John Stevens' report on Ulster

bobsmith833

I'm surprised nobody has commented on this story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,938328,00.html

It seems to be the top headline on all the UK news this morning (first time it's not been Iraq for ages), as it has come up with some pretty damning conclusions concerning the role of the army and the police in Northern Ireland in the late 1980s. I wonder if any heads will roll???

PH01

Doesn't it stop short of stating that there was no political influence on the British Armys death squads?

growler

one of the key point that has come out of this is that there is a tacit admission that few if any FRU or Special Branch personnel will be charged with offensives, which isn't going to come as a surprise to anyone, another independent enquiry is likely to be a waste of money. As all parties involved have a pretty good idea of the evils done on both sides, they'll just have to move on or there is never going to be a basis for a new NI society.

good quote from an "un-named source" in the Guardian " if you get into the business of state sanctioned assassinations, you are {morally} dead"

Cork

There was a debate on this on Radio 5 last night on BBC. It was not even on the RTE news last night.

Involvement between the security forces and loyalist gangs is another low point in Northern Ireland.

Murder is Murder. But I do not think justice will be done.

Practices have got to be adapted that this type of out rage will never re-occur. What is needed is a tribuneral.

Collusuion beteen ajents of a democratic government and terrorists is such a low point in our recent history - it needs to be fully investigated.

Mighty_Mouse

It was addressed on the Last Word last night.

The lack of outcry, outrage etc is because it's nothing new. Who didn't know this information for the last 30 years.

The problem is established a full independant enquiry.

Mighty_Mouse

Sorry, I ment to finish my previous post. It's hard to give more than a skeptical nod towards these relevations. Its exactly what nationalists in the North have been saying for a long time.

The British wil NOT want this to go as far as a independant enquiry, because unlike the Bloody Sunday enquiry, the evidence goes right to the top. According to Pat Finuicanes (spell) son , dam near as far as the prime minister of the day (Mags) and has continued right up to 2 years ago (william stobys murder).

davelerave

the report is old news really .to prove a chain of command upwards from the fru to the home secretary and pm at the time
is what the finucane 's and others want to see happen,

davelerave

there'll have to be a proper enquiry anyway at some stage

Éomer of Rohan

From a strictly pragmatic point of view, there wasn't much alternative to the Special Branch working with loyalist paramilitaries, given that in a lot of cases, loyalist intelligence on IRA ops was better than MI5 or SB. I have always suspected it and it is now high time there was a public enquiry (so that I won't have to hear Pat Finucane's wife on TV and Radio harping on again.)

One important question comes out of this however, despite Mr Orde's protestations that most of the officers of the period of in question have left the force, how can the Catholic / Nationalist / Republican community (much as I hate to define them as such, given that sectarian politics disgusts me) trust the PSNI/RUC? This organisation gave tacit consent to such operations which were seriously dubious from the p.o.v. of an organisation interested in protecting the law.

Jake303

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
It was addressed on the Last Word last night.

The lack of outcry, outrage etc is because it's nothing new. Who didn't know this information for the last 30 years.

Exactly, no outrage because nobody is shocked!

There will never be a "full" inquiry, an enquiry yes but a full one! no way, as it would in all probability show that these decisions were made right at the top of the British establishment......also worth mentioning that the report does not cover RUC/Army collusion throughout the six counties!

SoulSurvivor

In the newsletter published by the I.R.N. they sent us seperate sheet with the full report on it for our inclusion in the site newsletter, it would seem people are attempting to get the news out past the unspoken ban, Journo's are showing no interest as it came through the same time as the war, preoccupation with other events has permitted the initial impact of this news to fall into damage limitation.

Strange though? one thought there would be more interest as the poster said.
June

TetsuoHashimoto

don't be surprised

numerous Mods and posters are in favour of London's stance

bloggs

Originally posted by TetsuoHashimoto
don't be surprised

numerous Mods and posters are in favour of London's stance

What do you mean? That people here would support the use of state terrorism? :eek:

bonkey

Wow....

pulling up a 4 month old thread just to add a disparaging comment about unnamed users of this system.

And I'm just sure you've a good reason...

jc

Johnny 5

This board does have a reputation to be pro-Loyalist.

If the Prime Minister himself came out and told off an MI5 plot to kill John Hume, they'd still claim nothing was going on.

Collins would be turning in his grave at your treatment of your fellow nationals.

sceptre

Originally posted by Johnny 5
This board does have a reputation to be pro-Loyalist.

Where does it have this reputation then?

gandalf

Closing this thread as its really a fossil from the past. I wonder is Johnny 5 our old "friend" from Galway??

Gandalf.