If its not "Eire" why does it say so on the stamps?

regi

Originally posted by seamus
The only two ways I've seen digs taken by rabid Uniionists is by calling the Republic 'The Free State', or by referring to the entire area as 'The British Isles'. The latter really annoys me..... [/B]

Free state is definately an offensive term, but I've often heard use of the phase 'The British Isles' in a way that wasn't intended to cause offence, but purely as a geographic term to describe 'The archipelago off the west coast of continental Europe'. It can cause offence tho, so I generally use the phrase with caution over here

Victor

Originally posted by Regi
but I've often heard use of the phase 'The British Isles' in a way that wasn't intended to cause offence, but purely as a geographic term to describe 'The archipelago off the west coast of continental Europe'. It can cause offence tho, so I generally use the phrase with caution over here

The republican version is "The Celtic Isles"

Trebor

i believe that it should be Eire as it is a step in the right direction towards the resuurection of the irish lanuage as the more it is used in daly life the sooner it will become the more used lanuage.

ballooba

Originally posted by Hobart
For instance I have yet to hear an English, Scotish, Welsh or Irish man refer to France as Francais

Thats because the french for France is France. .

bonkey

Originally posted by ballooba
Thats because the french for France is France. .

Funnily enough, I do hear a lot of people talk about Italia and Espagna.

Personally, I think it should be "Ireland" when referring to it in the English language.

But maybe thats cause I get annoyed at people who I know from an Irish-speaking background who still insist on calling me "Seán" even when we speak in English.

As for what foreigners call us....."Southern Ireland" is the one that annoys me. The rest I can understand and/or ignore...mostly.

jc

Victor

Originally posted by bonkey
Funnily enough, I do hear a lot of people talk about Italia and Espagna.

Do you mean in Switzerland or in Ireland? I would say the "Giro d'Italia", not the "Tour of Italy", but wouln't use "Italia" in normal speech.

Originally posted by bonkey
But maybe thats cause I get annoyed at people who I know from an Irish-speaking background who still insist on calling me "Seán" even when we speak in English.

I take it you are "John" (as in JC) I think the way some teachers "Gaelicise" English names is absurd and offensive, your name is your name.

Originally posted by bonkey
As for what foreigners call us....."Southern Ireland" is the one that annoys me. The rest I can understand and/or ignore...mostly.

Call centre worker: "Do you live in Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland?"
Me: "No, Eastern Ireland."

Kappar

Originally posted by Lennoxschips
If it was up to me, I'd change the consitution to make Éire the name used in both the English and Irish language. It's the true name of the country after all!

In the first draft of the constitution this was the case then when being debated in the Dáil however a Mr. Desmond Fitzgerlad argued something about there being no such word in English and how the people of Éire become 'muinntear na hÉireann' in Irish because nouns decline in Irish so Éire becomes Éireann and stays Éire in english this was craxy he said.

There was also arguing about the term leaving out the six counties out by using the term so dev changed the english in someplaces changing 'The people of Éire' to 'the people' and 'the president shall not leave Éire...' to the president shall not leave the state...'

Also another interesting thing to note is this when dev went to visit lloyd george in Londen

Records note an exchange between Lloyd George and de Valera where de Valera handed George a document in Irish then in English the document was headed with the words “Saorstat Eireann” George asked “what does Saorstat mean?” to which de Valera replied “Free State” “Yes, but in Irish does it mean Republic” George asked de Valera while de Valera discussed this with his colleague George remarked that “the Celts were never republicans so would have no native word”.

TomF

In 1974 I went over to Bristol, England for a job interview and the biggie who I spoke with used "Eire" in speaking of Ireland. I remember that I mentally narrowed my eyes at this (not the same as narrowing my mind at this) because I wasn't too sure what he was implying. I didn't get the job, so it didn't turn-out to be a big problem. One of his underlings was a very nasty type, and I was told later that he was absolutely convinced of the superiority of the English over all other peoples of the world, so it is just as well I didn't get the job.

I have also had people in England taking credit card orders from me over the telephone ask "Is that northern Ireland or southern Ireland", and I always say "It's the Republic" although when I think it over later, it is really not such a bad thing to say "southern or northern?" when speaking of Ireland because that implies that it is a natural whole, not a divided island.

On the issue of putting Eire on the stamps, maybe the united Ireland will see an arrangement like Canada's currency which is in French and English. I'm not sure about the stamps. Maybe they just carry the name Canada because there is no need for "Governor-General/Gouveneur-general" under signatures, etc. as there is for the currency.

Finally, there is or was a monthly journal put out by the Irish American Cultural Institute, founded by a fine man named Eoin McKiernan, and the name of the journal was Eire-Ireland. That seems to work.

daveirl

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bonkey

Originally posted by TomF
it is really not such a bad thing to say "southern or northern?" when speaking of Ireland because that implies that it is a natural whole, not a divided island

Except that it is a divided island, and nations are not typically referred to by their geographical location.

jc

Jake303

Originally posted by Elmo
The UK = Britain and Northern Ireland.

When you refer to Britain do you refer to Northern Ireland as well because if you do your wrong as Britain is not Northern Ireland.

I refuse to call Britain, Great Britain. As I don't think any country is all that great especial a country that puts the word great in front of its own country.

When I refer to NI usually refer to it as the six counties or the occupied six counties.
I refer to Britain as Britain meaning Scotland, England and Wales

mike65

Originally posted by Jake303
When I refer to NI usually refer to it as the six counties or the occupied six counties.

Ho hum, I thought we were all supposed to be getting beyond that sort of language round here.

Mike.

Jake303

Originally posted by mike65
Ho hum, I thought we were all supposed to be getting beyond that sort of language round here.

Mike.

I accept fully that the people of Eire voted for the good friday aggrement and if that be the will of the people then fair enough.
But dont kid yourself for a minute that everybody in Eire suddenly thinks that NI is a legitimate state (?) entity (?) or whatever you wanna call it.

Elmo

Elmo, I absolutely agree with Typedef, and I also feel that you might be best served by actually meeting/talking to some english people. Your ignorance hurts me

I appologise for hurting you. And prehaps I mean the government and policital rulers of England and not the people that they serve.
I have often read the british press and it seems Ignorant to me when it comes to Ireland, at times.(I won't get an appology for that) I would hope the press doesn't represent a people anyway.

In realation to the word republic I think it comes from french.

Also Great Britian because of is size, is just as big headed. Especially as its only a small Island of the coast of Really Big France and Huge Germany.

The British Isle may be factual but only because the british ruled over it for 800 years. The Celtic Isles is also factual as three of the countries are celtic, as are parts of England.

bonkey

Originally posted by Jake303
But dont kid yourself for a minute that everybody in Eire suddenly thinks that NI is a legitimate state (?) entity (?) or whatever you wanna call it.

I'm curious as to what you call the USA.

Is it "those occpupied native american lands", "the native american lands", or do you reserve this standard of legitimisation just for Ireland?

NI is a legitimate state, recognised not only by both the RoI and British governments, but by the EU, the UN, and every other relevant international body.

The only way that NI is not a legitimate state is if you use the term "legitimate" not to mean "in accordance with law" but rather "what I want".

jc

pickarooney

Originally posted by TomF


On the issue of putting Eire on the stamps, maybe the united Ireland will see an arrangement like Canada's currency which is in French and English. I'm not sure about the stamps. Maybe they just carry the name Canada because there is no need for "Governor-General/Gouveneur-general" under signatures, etc. as there is for the currency.

Canada being Canada in French, there's not much room for confusion.

For what it's worth, the Republic of Ireland is often referred to as Eire in French, and is usually used on scoreboards at (association) football matches.

And that Great Britain thing is a translation of Grande Bretagne, i.e. Big Britain/Brittany, to distinguish it from Brittany/Bretagne in France.

Consider the Irish name for Wales, an Bhreatain Bheag - little Britain. Do Welsh people get offended by this?

Victor

Originally posted by Elmo
In realation to the word republic I think it comes from french.

I think it is actually Latin http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=republic

Originally posted by Elmo
Also Great Britian because of is size, is just as big headed. Especially as its only a small Island of the coast of Really Big France and Huge Germany.

Isn't France much bigger than Germany

Originally posted by pickarooney
And that Great Britain thing is a translation of Grande Bretagne, i.e. Big Britain/Brittany, to distinguish it from Brittany/Bretagne in France. Consider the Irish name for Wales, an Bhreatain Bheag - little Britain. Do Welsh people get offended by this?

The present usage of Great Britain stems from the Act of Union 1707(?), when Scotland joined Britain. Prior to that Britain was used to refer to England and Wales. Teh previous English-Welsh agreement that formed that union included a concession to Wales that the name "Britain" (descended from the Welsh, originally from the Latin "Brittania") would apply to the Kindom.

Jake303

Originally posted by bonkey
I'm curious as to what you call the USA.

Is it "those occpupied native american lands", "the native american lands", or do you reserve this standard of legitimisation just for Ireland?

NI is a legitimate state, recognised not only by both the RoI and British governments, but by the EU, the UN, and every other relevant international body.

The only way that NI is not a legitimate state is if you use the term "legitimate" not to mean "in accordance with law" but rather "what I want".

jc

Havnt really given the US much thought up untill now to be honest.

To be blunt with ye I really dont give a toss what the UN, EU, or ROI for that matter recognise.

daveirl

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bonkey

Originally posted by Jake303
To be blunt with ye I really dont give a toss what the UN, EU, or ROI for that matter recognise.

Thats alright, because they and most of the rest of the world dont really give a toss what you recognise either.

They've got more weight behind their opinion too, so I'd be inclined to believe that their opinions will carry the day.

jc

Elmo

It is funny you should talk about score boards at matches and stuff. and that some people have a problem with the use of The Republic Of Ireland.

But don't we support a soccer team called the republic of Ireland. and yet we call our Rubgy, Criket(I'm sure we have one), Hockey and International Rules teams, Ireland.

So which should we call Eire??

Also do you support Northern Ireland when they play?

And what would happen if Northern Ireland And Eire/ROI/Ireland end up in the final of the world cup, what then? (Like it would happen).

mike65

Calling the footie team the Republic of Ireland is just long-winded...as for who to support in the bizarre
occurance of the meeting between Norn Iron and The Repuberlic thats a no-brainer if you live in the ROI, and is decided by your religion if you live in NI.

Mike.

daveirl

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Elmo

We call them Ireland because players come from the whole Island but there are two football associations so hence two different names.

Well done. The british call us Eire because they are refering to The Republic of Ireland/The 26 Counties/The Freestate etc.

But when we talk about Football team that come from all over Ireland then we refer to it as Ireland as do the british. Why?

Since we refer to The Whole Island Of Ireland As Eire and so that we don't upset the Unionist with in these teams (Unlikely that their are very many unionist on the International rules)

Until such time as we become a unite Ireland then they should call us Ireland. (The british media are not doing it to show that we are a seprate state in their eyes, they do it just to point out the difference between north and south)

Have you ever heard of The USA, or any other part of the english speaking world refer to us as Eire.

Eire and Ireland IMO refers to the 32 counties. If you wish to differencate between Nothern Ireland and The Republic Of Ireland, then do so by using the full irish or no irish at all. Tuisceart Na Eireann agus Pobulact Na Eireann(sp?).

SkepticOne

In Britain, 'Eire' tends to refer to the bit they don't occupy.

Elmo

In Britain, 'Eire' tends to refer to the bit they don't occupy.

Well they are wrong aren't they.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Elmo
Well they are wrong aren't they.

Well, they are correct insofar as if one Brit talks to another Brit and uses the word 'Eire' they mean the same thing - the non-occupied 26 counties. They are correct within their own language community.

Elmo

Well, they are correct insofar as if one Brit talks to another Brit and uses the word 'Eire' they mean the same thing - the non-occupied 26 counties. They are correct within their own language community.

It's nice the way the British think of other when the talk about them isn't it. I suppose they go around saying An Doire, as well. May be Not.

rubadub

Originally posted by Elmo

Have you ever heard of The USA, or any other part of the english speaking world refer to us as Eire.

yes i have heard americans call it Eire, but rarely. i have seen americans (from the USA), not upset but curious about people calling them americans, and not calling canadians or brazilians americans too since they are all from the continent america like how people call people Asians. they admit the fact is probably that the USA is the only country there with america in the name. i wonder if the brits who use eire use the welsh for wales on their letters too. my friend got stuff delivered from the USA and it was sent to northern ireland even though he chose ireland from their website order page. i think so many brits see eire used by their fellow brits that they think its "the done thing" and may fear that using "ireland" is offensive as in "we now feel guilty for raping and pillaging so many lands and dont want to refer to your land in the language of the oppressor". as somebody pointed out before for germany, here they should really put the intial part of the address in irish and the country as ireland to help both post offices (i know! it wont help most people in an post but you see my point)

as for "great" britain i have heard it referred to as 5hite britain, a term i may use on my next letter

Trebor

Originally posted by Elmo
Have you ever heard of The USA, or any other part of the english speaking world refer to us as Eire

no the "yanks" call it the Emerald Isle, where did this come from?