Reclaim the Streets

honkdub

Looking for discussion on rts
its happening this yr at an unspecified street in dublin on may 5th
the bank holiday monday

RTS originated from environmental campaigns against motor-way building in England but has expanded to cover lots of urban life issues and been copied now all over the world.
background info http://rts.gn.apc.org/evol.htm
Its about cars strangling out cities its about public spaces its about the freedom to gather on our own streets, its about improving urban life.


Basically a group of people hold a party on the street blocking it of cars and creating a free area for an evening, free from cars free from party politics, branding, ownership, not anti-everything just free party.

It will be one year from the happenings on dame Str last year. RTS
sets out to have a peaceful party it is clear from recent actions that the police are the ones who cause the trouble and the injuries.

We looking for people to do entertainment or jsut join us for the party check out the public mailing list at
rts-dublin@yahoogroups.com

mike65

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62960&highlight=reclaim+streets

Ahhhh, those were the days and days and days of argument!

Mike.

DadaKopf

Were you at the meeting on the 4th? Are there any minutes of the meeting or anything like that? When's the next meeting?

Oh, and how does one subscribe to the yahoogroup?

I'm looking forward to this year's RTS but also to the discussion at the meetings.

Unfortunately, I won't be around so I hope it all goes well and it's bigger and more fun than last year.

cormac_byrne

The Yahoo Group indicates that the RTS will meet 2pm, the GPO, Monday 5th May.

There's also a Critical Mass meetup for cyclists 1:30pm, Garden of Rememberance, Monday 5th May.

DeVore

are they going to burn a car (even if it is their own) or exactly what are we going to end up "supporting".

I like the idea and support the motive but I'm cautious of the methods and what you end up in terms of "bathwater" when all you want to support is "baby".

DeV.

cormac_byrne

I think that the car with the orange smoke was acknowledged to be a mistake. (wasn't there myself) There wasn't anything like that at the September "Car Free Day" party. Also the fact that the September party disbanded at a predetermined time meant that there weren't any issues with isolated bunches of stragglers at the end. It was simply a joyful party, Music, Dancing, Street theatre, Juggling, Face Painting, Free Food etc...

Hopefully that's the sort of party we'll see on the 5th May.

DadaKopf

I also hope the SWP get the idea and refrain from selling merchandise at the next one, too. I told them off for it and they blanked me like arrogant pricks.

ReefBreak

The reality is that the RTS people are considered by the VAST majority to be nothing more than posh, scruffy, crusty students with too much time on their hands. Until you achieve more support among the mainstream populace, you'll ahieve nothing.

However, there's zero chance of this mainstream support appearing because most people have better things to do, such as staying employed, and earning some Euros. Ideas such as abandoning consumerism and embracing a car-free lifestyle simply don't wash.

Of course we'd all like to see the traffic on Dame St/wherever reduced - but anyone that thinks it can be achieved by "Music, Dancing, Street theatre, Juggling, Face Painting, Free Food" is just a bit deluded. More and better public transport is what's needed, and that takes a lot more effort (and a different thread).

Although, I'd guess if the RTS thing became mainstream, most of the them would look elsewhere to find an outlet for a bit o' fight da power rebelliousness...

Sparks

Of course we'd all like to see the traffic on Dame St/wherever reduced - but anyone that thinks it can be achieved by "Music, Dancing, Street theatre, Juggling, Face Painting, Free Food" is just a bit deluded.

And you would suggest what instead? Writing letters to politicians that know their jobs are safe for the next five years and then in all probability safe again anyway for just a few months short-term, high-profile charitable works?
The problem with working within the system is that our system is corrupt and rules tend to get forgotten when they get akward for those with influence. So, shy of terrorism, this is about as good as they can get.

mazzyianne

We really need people to help out with Food not Bombs for RTS. If anyone can help at all please email us at fnbdublin@yahoo.com or better still join our mailing list - send an email to
foodnotbombs@thisbetterworld.org

thanks

Boston

<snip ignorant abusive hate>

Sorry Boston, that was heat, not light.

DeV.

ps: note to self. Politics mods are better at this then you are.

Redshift

Who exactly are they supposed to be re-claiming the streets from? Other Irish people going about their lawful business perhaps. I have the upmost respect for your opinions but there are plently of places to go where there are no cars where you can have a nice evening there are big car free parks in the city centre provided for your enjoyment but this is a city and there are enough problems and hassle for people as it is.

Red

bonkey

Boston, thats completely out of order, and you know the rules better than that.

One week ban.

jc

swiss

Originally posted by Boston:

I seriously hope you lot get your head kicked in again. thats not a flame, that just my pure disguse at you scumbags taking over dublin streets, getting pissed and getting violent and not caring about the ordinary people of dublin who have to get from a to b. self centred bastards.

"and why do you think you can smash up a car in the middle of the street and not get arrested" cause where ****ing the system man, anyway it was our car" "did the gardi know that"

sorry but there it is, you bunch of pink communist twats.

Another outburst like this, and I can make it so that you don't see these "pink communist twats" post's anymore.

The RTS people have the right to express their point of view that a car free environment would be more beneficial in environmental and social terms. While I am dubious about the merits of blocking transportation for others as a form of protest, I can understand their motives, and while I do not subscribe to them, at least I can refrain from posting hate-filled invective like what you're posting here.

If you have an opinion, try to put it in civil terms (if possible) or do not post at all.

[edit] Just read bonkey's post. Agreed, it was completely out of line, and I have no problem with his decision. Subject to the ability of posting in a civil manner, you can post here again in a week [/edit]

Cork

The RTS people have the right to express their point of view that a car free environment would be more beneficial in environmental and social terms. While I am dubious about the merits of blocking transportation for others as a form of protest, I can understand their motives, and while I do not subscribe to them, at least I can refrain from posting hate-filled invective like what you're posting here.


They have a right to their openions & the right to protest - but I think blocking transportation for others as a form of protest is dangerous.

Transport is used for emergencies. Transport is used to get around the city. Blocking transportation as a form of protest achieves little.

Why not encourage the use of public transport. The car is pretty common in 2003 just as the horse was 100 years ago. The streets have always been used to transport goods and people - But I surpose today cars are not longer seen as luxerys but as neccessary to get around the city.

As a non motorist - In my openion, blocking transportation just alienates those who need to travel. It does nothing to highlight the need for more public transport.

DadaKopf

Emergency vehicles already have a tough time getting to emergencies as it is.

The problem isn't that a few thousand people hold an event that challenges car/consumer culture for a few hours one day a year. The problem is that not enough people are prepared to use alternative transport. The problem is that Dublin has been seriously underinvested in in terms of transport, urban social planning and economic and housing development planning. The result is a completely unsustainable and uhealthy city.

While we're waiting for transport and development initiatives to come on stream (and these are always dogged by political manipulations), we should not only start demanding our politicians to get the job done right but we should start taking the situation into our own hands and change the way we use cities.

For those who go down the economic end of things as regards the ideals of RTS, I'll point out something. Ireland has become a victim of its own success. Chronic congestion in Dublin that has risen in direct correlation with economic growth since 1985 (rated only slightly better than Calcutta) is already having an adverse effect on businesses due to rediculous delivery times and accessibility. Car culture is even conspiring against economic sustainability. This has nothing to do with a few people blocking the roads for one day a year - that doesn't even register on the radar - it's because of underinvestment in public transport and a public unwillingness to use what's there or to responsibly find alternative solutions.

Getting out of our cars for everything other than essential journeys would be a much better long term solution to traffic congestion rather than concerns over a few thousand people making a political point once a year. I personally find this objection to RTS unfounded.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Sparks

daveirl,
Please stop it with the sarcasm, it's damn hard to get tea out of a keyboard!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Sparks

Sorry dave, can't agree with that. The idea with the Gardai is that they uphold the law, not break it at a whim. Especially not in the way that they did. And it was made doubly worse by the "code of silence" we saw in the investigation.

Paralleling another thread :rolleyes:,
RTS dodgy to bad,
Gardai behaviour bad.

honkdub

since initiating the thread i've read through 5 pages of dicussion pre september

two things came up,
1. public transport and people suggstions

2. the reason for rts being very, very unclear to people

(3. get a job sh***te)

2. a typical quote from that thread..."The problem I have with RTS is that their is no real definate goal or solution that they are putting forward."

as opposed to critical mass, rts covers a lot of issues and therfore is harder to define or to categorise, basically its an example of what all the urban, communities lobbying efforts could achieve by having a car-free bike friendly brand commercial free zone for an afternoon wher people can gather freely.

it is a place for all people concerned with economic and enviromental issues to gather for a day not to be anti this or that but to have a celebration of what could be...

the issues of bus lanes is a good un, i wouldn't want to block any buses but if i thought we let buses through and cheeky car drivers wouldn't try and nip round us aswell then i'd be happy

rts will clean its own litter up as most groups holding free parties do and i myself cleaned up after antiwar demos outside the dail

thats allf for now.... ta

being more clear on what rts is defo something to be looked at but i think already theres a move to provide more information on the day , rts did get overshadowed by other things so no wonder nobody knew what _RTS_ was about...








i still want to know how to add a poll to my first post?

Sand

Footpaths are for people to walk on.

Streets are for motor vehicles to drive on - cyclists too but they seem confused as to what rules they follow - traffic lights and stuff like that.

Dont get the two mixed up or youll end up like a lot of pedestrians involved in traffic accidents.

Hold your hippyfest in places like Stephens Green, or the Phoenix Park - areas set aside for such stuff without inconveniencing the rest of the people living, working and travelling in the city.

Block the streets with your crap, well meaning as it might be and as effective as it might sound when youre getting drunk at your local, and then act like you were the victims when youre cleared off them. And while you have a right to exspress your opinions not many (actually, is anyone? ) are going to care if the Gardai have to beat you off the streets again - only people reclaiming the streets for everyone to use last year were the Gardai, and a good thing too.

Cabaal

Originally posted by Sand
Footpaths are for people to walk on.

Streets are for motor vehicles to drive on - cyclists too but they seem confused as to what rules they follow - traffic lights and stuff like that.

Not to mention those cars that drive on the footpath and don't know how to use roundabouts.

Actually that can't be true, cars never break the rules....

But lets not turn this thread into that debate

kitty-kat

Hi, I’ve just joined the list. I’ll apologise in advance because I know this will be long, so many good questions being posed here.
Firstly though, I’d appreciate it if people could be a bit more accurate when making claims about events. For example stating that participants at the May 6th street party provoked the police reaction is simply not true. There have been no allegations even on the part of Gardaí, that there was violence within, on the periphery or even the general viscinity of the “protestors”. Not a single Garda sustained even the most minor of injuries. If this is to be an intelligent debate where all parties genuinely wish to tackle this issue, then I think all parties really ought to stick to the facts. A few eyes were opened outside the Dáil on Wednesday 2nd April of this year. People of many different ages and backgrounds were shocked and horrified to see that Gards actually are violent towards peaceful protestors sometimes! I wish I were surprised, they are there to KEEP THE PEACE, not attempt to invoke riots (however much they’d like to try out their new kit), unfortunately, there is a huge naïve faith that our boys ‘ud never do a thing like that.

QUOTE: If you have a problem with Government demostrate outside the Dail, if you have a problem with a Corporate entity, demostrate outside their headquarters but to effect the ordinary citizen from going about their own business is selfish, stupid and counter productive.

Great care and consideration was given to the location of the street party for the previous 2 parties; Burgh quay has the least amount of bus traffic out of all the quays and therefore disrupted Dublin Bus as little as possible. Furthermore, unlike in many other major cities, rts events have been held on Bank holidays or Sundays, because people are sensitive to the risk of alienating people.
You see, the distinction here is RTS is not supposed to be a demonstration for politicians or corporations to react to. The whole point is that ordinary citizens can realise (i.e. make real) a car free area in the city centre for a few hours and hopefully apply the same thinking to their respective district/estate/street. It’s amazing how conscious you can become of just how socially destructive car culture really is – the local greengrocer and I had to yell to each other ion his shop (!) on Saturday because the sheer volume of traffic through our “village” is deafening. How can a sense of community flourish in streets that are filthy, noisy and dangerous?

The point about blocking transportation for others not being a favourable form of protest baffles me… of the hundreds of cars I pass in the morning & evening the vast majority have a ratio of 1 car-1 person, so 50 cars for 50 people? Or one bus for 60 people. C’mon! Who’s blocking who? EVERY DAY. Pedestrians are not entitled to ONE DAY where they are, at the very least, as important as a chunk of metal and glass? Emergency vehicles would have a far easier time getting where they need to be in a car free city, human beings have very good reaction skills to sirens – even crusties.

Reclaim the Streets street parties are, as far as I’m concerned, also a call to residents of Dublin to stop passing the buck. So many car drivers are fed up with the traffic…they ARE the congestion!!! So car pool, ride a bike, walk. Until we have a decent transport system (you can see the polly’s are very focussed on transport – just look at what they’re prepared to spend on their jet!) there is really no point whining about these troublesome, what is it, “posh, crusty types”(???) being an inconvenience when as far as most people are concerned the problem is not theirs to assist in solving. I think the general populace needs to accept you’re either part of the solution or part of the problem - cutting car use is part of the solution. (I’d encourage all you yuppie gym-going types to stop growing a fat arse in the car and paying for the gym, but that’s just rude and I hate stereotypes.) It’s not anti-cardriver, I recognise that the unfortunate reality for commuters from many parts of the Dublin hinterland have no viable alternative. Many do. While the bus is a great alternative to car travel, cycling or walking is; cleaner, quieter, far better for personal and public health and so much more practical!!

QUOTE: I am paying thru the nose in Tax, Tax on Fuel, NCT & then Insurance to actually use my car.

I hear a lot of complaints from car drivers that they pay through the nose for the “right” to drive their car as much as they like. Car owners are bled dry with road tax, tax on fuel, NCT and then insurance to drive their cars, along with actually purchasing their cars. I’m not sure many car owners/drivers give much consideration to the cost on society that this means of transport incurs. Car ownership is subsidised by the general populace left right and centre. Car use is heavily subsidised through tax revenue spent in hospitals to treat car crash victims, surgery, rehabilitation & physio etc., widespread respiratory illness and obesity (to name but a few). Tax payers money is disproportionately spent on roads rather than public transport (a measly 28% of the transport budget last year went on public transport) with travel time actually increasing rather than decreasing. Interestingly, spending on public transport is most frequently referred to as “subsidies” whereas road building is known as an “investment”. Curious use of language.
Our lush Irish countryside, is being paved to make way for more cars, though it is well understood internationally that traffic will always increase to capacity. Hedgerows, for example, which are a vastly underestimated ecosystem, are being destroyed at a rate 1,000km per year here in Ireland. Should we end up like Britain? And for godsake I better not say anything about wars waged in oil-rich countries to keep up with this ever-growing oil diet.

QUOTE: Tell me; will RTS be supplying people to clean up any litter caused by the day after the fact?

At any street party I’ve attended people cleaned the place entirely of their on volition (including me), unlike the kind of thing you’ll see after the masses have left Landsdowne road or Croke Park, to be fair. That’s just one of the great knock-on effects, people tend to really cherish their space a lot more.

QUOTE: in this case I believe personal politics or party affiliations are largely irrelevant because RTS appears to me to be a cultural and artistic event first and a political one second.

I would agree to a certain extent with this, though I am reticent to compartmentalise too much. There will never be a political shift away from Car-centric living until it is culturally unacceptable. RTS is also about challenging the culture of leaving the problem for some “expert” or political party to sort out, and implementing changes, however small in your own community.

People need to be asking questions like; why is everything so car-centric? Performing daily tasks in your own neighbourhood is becoming more and more difficult, small shops closing, the birth and boom of these U.S.-style enormous shopping malls such as Liffey Valley & Blanchardstown. People become so fed up with the noise and filth and traffic they do their shopping and going out all under one roof, in space that is designed on human scale, lovely clean, quiet pedestrianised areas… too bad everybody has to drive to get there!!! Not so long ago Dublin was made up of many villages where immediate needs could be satisfied within the community. Why are so many god awful developments being blanketed across Ireland with no provision made for the occupants. They must all drive!!!

MDR

A few eyes were opened outside the Dáil on Wednesday 2nd April of this year.

Er, Jim Higgins causing a ruckass in the media because he was removed from the kildare street. Public support for mass demo's against war in iraq was waining, Jim wanted to get it front and centre in the media again, so he sat in the middle of kildare street and refused to move, and then was forceably removed.

Apart from aload of people being forceably removed I can't remember any actual claims of Garda brutality. Ok can I nip this whole id thing in the bud as well, the stupid riot suits aren't equiped with them yet apartentily.

Or even better in Shannon, where people where told to do their best to get themselves arrested. Ignoring the spin from indymedia, Sinn Fein, SWP and others, I don't think the Garda have been out of line (not in a big way anyway) since RTS last year, alot of media hype and not much substance IMHO.

Not a single Garda sustained even the most minor of injuries

Do you have any press evidence to back this up ? or is this good old hearsay, because the hearsay I heard was that the senior member of the garda had a few stitches in the side of his head

Great care and consideration was given to the location of the street party for the previous 2 parties; Burgh quay has the least amount of bus traffic out of all the quays and therefore disrupted Dublin Bus as little as possible. Furthermore, unlike in many other major cities, rts events have been held on Bank holidays or Sundays, because people are sensitive to the risk of alienating people.

Well thats not entirely true, during normal protests, which Dublin sees every day, from Fathers who can't see their kids to Taxi drivers looking for re-regulation, these groups appoint a representative to liase with the Garda. Let them know where the parade is going and what (smashing up cars and who owns the car) is going to happen. Because of the semi-spontaneous nature of Reclaim-the-streets, no representative, from my information was appointed. The Garda had very little notification of what was going to happen and where, makes things a little bit difficult to organise. So great care and consideration was not given.

Emergency vehicles would have a far easier time getting where they need to be in a car free city, human beings have very good reaction skills to sirens – even crusties.

Well apparentily this group of crusties (your words not mine), had difficulty understanding a (reasonable) request from a Garda not to block the street. I amn't supporting actions taken by some members of the force in response to non-compliance with the Garda request.

Tax payers money is disproportionately spent on roads rather than public transport (a measly 28% of the transport budget last year went on public transport) with travel time actually increasing rather than decreasing. Interestingly, spending on public transport is most frequently referred to as “subsidies” whereas road building is known as an “investment”.

Won't argue with you here or against the objective of reclaim the streets, which are honorable, and should be shared by every son and daughter of Ireland.

unlike the kind of thing you’ll see after the masses have left Landsdowne road or Croke Park, to be fair

don't they get charged by the city council ?

Why are so many god awful developments being blanketed across Ireland with no provision made for the occupants

problems are much more complex than they seems, Ireland has a high rate of car ownership largily because of the ribbon development nature of Irish housing, everyone wants their little house on a boreen with .6 of a acre around it, deny an Irish person this and it will be claimed you are invading there human/civil rights.

If RTS is about changing the attidutes of the people of Dublin City or of the greater island of Ireland. They have a piss poor way of doing it IMHO, dance music and street parties are not going to sway or appeal to Irish people en mass, they have been just as badily damage by the fiasco last year amoung the broad section of Irish opinion.

If they really want to be taken seriousily, they should rethink how they are trying to comunicate with Mrs Murphy in No 23 Ireland Avenue.

DeVore

Will SWP or SWF be there?

If so how can you claim it will be "unbranded".

From my point of view, I'm a member of Corporate Ireland. But I'm a responsible member imho.

I dont drive a car. At all.

We dont spam, we dont invade your privacy with logos or hoardings.

I like the idea of RTS and I can even juggle

However I am not going to attend if SWP/SWF are going to "brand" the event as theirs or flog their membership or t-shirts or what have you. If they do... can I bring Boards T-Shirts?

I'm certainly not going to attend for them to claim it as a "massive success" for them politically (which I've seen them do before).

I think I may go to this one but I'm going to bring a digicamera and go as an amateur photo-journo... Observe and record.

You never know, if it smells clean of alternate-stealth-branding I might even juggle.

DeV

DadaKopf

problems are much more complex than they seems, Ireland has a high rate of car ownership largily because of the ribbon development nature of Irish housing, everyone wants their little house on a boreen with .6 of a acre around it, deny an Irish person this and it will be claimed you are invading there human/civil rights.

Of course you're right. RTS, though, is an urban event/movement, not a rural one (and this itself represents the urbanisation of public policy, even in rural areas). RTS highlights the structural imbalance of cities: cities emerge as strategic centres of trade/commerce in which people are expected to live. Due to the (largely unregulated) nature urban development, within the logic of neo-liberalism (I'm talking about Dublin, London, New York - global cities), the social/ecological side is generally left out of the equation. The imbalance occurs when cities are treated as commercial sites first and social systems second. Efficiency replaces quality.

The same analysis could be applied to rural areas, too, I suppose, but then space isn't as rationed there, is it?

Nonetheless, rural communities are being uprooted by urban-centric policies/economic planning so they're involved in it too. Rural communities produce commodities for urban consumption, since that's really what cities do these days. RTS is urban-oriented because it's in cities where the symptoms of uh, market logic, are most acutely felt.

So in reference to your point: Perhaps an effort could be made to bus in country folk to make a point about the effect of the 'car-centric' economy on quality of life in rural areas?

MDR

The imbalance occurs when cities are treated as commercial sites first and social systems second. Efficiency replaces quality.

Perhaps it has become charactistic of the current of adminisration and indeed the Irish people over the last decade, business before people (although its fair to say there are noteable exceptions, the minimun wage).

I believe quite deepily in the values of RTS, the city is for the people, you can hear me voice as much regularily over on the 'Esat' forum.

My attitudes have recentily changed from being extremely business friendily, to being fiercily 'Quality of Life' motivated. I firmly believe its high time we got back to putting people first. The business centric (business first) way of doing was absolutely necessary IMHO to get people back to work, no-one remembers the poverty of the eighties as well as I and I have no desire to revisit those times, but some small concessions from the bussines community won't kill them.

(if your interested, number one on my list would making every shop owner responsible for the pavement outside there business premises, how many suburban newsagents courtyards are awash with litter ?).

I see now and accept that RTS is urban movement, although I believe that they are still, even if they abandoned their confrontational style in favour of something more Ireland friendily, going to have one hell of a job convincing joe public to ditch the car. Their time might be better spent with Bus Rage or Platform 11, might represent too much work and not enough fun for them though.

cormac_byrne

However I am not going to attend if SWP/SWF are going to "brand" the event as theirs or flog their membership or t-shirts or what have you. If they do... can I bring Boards T-Shirts?

I'm certainly not going to attend for them to claim it as a "massive success" for them politically (which I've seen them do before).

I think I may go to this one but I'm going to bring a digicamera and go as an amateur photo-journo... Observe and record.

You never know, if it smells clean of alternate-stealth-branding I might even juggle.

As far as I know certain "parties" have been told off for attempting to brand the event and for selling newspapers in what is supposed to be a non-commercial space.

If people from any party / organisation want to come along and give away free newsletters / magazines / t-shirts, I don't think the RTS has a problem with that. (after all that's just free speech)

(Got some info myself from the Carrickminders at the September party)

Attempts to hijack the event for their own purposes are a different matter entirely, such behaviour is deemed to be very uncool indeed. Unfortunately there will always be some uncool people. Best we can do is firmly but politely point out the error of their ways.

So bring along lots of boards.ie t-shirts, give them to people who havn't heard about it. Let them know what a forum boards.ie is for discussing transport, environment & other issues relevant to RTS partygoers.

P.S. don't forget the juggling clubs. Maybe you could stealthily brand boards.ie onto them ;-)

*** RTS we're not a party - we're having one ***

DeVore

I'd love to bring free Boards.ie t-shirts but I'm UTTERLY STONKINGLY broke.

I would never try and brand such an event either overtly or on the sly.

I just dont want to be a poster boy for the SWP/F who get RIGHT up my hooter with their bandwagonning.

DeV.

cormac_byrne

Originally posted by DeVore
... I'm UTTERLY STONKINGLY broke ...

DeV.

Well RTS is free, If you're broke and hungry keep an eye out for the 'Food not Bombs' crew, they'll feed ya (so long as you havn't invaded a foreign country and dropped tons of bombs on it!)

I suppose 'Spacecfaft' will be back again providing free theatre and of course the music, dancing, fire juggling, etc... is free for all to enjoy. Absolutely no cash required whatsoever.

P.S. Juggling clubs are very useful for keeping undesirable newsletter sellers at a safe distance :-)

*** RTS It's a free for all that's free for all ***