First Time Drivers 30+ Age Discrimination

Supercell

Am a die hard biker , but was curious as to what i would be charged as a first time car drive on a provisional (car).

A friend of mine used to work in XXX insurance and said because i'm over 30 and never driven a car i wouldn't be able to get a quote. (apparently the reasoning is your over 30, you must be a jailbird or a alcoholic never to have driven a car!!)

Thought this seems like a tall tale (seems like crazy logic), but sure enough every online site i've tried to get a quote car insurance give me a refused or call some number for further advise.

Whats the deal??? , I'm not a criminal and not an alcoholic ..but never could afford to drive a car until now, but yet i'm seeming branded with an undesirable tag? , what gives??, this seems extremely unfair.

I'm 32 years old, am not going to go nuts on the roads (bike riding has installed a very strong sense of whats safe and not) , but it seems its impossible for the first time driver over 30?

Can i ever learn how to drive a car if i wish to do so, or is this discriminated against here???

Spunog UIE

Age Discrimination

ha ha, go ring up and see what they quote you.

Try being a young male driver under 22!!!


Online things usually only give ya a quote if you've a full licence or some many years no claims etc'

Quote for NSR125 a year ago 4000 cost of bike under 1000

Paying 3000 with a tracking system for my 1L car the cost of the tracking 1200, cost of car over 1200.

Wanted to take test after a 2weeks of driving and had applied. Month later, oh by the way everyone else we will be clamping down on provesional drivers etc, everyone sends it in so now i'm waiting 5months for my ****ing test. Reason i wanted to take the test was to get an instant reduction/payback on the cost of my insurance, i would have saved at least 800 if this hadn't happened, but oh no, my years insurance nearly up and had to do it all on a provessional ffs.

Watched that UK's worst drivers where they all had full licences and one girl was bitching about how she had to take the test 8 times. How long did that take?! 7months, now if she were in ireland it would take around 4years.

Crappy sucky country.

I won't even start on the tax and the roads i drive on half the time are like riverbeds, no exaggeration .

Alo.

mike65

Sounds like a job for the Ombudsperson or the Irish Insurance Federation, keep phoning and think lateraly.
eg can you get on a policy as a named driver, of your wife/sister/brother/whoever....

Mike.

Supercell

Originally posted by Gideon
Age Discrimination

ha ha, go ring up and see what they quote you.

Try being a young male driver under 22!!!

Perhaps you didn't read my post...you got a quote...i was refused flat out ...yes you were quoted a huge price..but fact is you at least got a quote.....

My point is that just because i'm over 30 years old it seems that its inconcevable that i might be a new car driver ...

Supercell

Originally posted by mike65
Sounds like a job for the Ombudsperson or the Irish Insurance Federation, keep phoning and think lateraly.
eg can you get on a policy as a named driver, of your wife/sister/brother/whoever....

Mike.

yes, am thinking along the same lines, frankly it seems to me to be completely unacceptable that new over 30's cannot get insured..i dont want to have named drivers , i dont want my parents to have me on their policy, i'm a grown man and damnit would like to be treated as such.

Supercell

Wondering if anyone reading this has personal experience with this, and if so , have you any recomendations?

Cannot believe that at 32 i'm already in the "too old" bracket (

RicardoSmith

I thought by law they have to give you a quote. It could be 10k but you'll get a quote. They'll charge you a fortune for any reason, too old, too young, its and old car, its a new car, its a popular car (ie 1.0) its a fast car (i.e 1.4) its a honda, its a fiat etc. The list is endless.

Incidentally I know people who have got insurance quotes and actual insurance, for the first time and who are over 30+. One has a full licence the other hasn't. So basically your friend is talking BS.

If you have a clean licence on the bike with no claims, convictions etc, I'd say you'll get a quote in the region of 2-4k. Aim for car thats pretty boring and has a small engine, like a yaris or a micra and it will be a lot easier to get a quote. The driving licence isn't rrocket science so just apply for the test and when you get that it will make your life a lot easier. The experience you have from riding the bike should make it a lot easier to pass.

Mac daddy

I'm 22 provisional licence because i have to wait 6 months to do my test, and have a 94 honda civic 1.6 and the insurance on this is 5500 euro's a year. :mad:

Imposter

Just to showed how fücked up Ireland is I moved to Austria just over a year ago. I found a job and then decided I needed a car.
I had to go to a driving school, which cost quite a bit but in about 2 months I had a full EU licence. Then I bought a 1.6l car and I pay about 1200€ for tax AND insurance in the year. I was 24. Admittedly the insurance is 3rd party, but fully comp would only be about 2k.

Add to that the advantage that when I drive the car my average speed is faster than what's possible on a bicycle, like it is in Dublin!

In my opinion the government needs to step in and provide insurance to drivers in Ireland. Ok claims and costs are very high but the insurance companies, as mentioned here, use any and every excuse to quote a ridiculous premium. Let the insurance companies whinge if the government does this but it's not like they have anyone else to blame!

And do away with provisional licences. It's the only country that I know that you can fail a test and then drive home on your own!

ando

I heard that a couple of years ago, if you were old and were trying to get life insurance, the insurance companies would not touch you with a stick because of your age. I think a new law came in to abolish age discrimination to the elderly and now insurance companies have to by law to give insurance (not sure exactly, but you know what I mean)

Cant there be something like this be brought in for car insurance? 21, 1.4, over 2 yrs no claims.. €4609 tpF&T

Silent Bob

Originally posted by ando
I heard that a couple of years ago, if you were old and were trying to get life insurance, the insurance companies would not touch you with a stick because of your age. I think a new law came in to abolish age discrimination to the elderly and now insurance companies have to by law to give insurance (not sure exactly, but you know what I mean)

Kind of true, but once you are over a certain age (I think it's 80) then the only company obliged to quote you is the one you are currently with. Net result is the company that you have shown loyalty to over the last X years decides to quote rediculous amounts, just because they can.

s10

Angry, upset, feel like the world is picking on you???
sounds like it to me .

Why dont you take it out on your car. Race motorbikes in housing estates & go crAZY BEHIND THE WHEEL like most people your age its no wonder

Longfield
im a biker nearly same age to you, wont be getting a car untill some18 year old leaves me in hospital,
but my mate got a quote no problem & moved his bikes from carol nash insurance , to ( norwich union ) must hve been ? not sure

youd be well advised to apply for your test asap & get it pushed through (normally by a company ) or some1 u know to write a letter
get alot of pretests & your quote at your age should plummet

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Mac daddy
I'm 22 provisional licence because i have to wait 6 months to do my test, and have a 94 honda civic 1.6 and the insurance on this is 5500 euro's a year. :mad:

Well all honda's are high risk, your 22 and you're on a provisional licence. You could have applied to do your licence years ago. Why choose a car thats so high risk? BTW you do know that you can rob them with a screw driver don't you? Get the biggest chain and padlock you can for the steering wheel, because otherwise it will get nicked for sure. I had a CRX for a few years until it got damaged from a failed theft attempt. When my renewal jumped to over 3k and I couldn't find anywhere willing to repair the car I sold it.

herbie747

It's just a pity there's so many di*khead boy-racers ripping around in their maxed up granny cars: Micras, Puntos, Clios, Saxos, etc.

Thats why there's so many claims- because of these sad wannabe rally drivers with caps and taches who only have little 1 litre engines getting in accidents, because they drive too fast trying to impress their 5 mates squashed in the back smoking cigarettes out the window.

RicardoSmith

I would say that I've seen as many people in bmw's, and merc's driving like lunatics, real speed demons. Also I've seen lots of mothers with kids all over their cars driving really badly. Personally I think the young male drivers are unfairly targeted, sure the're a higher risk, but the premiums are very many times higher than other road users.

When someone with 10 or more years of accident free driving experience, has to pay insurance which is many times more expensive than another person who has only one or two years driving experience theres something wrong with the system. If this is based on the fact the sex of the drivers is different. Then this has to be unfair and discriminatory.

mike65

Originally posted by herbie747


Thats why there's so many claims- because of these sad wannabe rally drivers with caps and taches who only have little 1 litre engines getting in accidents, because they drive too fast trying to impress their 5 mates squashed in the back smoking cigarettes out the window.

Funny you should mention that, last Friday I saw a car
of youngsters who were on thier way home from work
bombing off down the Tramore road (from Waterford),
sure enough they did something which could have had at least 10 people in hospital as they sought to overtake 4 cars in one go with the straight rapidly running out and a car coming towards them...they were driving a Jap import Honda Civic though which meant I should have expected stupid driving!

Mike.

herbie747

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
I would say that I've seen as many people in bmw's, and merc's driving like lunatics, real speed demons. Also I've seen lots of mothers with kids all over their cars driving really badly. Personally I think the young male drivers are unfairly targeted, sure the're a higher risk, but the premiums are very many times higher than other road users.

When someone with 10 or more years of accident free driving experience, has to pay insurance which is many times more expensive than another person who has only one or two years driving experience theres something wrong with the system. If this is based on the fact the sex of the drivers is different. Then this has to be unfair and discriminatory.

It's not discrimination. If women between 30-35 had the most accidents on the road, then they'd be paying the highest premiums. It's that simple.
It's just unfortunate that the rest of us have to fall into the same category as these sad boy-racers. If males between 17-25 didn't have the most claims, then they wouldn't be paying such high premiums. It’s not that hard to comprehend.
I am well aware that "people in bmw's, and merc's drive like lunatics", but they don't have as many accidents. They drive fast to get places fast; boy-racers drive fast to show-off to their goofy mates in the back, and show them what a good rally driver they would make. Retards.

Spunog UIE

Originally posted by Longfield
Perhaps you didn't read my post...you got a quote...i was refused flat out ...yes you were quoted a huge price..but fact is you at least got a quote.....

My point is that just because i'm over 30 years old it seems that its inconcevable that i might be a new car driver ...

yes i read your post.

you never said you actually rang up to try and get a quote???

and loads of insurers just flat out said they were not taking on anymore under 25's

the only two were Quinn Direct and Axa if i got the Sat-Tracking thing.

No online places would give me a quote and most like you said gave a number to ring for further details.

As for it sounding unfair, its the only thing that seems fair to me, in a twisted logic, ie that its only based on your driving experience and not your age, sex etc'

i know you keep saying its cos of your age but maybe its just your driving experience or lack of it in a car. If you've rang up and tried loads of other places gone in person etc' then i feel your justified if they said its cos of your age.

s10

Angry, upset, feel like the world is picking on you???
sounds like it to me .

Why dont you take it out on your car. Race motorbikes in housing estates & go crAZY BEHIND THE WHEEL like most people your age its no wonder

damn right i'm pissed off, its a disgrace. Same bike if i was say 10yrs older would be around 500euro. 8 times cheaper.

As for your other comment, its complete bull**** and is no reflection on my driving or care of my car, and its that type of crap that is creating the high insurance in this country.

i am soley responsible for everyone else that was born in the same year as me all over ireland, and yes we don't have a proper trainning/examination to say other wise so we're all be shoved into a big box of people to screw over. I bought my bike as i needed the transport badly as guess what, there was no public transport to facilate me, had to get a lift to that.

I worked hard for my bike and for my car and they are both looked after and treated and driven right.

And if you don't know that Age Discrimination takes place in insurance, what the **** have you been up to?!?!?!

Spunog UIE

Originally posted by herbie747
It's not discrimination. If women between 30-35 had the most accidents on the road, then they'd be paying the highest premiums. It's that simple.
It's just unfortunate that the rest of us have to fall into the same category as these sad boy-racers. If males between 17-25 didn't have the most claims, then they wouldn't be paying such high premiums. It’s not that hard to comprehend.
I am well aware that "people in bmw's, and merc's drive like lunatics", but they don't have as many accidents. They drive fast to get places fast; boy-racers drive fast to show-off to their goofy mates in the back, and show them what a good rally driver they would make. Retards.

if you were to follow that logic fair enough there is nothing wrong with it, but the fact is, we pay far too much for insurance. Even if your placed in a high risk group it shouldn't be as high as it is. I don't. I'm individual not a feckin group, and they are all statistics and ya know what they say about them... 73% of all...

What i'd like to see:

Proper course to do and pass pratical and not just theory.

Offical Test Taken.

First 3 years with that tracking system for speed etc'

And penalty points which we finally have.


more availability of advanced driving courses that allow you to prove your driving ability and decrease your insurance for full licenced drivers.

Everyone driver starts with the same cost of insurance regardless of age sex and then it drops per year if there are no penalty points or accidents.

all these would be very good and are totally realistic

other things that be nice but probally not happen (here)

force people to drive a motorbike/ped for a year to give them a sense of awareness seriously tho that probally increase anyones.

your first years insurance paid back in full, like the esure place in the UK, great idea and makes sense.

ando

.

ando

Originally posted by herbie747
It's just unfortunate that the rest of us have to fall into the same category as these sad boy-racers.

boy-racers drive fast to show-off to their goofy mates in the back. Retards.

herbie, please .....


From another thread:

Originally posted by herbie747
I got 2 points for speeding about 2 weeks after the system came into effect.

I was doing 55 in a 30 zone.

It's ok for you to speed then ????

RicardoSmith

I don't think the statistic bear out the facts that that male drives cause 3 to 4 times as many accidents as female drivers. Which is roughly how much more they pay. Those statistics are all twisted since there are far more male drivers actually driving than any other group. Especially since the majority of people who drive for a living or as part of their work are male. So they are going to have more accidents on this basis alone.

Theres also the other facts to consider that the insurance companies claim that they are loosing money on insurance. Which is true. but no one is in business to lose money. So the way that they make money is by investing the money they take in. No body makes money on insurance alone.

The problem is when their investments go bad, or the market is poor then they really lose money, not from payouts from insurance which have increased but not massively. But obviously if they can't make money on their investments, they can't support the insurance side loosing money any more. Even though it was ok when they made money on investments.

The other side to this is that up to the point when they started losing money on their investments, about 2-3 years ago. For the previous 10 yrs or so the insurance companies as a group made so mad percentage, something like 400% more in profits than the whole of the UK market. Thats 4 million vs 60 million people.

I'm sorry but thats the reason male drivers pay more, its because its a convient way to justify the massive increase we pay year after year. Sure male drivers are an increase risk, but not by the amount that the premiums would suggest.

If the insurance companies wanted to improve things by reducing accidents, then they would put together schemes to improve the quality of driving and a proper rating system for cars. But they don't because if they did that then they couldn't justify the high premiums.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by ando
herbie, please .....

From another thread:

It's ok for you to speed then ????

Since the road markings, and speed limits are farcial in this country, its very easy to get caught out and think you are in a 60 when in fact you are in a 30. Having an accident or the odd lapse is understandable. But its the people who drive illegally on provisional licences, without licences and insurance, or who have continous accidents, convictions and speeding fans that are the real problem. Not to mention the drink driving and the lack of policing of the roads in general. Then you have to look at the state of our roads and the pitiful state of our signs, I mean they're a joke the world over. They are the real issues that cause accidents.

But then you have to ask, have any of you brought these issues to your politicians attention?

herbie747

Originally posted by ando
herbie, please .....


From another thread:




It's ok for you to speed then ????

EVERYONE speeds. I've never had an accident. And if I drive fast, I'm careful.
Boy-racers drive dangerous- thats the difference: they show-off, they don't check their mirrors, they steer erratic and they think they are rally drivers.

They're the ones that have most of the accidents, and because I fall into the same age bracket as them (24), my insurance is high, even though I have a 5 years no-claims-bonus.
This is my point: boy-racers have the most ACCIDENTS. We both know that EVERYONE speeds, and where I got caught speeding was on a dual carraigeway, with no traffic around, doing 55mph on a wide main road that should be at least a 40mph zone.
Boy-racers drive dangerously fast through housing estates, narrow roads, around corners, moving off, they accelerate through amber lights, and they drive drunk and stoned- and thats where the accidents happen (and if they drive into a pole on a main road, its usually because they are showing off how fast they can go, but their crappy little just can't handle the pressure- for some reason they think that stickers and alloys make their car handle better...ha).

On another note, they look stupid when they do it too, since they drive maxed up cars that are made for grannies to drive to the supermarket in.

I'm not saying they cause ALL of the accidents, but in the male 17-24 age group, it doesn't help our premiums getting lumped in with these gobsh*tes who the majority of don't even have full licences.


OFF-TOPIC:
Just a small question that always made me curious (in case anyone knows the answer): we all know that gay men are stereotyped as having moustaches, yeah? Why do some boy-racers want to have little bum-fluff moustaches too? Surely they would want to distance themselves from the public perception that they're gay, since most of them are homophobic and call each other "****" every 2 mins!

ando

Originally posted by herbie747
if I drive fast, I'm careful

thats utter bollox herbie, your the one thinking your a rally driver now

and they drive drunk and stoned

The majority of drink drive incidents in Ireland involve men aged 40+, I think its been proven iswell

On another note, they look stupid when they do it too, since they drive maxed up cars that are made for grannies to drive to the supermarket in.

I drive a modded car, have over 2 yrs driving with no claims, dont drink, dont take drugs but your still putting me in the same class as scumbags with their "ma's" corsa. I modify my car as a hobby, to make it unique and if you have a problem with that, then you know where you can go. Sure there is some tosser's speeding and doing stupid things, I know, but just because I'm young and drive a modded car does'nt give you the right to slaim and accuse me

herbie747

Originally posted by ando
thats utter bollox herbie, your the one thinking your a rally driver now




The majority of drink drive incidents in Ireland involve men aged 40+, I think its been proven iswell




I drive a modded car, have over 2 yrs driving with no claims, dont drink, dont take drugs but your still putting me in the same class as scumbags with their "ma's" corsa. I modify my car as a hobby, to make it unique and if you have a problem with that, then you know where you can go. Sure there is some tosser's speeding and doing stupid things, I know, but just because I'm young and drive a modded car does'nt give you the right to slaim and accuse me

Well then you should be p*ssed at the rest of the boy-racers too for giving you a bad name. Don't take it out on me. I bet you drive fast too.
It hardly makes me a boy-racer if I exceed the speed limit now and again. In fact, I really doubt I'd be let into the little boy-racer club with those qualifications: they'd laugh at me- "Wheres your hole in your bonnet", "You have no stickers!", "Why haven't you got chrome car mats?", "There's no ball on top of your aerial!", "Your reg doesn't have a wacky font".
Then I'd say: "Yeah, but I do exceed the speed limit the odd time!".
Somehow I don't think that would qualify me as a boy-racer. Do you?

RicardoSmith

Besides the boy racers are only a tiny proportion of the driving population. So I don't see who they could cause most accidents.

herbie747

I'm talking about the male 17-24 age group. Of course boy-racers only make up a tiny percentage of the population (thank god), but who, in that age group, causes more accidents? I can't think of any other group of male drivers that go around thinking they're mad yokes, and drive like idiots. Sure, there's individuals, but these sad kids actually organise events....

mike65

I wonder do the modders declare thay have a souped up car to thier insurers...?

Mike.

seamus

Originally posted by mike65
I wonder do the modders declare thay have a souped up car to thier insurers...?

Mike.

Surely the don't have to? Unless the mods change the way the car drives (port grinding, wider alloys, etc) or increases the value (for those fully comp) then I don't see any reason why the insurance company should be informed.

herbie - I don't think anyone disagrees that young male drivers present a large risk. The problem is that all young drivers get tarred with one big risk brush. NCBs, full licences, small cars all make very little difference to the overall cost of a premium. The biggest drop in insurance costs for young drivers is when they turn 25. Ridiculous. Young drivers should be rewarded for safe driving, instead of being penalised simply because they are young.

You can argue till you're blue in the face about statistics and whatnot, but the fact of the matter remains - A 21 year old with a clean record and 3 years NCB can still expect to pay at least twice as much for their insurance as a 40 year old with previous drink driving convictions. Pure discrimination.

herbie747

I'm not standing up for insurance companies by any means. I'm just saying that we pay the most because we are in he highest risk category. i.e. Our age group and sex have the most claims. Do they make us pay for it? Damn right. It's ridiclulous, but we can't turn around and tell them that e.g. females between 30-37 have the most claims, and why are our premiums so high?
My point is that: we ARE the highest risk, and all those boy-racers crashing their glorified roller skates doesn't help our statistics.
Of course the insurance companies are taking the p*ss, but theres nothing we can do about it except blame the fu*kers who are actually making the claims and pushing our premiums up.