine for a small number of corporations / companies / individuals.

It's the prinicple of the whole thing, it's the fundamentals behind it - free-to-air sport, especially football, is most definitely NOT a privilege - it's become that way because nobody, governments and regulatory bodies especially, had the guts or backbone to stop the incessant monopolising by the likes of Sky Sports.

Football isn't a product by the way. And I'm delighted to hear you are married with three kids, although that doesn't actually tell me anything about your age, for all I know you could be 18, but that's irrelevant really, I shouldn't have brought it up.

Gaffo

The biggest fear I'd have is that digital channels take too much control, which is exactly what happened in the states.

American Football used to be quite similar to soccer in that the game flowed non-stop but had 4 quarters instead. Because of pressure from networks the NFL actually introduced time-outs specifically for ad breaks. Same happened to the hockey league. Basketball already had enough time-outs as it was without changing the game.

My first experience of pay-per-view was as a kid when wrestling events turned to Sky. I hated it. I just hope that the football league don't get bullied into these changes that were imposed upon games in the states by big networks. They all said it wouldn't happen and now look at it.

bucks73

I dont know what the outrage is about. There will be the same amount of games on terrestrial TV next season as there are this season.

Those who wish to pay Sky to watch even more games and have a choice of games may do so at a cost. No-one is forcing you to pay Sky. BTW if you watch games on ITV are you not also paying for that?

For my sky sub next season I will get premiership, football league, scottish cup, fa cup, ireland internationals, england internationals, champions league, league cup and spanish football. Well worth it IMO.



ITV and BSkyB secure rights
Wednesday, 25 September 2002
UEFA Champions League matches will be broadcast on ITV and BSkyB in the United Kingdom for the next three seasons following an agreement for the sale of television rights for that territory, UEFA has announced.

Extensive, exclusive coverage
The decision will mean that ITV, the current UK rights holder, will show two of the best matches live each Tuesday, while BSkyB, the leading UK pay-TV operator, will have exclusivity each Wednesday and the opportunity to broadcast the remaining matches after ITV's intial selection each Tuesday.

'Delighted with the outcome' - Aigner
“We are delighted with the outcome of this first bidding process [as] the result will give much more choice to fans and provide excellent platforms for the UEFA Champions League matches in the UK," said UEFA Chief Executive Gerhard Aigner. "We are looking forward to working with our broadcasting partners, both old and new, and offer our best wishes to the other bidders who have shown such interest in this great competition.”

Market growth
Although the financial terms of this first agreement will not be revealed for confidentiality reasons, the outcome means that the UK market has demonstrated a significant growth in revenues for the Champions League despite the reduction in the size of the competition from next season from 17 match weeks to 13.

Difficult decision
Another bid for the live rights, described as 'competitive' was received from the BBC, but UEFA's decision to opt for ITV and BSkyB was based on an assessment of the overall revenues to European football, the commercial opportunities offered and the promotion of the competition available through this combination of free-to-air and pay-TV broadcasting.

Programming detail
In detail, from next season and subject to contracts being finalised, ITV will transmit the two best live games each Tuesday night, with BSkyB able to show the other games live on that night. On Wednesday, BSkyB will have all games available on an exclusive basis. Highlights programmes will also be divided between the two broadcasters, with ITV showing highlights on Tuesdays and BSkyB on Wednesdays, while both channels will also show promotional 'magazine' programmes. In addition, the UEFA Champions League final will be shown simultaneously live by both broadcasters from the 2003/04 season.

Five broadcasters involved
In total, the bidding process attracted interest from all five of the UK’s leading broadcasters across the various packages available, and was conducted under the terms of the recent agreement for the UEFA Champions League TV sales process between UEFA and the European Commission.


Shared TV rights in Scandinavia and Ireland
Friday, 08 November 2002
Two broadcasters will share the main TV rights for the screening of live UEFA Champions League matches in Denmark, Norway and Sweden in the period between 2003 and 2006, while coverage in the Republic of Ireland will also be shared.

Comprehensive evaluation
UEFA announced today that TV3 and Viasat would share the rights in the three Scandinavian countries after an extensive bidding process, and a comprehensive evaluation by UEFA and its marketing partner, TEAM. The two broadcasters best satisfied the criteria of evaluation agreed with the European Commission.

Top four matches
This decision means that all matches throughout the season will be televised in all three countries, with the top four matches per week shown on free-to-air broadcaster TV3, and all other matches aired on the Viasat pay-TV channel.

Irish rights
The Irish television rights to the first four Champions League matches per week were awarded to a combination of TV3 (Ireland) and RTE. TV3 was awarded the rights to its choice of two matches on a Wednesday evening, to be broadcast live and immediately delayed, plus a highlights programme on Wednesday. RTE's Wednesday rights also include the final live.

BKtje

I would be of the age where i dont remember much life football on tv before Sky. Ie. im twenty now.

Tbh i dont think English football would be as big or enjoyable to watch without SKY plowing money into it. The English clubs just wouldn't have been able to keep the stars that their mainland european competitors could.

True the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting..what? the same? I doubt that because of Sky the relegation zone clubs are actually getting less money as Sky show games from everywhere in the table. (i thought sky payed the premier league and the premier league then give out the funds to the whole league? or am i mixed up with another country).

As for a 'ridiculous sub price', i get all the football that a poster above said, i also get golf, cricket etc. Well worth the small fortune i pay. You dont get all these high profile and costly sports on one(3) channel without paying that bit extra. If it wasnt for sky i dont think id see nearly as much sport as i like to see.
Ok this means that terrestrial tv misses out on some big sporting events but to be honest, i say tough.

If people didnt want what sky offer then it wouldnt be happening.
Its a pity i guess for people who cant afford/ wont get Sky but i aint gonna stop getting the channels unless there is a sharp increase in subs.

Bateman

>the only winners will be the publicans in whose dingy pubs we'll be forced to watch the games, and of course Murdoch.

Thats more or less the way its been for quite a few years now. In fairness, the Champions League cake is being spread very widely for the past couple of years, it seems like Sky are slowly moving in for the kill ...

bucks73

It will never be sold exclusively to Sky though. EU law ensures that the CL must be available on Free To View terrestrial TV and they have first choice on the games they are showing on their designated nights.

byte

I'll be happy enough as long as games are also aired on terrestrial TV. Sky though will show the games not shown on terrestrial tv which would be handy if you'd prefer to watch the other games.

I recently did a ConsumerLink survey which basically was along the lines of if I'd like the options to choose to watch from a variety of live games at the same time, by means of interactive services etc (Sky)