If its not "Eire" why does it say so on the stamps?

Gearoid

I believe you still haven't understood what I was saying. The last time Irish culture was significantly Celtic was more than 500 years ago (and probably closer to 1000). Since then there have been many more influences, not just the present predominantly Anglo-American ones. What you consider "Celtic" is probably better described as Irish/Scottish/Welsh/Manx/etc. There is a Celtic influence, but much of Irish culture is non-Celtic. I don't see as much tribalism in today's Irish culture!

Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Manx ARE Celtic! This is what is left of the Celtic nations! and as I've said before and as Bonkey has said. Irish culture IS Celtic culture. true they're have been outside influences but all the outside cultures that came in as we know from history "became more Irish than the Irish themselves".
There's plenty tribalism look at GAA and Irish language dialects.

The Irish language is only useful as a way of communicating with other Irish people whereas many more speak English and more still speak Chinese. The Irish language is no use for international trade/communication. That is why I don't se it coming back in strength.

Personally I think a lot of people will return to there own cultures because of this "one" culture you're on about, people like to be individual.
Slán go fóill,

bonkey

Originally posted by QBall
There is a Celtic influence, but much of Irish culture is non-Celtic.

Ahhh...so thats where you were coming from.

You have a point, but - for example - it would be true to say that a huge proportion of what you perceive as Irish Culture today is - in fact - directly come from the US and the UK.

Now...if you were to tell the average Irish person on the street that American and British cultural values define his "Irishness" moreso than the Celtic ones of our ancestry, I think you'll either find him laughing his ass off at you, or taking extreme (potentially violent) exception to the suggestion at all.

Also...just as a counter-point - aspects of "Irishness" such as our renowned friendliness, our various social mechanisms (including drink), and our quick tempers (the foightin' Oirish, begorrah) are all identifiable Celtic traits...most of which can also be found in other locales which still have a strong Celtic heritage.

jc

jc
jc

STaN

Éire refers to the 32 counties (is ireland just the english version, also meaning the 32?)
The Republic of Ireland is the description of the state.

So what are we calling the 26?

Gearoid

yes, Ireland the english version of Éire refers to the entire island, the 26 would be republic of Ireland in english.

Gael

Seeing as someone mentioned the etymology of the word Republic, I'm surprised that nobody brought up the etymology of the word Ireland, which is simply the word Éire with the English word land added on . Éire-land/Ireland

simu

I've come across the word Éire used in French the odd time, strangely enough.
Stuff like "la verte Eire" (green Ireland) in tourist brochures and even saw it used in an article on the Nice treaty in Libération (one of the main French newspapers).

They pronounce it "Air" and usually, it's used as a synonym to avoid repeating the word Irlande too much.

I presume it came into French from English but as the French have always had good relations with Ireland, it obviously has pejorative sense for them.

In fact, it seems to me that most English ppl feel baffled and maybe a bit guilty about their country's past relations with Ireland more than anything else and that most English ppl who use the word have no intent to give insult.

Victor

Are we running a double standard by using "Garda", "Dáil", "Taoiseach". Are we so insecure in our national independence that we have to use such words?

Éomer of Rohan

In fact, it seems to me that most English ppl feel baffled and maybe a bit guilty about their country's past relations with Ireland more than anything else and that most English ppl who use the word have no intent to give insult.

It seems to me that English people haven't a clue what to feel guilty for - generally I find that they haven't a baldy what goes on at present in Northern Ireland, never mind what occurred years beforehand all across Ireland. Actually I have never heard an English person use the word.

daveirl

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Sparks

Originally posted by Victor
Are we running a double standard by using "Garda", "Dáil", "Taoiseach". Are we so insecure in our national independence that we have to use such words?

Are there proper english translations of those words? I mean, proper nouns don't always have translations - siesta, rioja, gendarme, tortilla, chilli, etc, etc, etc...

Éomer of Rohan

Well, Garda Siochana is the Irish for Guardian of the Peace. As for Dail and Taoiseach, I would guess that these to are rendered from English to Irish rather than the reverse, just like Garda.

simu

I think it's cool we use Irish words like Taoiseach, Gardaí etc
Surely the use of Irish words shows confidence rather than lack thereof. It means that instead of denying the past, we acknowledge we have a distinct culture and aren't just a bland , wannabe 51st state of the USA.

It's not surprising the British use English terms instead of Irish ones, from their pt of view, we're just a tiny country of 4 million ppl and most English ppl wouldn't have a clue how to pronounce Aras an Uachtaráin and such words.

Given the case of, say a small, English-speaking African country, formerly colonised by Britain, I'd say the Irish media would also use more generic terms such as "prime minister", "elected representative" etc rather than researching pronounciation and usage of words from African languages that have been assimilated into English in that country.

It's funny how we can still get so paranoid about what the English think of us!

bonkey

Originally posted by daveirl
The point is that The British say - "The Irish Prime Minister", "The Irish Police Force"

Well how many of us refer the to foreign police forces using their foreign name when speaking in English?

Do we refer to the polizei, policia, gendarmes, and so on and so forth, or use the general descriptive rather than the title?

The same would apply for our Taoiseach as far as I am concerned. He/She is the Irish prime minister, when the term is used as a descriptive (rather than a title).

After all, how many Brits just call the Queen "the Queen", rather than using her official title.

You know...I'm all for national pride...but getting touchy over just how correct the terms are which foreigners use to describe your nation is taking it just a bit too far.

Originally posted by Eomer of Rohan
As for Dail and Taoiseach, I would guess that these to are rendered from English to Irish rather than the reverse, just like Garda.

Dont think so Dave. As far as I know, Taoiseach is quite ancient in origin (Celtic), and I seem to remember Dail being the same. I could be wrong, but I've seen the term used quite often when referring to clan leaders in Celtic Ireland, as well Dail being the councils which they held.

I've had a quick check, and I can find absolutely no references for this anywhere. I'm just working off memory on this one, so if someone has any references (pro or anti my description) I'd love to seem them.

jc

Sparks

Well how many of us refer the to foreign police forces using their foreign name when speaking in English?
Do we refer to the polizei, policia, gendarmes, and so on and so forth, or use the general descriptive rather than the title?

I always do - for a start, it's clearer. Gendarmes aren't quite the same as police, as I understand it, for example.

I'm all for national pride

Well, I'm not! I just prefer clear communication.

sceptre

Originally posted by bonkey
As far as I know, Taoiseach is quite ancient in origin (Celtic), and I seem to remember Dail being the same. I could be wrong, but I've seen the term used quite often when referring to clan leaders in Celtic Ireland, as well Dail being the councils which they held.

I know I've seen references (not necessarily online) to the word "Tánaiste" being used for tribal leaders. Taoiseach I don't remember seeing (which of course, just means that - I don't remember seeing it)

Gael

The Taoiseach was head of the clan. His Tanaiste was his appointed second in command and selected to succeed him by the clan.
And that's basically what the modern day version is, a deputy prime minister.

daveirl

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