If its not "Eire" why does it say so on the stamps?

Elmo

We're a very Green Country => Emerald Isle.

Shane

Yeah, MTV always use Eire now! I use Eire all the time and also I only refer to the 6 counties as the North, can never bring myself to saying Northern Ireland and cringe when I hear it.

Shane

I accept fully that the people of Eire voted for the good friday aggrement and if that be the will of the people then fair enough.

Finally somebody sees sense!

Shane

Sorry,

quote in full:I accept fully that the people of Eire voted for the good friday aggrement and if that be the will of the people then fair enough.
But dont kid yourself for a minute that everybody in Eire suddenly thinks that NI is a legitimate state (?) entity (?) or whatever you wanna call it.

Jake303

Originally posted by bonkey
Thats alright, because they and most of the rest of the world dont really give a toss what you recognise either.

They've got more weight behind their opinion too, so I'd be inclined to believe that their opinions will carry the day.

jc

Thats it mate, safety in numbers!
:rolleyes:

Where did I state that I was trying to force my opinions on anybody else?

Jake303

Originally posted by daveirl
So all the borders of the world should be drawn by you and you alone, ignoring the majority will of the international community ?

Where did I suggest this?

QBall

Originally posted by daveirl
Why it's factually correct? Should Canadians get annoyed when the area is refered to as North America?

I think that the objection comes from the fact that the phrase "British Isles" implies political boundaries while "North America" implies geographical boundaries.

British Isles == Islands which are British

Whether the archipelago off the North Western part of Europe is technically the British Isles or not is a matter for geographers. If it is, it is factually incorrect as the island which I'm posting from is not British (or not entirely British, depending on your political viewpoint).

When referring to these islands as a whole I try to use the phrase "the UK and Ireland" which is correct as far as I can see it as I use the correct English (language!) name of both countries.

To use the phrase "Celtic Isles" is a little silly:
1) There are more than just Celts on these islands. There are also descendants of Romans, Angles, Jutes, Saxons and Normans not to mention those more recently arrived from other parts of Europe and from Africa, Asia etc.
2) It's a phrase probably coined purely for the purpose of irritating those who insist that these islands are the British Isles

Back on topic though:

Eire -> Irish
Ireland -> English
Irlande -> French
etc.

Use the correct name for the language you are speaking.

I've had a discussion on this topic with a friend who is English. He was unclear about what was correct, Eire or Ireland, once I told him that Eire is Irish for Ireland he saw the sense in him only using Ireland.

I believe that most British people don't know that Eire is Ireland in Irish and most of them are probably just making their best effort to call this country by its proper name.

Elmo

Just watching "Richest: Young Brits", Lunch time TV on Sky One, nice to see them put Samantha Mumba Up their with the rest of her Richest Counter parts on the British Isles. How come westlife did not make it in????

Victor

Originally posted by Elmo
Just watching "Richest: Young Brits", Lunch time TV on Sky One, nice to see them put Samantha Mumba Up their with the rest of her Richest Counter parts on the British Isles. How come westlife did not make it in????

Well obviously they are past their best before dates :rolleyes:

Dampsquid

If the UK is Great Britain and Northern Ireland, How come people in the north refer to themselves as british?

Victor

Originally posted by Dampsquid
If the UK is Great Britain and Northern Ireland, How come people in the north refer to themselves as british?

How come people in Boston (in far away America) call themselves Irish? Peopel call themselves what they want.

bonkey

And yet the Scots and the Welsh don't (refer th themselves as British).

Go figure.

jc

<edited for clarity>

Elmo

If the UK is Great Britain and Northern Ireland, How come people in the north refer to themselves as british?

This always bothered me, too.

How come people in Boston (in far away America) call themselves Irish? Peopel call themselves what they want.

All american do this they just want to have some kind of culture and are afraid to embrass the Native American Culture.

And yet the Scots and the Welsh don't (refer th themselves as British).

But you see they are British, but first the are Welsh and Scotish, the northern Unions cannot call them self british as they are not british but are citizens of the UK. The Irish were never British, only citizens of the UK. The English call themself English before British too you know.

Gordon

Originally posted by bonkey
And yet the Scots and the Welsh don't (refer th themselves as British).

I'm most definately Scottish, not British.

Elmo

I'm most definately Scottish, not British.

Do you agree with Sean Connery's call for a Free Scotland? Of the topic Really. But the topic has kinda of dissappeared.

Jake303

Originally posted by Elmo
Do you agree with Sean Connery's call for a Free Scotland? Of the topic Really. But the topic has kinda of dissappeared.

As has Sean Connerys support for the idea if reports are true!

I think support for the SNP dropped in todays elections also (as did that of labour)

Gordon

Yeah, i'd love Scotland to be its own entity. Scotland was close to becoming this at one stage afair, in the 60's was it? and what happened - oil in the north sea was found - oh look Scotland owns this land what a surprise the UK faught against Scotland becoming seperate.

I don't know if it would fare well but to be honest Scotland has some far better systems than UK - health, education, legal to name three. I just don't know how it would be handled by the new "government" that would come into power. As far as I hear - this new power is not conducive to the better values of scottish history.

I am simply patriotic so my judgement is tainted however.

Asuka

Just one small point taken directly from history class -
The correct name in the constitution is the Republic of Ireland and is not Éire. If you read otherwise, you're reading a dated copy of the constitution. The name was changed from the Irish Free State to Éire in the constiution of 1937, and renamed again in the Republic of Ireland act in 1949. IIRC. I dont have my old history book to hand

Edit: Baka baka, didnt see the second page Im not going to bother reading it either, if ive lost the plot this is why

A

Victor

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND

Article 4 The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

Republic of Ireland Act, 1948

THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND ACT, 1948 SECTION 2 - 1948 22 2

The Republic of Ireland. 2.—It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland.

It specified the "description" not the "name".

How come people in Boston (in far away America) call themselves Irish? Peopel call themselves what they want.

Very true.

And yet the Scots and the Welsh don't (refer th themselves as British).

Its a matter of pride. They refer themselves as such because they're proud of their original heritage. In both scotland and wales, the traditions that were abt before colonisation, are still very prominent. This gives them a pride in not being british.

The Irish were never British, only citizens of the UK.

many irish people considered themselves to be british. Not irish, while the british occupied this country. Its just a matter of personal preference.

Gearoid

The 26 counties I think should be refered to as Poblacht na hÉireann, and the North as Tuaisceart na hÉireann or sécountaedepending on your politics. I believe we should also go back to the Native placenames in the Irish language as the Irish versions convey the true meaning of the place and it would strengthen Irish culture.
As for calling these Islands the Celtic Isles why not? all of the countries in the "British Isles" (except England) are Celtic, anyway "Britain is only one Island in the collection of Islands so I dont see why we have to tied down to a name which is so geographically and politically misleading, Celtic Isles is fine.
Slán go fóill.

The 26 counties I think should be refered to as Poblacht na hÉireann, and the North as Tuaisceart na hÉireann or sécountaedepending on your politics. I believe we should also go back to the Native placenames in the Irish language as the Irish versions convey the true meaning of the place and it would strengthen Irish culture.

I take it you haven't seen the thread on these boards where the majority said that irish had very little use in modern ireland? People have enough trouble saying their own names in irish, they simply won't refer to countries/segments in irish. How many ordinary people do you know that use the names of irish counties in their original language? I know very few, and i grew up in a completely irish speaking household.

QBall

Originally posted by Gearoid
As for calling these Islands the Celtic Isles why not? all of the countries in the "British Isles" (except England) are Celtic...

No they're not. See my previous post.

Note that Cornwall is originally a Celtic area (Cornish is a Celtic language similar to Welsh & Breton) so going by your reasoning, all the islands are Celtic.

You may like to think of this island as being Celtic, but really our culture has had many more influences from non-Celtic sources. How much of true Celtic culture has actually survived?

If you wanted to be silly about it you could call these islands the Celtic-Roman-Norman-Anglo-Saxon islands, but that still wouldn't cover it entirely, as you'd have to account for the influx of people from the countries formerly in the British Empire.

As far as I'm concerned these islands have no one useful short(ish) name that can be legitimately applied to them.

As for calling everything by their Irish names, frankly that's just plain silly. Use the Irish names when you're speaking Irish, use the English names when you're speaking English. (again see my previous post)

Éomer of Rohan

And don't forget that even within 'Celt' there are many variants;
Dal Riata
Erdani
Nagnatae
Auteini
Gangani
Brigantes
Vellabori
Iverni.....and those are justthe Irish ones.

The rest of the British Isles, north to South,
Cornavii
Decantae
Caledonii
Taexali
Picts
Damnonii
Selgovae
Novantae
Voltadini
Brigantes
Parisi
Deceangli
Coritani
Ordovices
Cornovii (not misspelt lol)
Catuvellauni
Demetae
Silures
Iceni
Belgae
Dobunni
Artebates
Cantiaci
Durotriges
Cantiaci

And as you can see, many of this actually picked up their names as they moved westwards across Europe.

(Source; Simon Schama "A History of Britain" vol I)

Gearoid

And don't forget that even within 'Celt' there are many variants; Dal Riata
Erdani
Nagnatae
Auteini
Gangani
Brigantes
Vellabori

Belfast life getting more boring by the day eh?!

Note that Cornwall is originally a Celtic area (Cornish is a Celtic language similar to Welsh & Breton) so going by your reasoning, all the islands are Celtic.

There are more celtic countries than not. and also there is quite a bit of this culture left look around u, the Gaeltacht is a good example. And whos to say it wont or cant come back i n strength.

As for calling everything by their Irish names, frankly that's just plain silly. Use the Irish names when you're speaking Irish, use the English names when you're speaking English. (again see my previous post)

So if u wer in a foreign country would u call a place by its name in a foreign language?

Éomer of Rohan

Belfast life getting more boring by the day eh?!

LMFAO

So if u were in a foreign country would u call a place by its name in a foreign language?

To be fair it really depends what country; in Italy or Greece and Western Turkey I call them by the native names but in France and so on, I use the English names.

QBall

Originally posted by Gearoid
There are more celtic countries than not. and also there is quite a bit of this culture left look around u, the Gaeltacht is a good example. And whos to say it wont or cant come back i n strength.

I think you may misunderstand the "Celtic" bit. The Gaeltacht is a good example of native Irish culture, but doesn't have much specifically identifiably different Celtic culture.

I'm not saying it won't come back in strength, but be realistic: Do you REALLY believe it will? Honest?

So if u wer in a foreign country would u call a place by its name in a foreign language?

If I was speaking that foreign language, yes, if I was speaking English I'd use the English version. I try to consistantly speak one language at a time, rather than flipping between two. It confuses me and tose I talk to. Some exceptions are:

Gaeltacht (because there's no sensible directly translated English word for it)
Brussels (the odd times I've spoken French in Belgium, Brussels is the Flemish version and I've never really taken to calling it Bruxelles. Besides the difference in sound in my horrendous mutilation of the French language is negligable)

Gearoid

I think you may misunderstand the "Celtic" bit. The Gaeltacht is a good example of native Irish culture, but doesn't have much specifically identifiably different Celtic culture.

I was just using an Irish example, you see the other Celtic countries have their own equivelant areas in Wales and scotland etc. Irish culture is part of a bigger Celtic culture that exists in the other celtic countries. Ever been to Scotland? You may recognise their Native language as being very similar to Irish as is their Music because Culturally Ireland and Scotland (And Isle of Man) were the same up until 2-300 years ago. The period of Anglo-Americanism that we are going through at the moment is only a split second in comparison to the 2000+ years of our native culture. And yes I do think it may come back in strength again because in my opinion the present phase of things is too commercialised to last.

bonkey

Originally posted by QBall
I think you may misunderstand the "Celtic" bit. The Gaeltacht is a good example of native Irish culture, but doesn't have much specifically identifiably different Celtic culture.

Except for the language, the music and the arts in general, maybe some national festivals, traditions, and so on and so forth, all of which are Celtic. Indeed, much of what we consider to be our "native" Irish culture is nothing of the sort...it is identifiably our native Celtic culture, which has simply evolved over time, seperate to other Celtic regions.
Conemara Irish is different to Kerry or Donegal Irish, and yet they are all identifiably "Irish". However, once you stop thinking "Irish", and start thinking "Celtic" you realise that these languages also have a massive amount in common with Breton, Scots-Gaelic, Manx, Cornish, Romansch, and others.

Indeed, I can think of very little (if anything at all) of what we might consider to be "Irish culture" which is not Celtic in origin.

jc

QBall

Originally posted by Gearoid
Irish culture is part of a bigger Celtic culture that exists in the other celtic countries.

I believe you still haven't understood what I was saying. The last time Irish culture was significantly Celtic was more than 500 years ago (and probably closer to 1000). Since then there have been many more influences, not just the present predominantly Anglo-American ones. What you consider "Celtic" is probably better described as Irish/Scottish/Welsh/Manx/etc. There is a Celtic influence, but much of Irish culture is non-Celtic. I don't see as much tribalism in today's Irish culture!

Originally posted by Gearoid
Ever been to Scotland? You may recognise their Native language as being very similar to Irish as is their Music because Culturally Ireland and Scotland (And Isle of Man) were the same up until 2-300 years ago.

And culturally speaking they still are IMHO. (At least, the Scots, Welsh and Manx that I've met and talked to)

Originally posted by Gearoid
The period of Anglo-Americanism that we are going through at the moment is only a split second in comparison to the 2000+ years of our native culture. And yes I do think it may come back in strength again because in my opinion the present phase of things is too commercialised to last.

Fair enough, believe what you wish. I believe that the world will move more and more towards one homogenous culture. For example, one of the forces that creates cultures is the lack of communication between two groups of people allowing the two cultures to evolve independantly of each other and hence developing differences. With the ability to communicate over large distances developed to the extent it is today, I believe that the ability to create differences in cultures is diminished. Hence, highly localised and reasonably small cultures like Irish culture, have to adapt to be less different in order to facilitate better communication with others.

The Irish language is only useful as a way of communicating with other Irish people whereas many more speak English and more still speak Chinese. The Irish language is no use for international trade/communication. That is why I don't se it coming back in strength.

Oh and on your choice of the phrase "native culture": At what stage did the addition of cultural influences from outside cease to be "native" and become "foreign"? Isn't that point reasonably arbitrary?