Tennis Madness

ChiGung

Two drunk Tennis Internationals hospitalise a Librarian. They leave the man in a coma fighting for his life. They turn themselves in to the Garda Station in tears, claiming a moment of madness. Do you think they should they be treated any differently to say, an 'inner-city scumbag' who didn't have their privileged upbringing?

mike65

This topic should proberly be on the er "Humanities"
board, cough.

I've just been in the Unison archives
and found the story - I did'nt realise it was the case of that cyclist who was attacked! I'm shocked frankly, though not sure why after all thiugs come in all shapes and sizes. They've been caught bang-to-rights on CCTV so hopefully they'll get the full force of the law.

Here's the story for those not familair-

Barry Duggan, the victim of a horrific assault, was still fighting for his life in a Dublin hospital yesterday as the Dail heard that parents are now afraid to go to bed at the weekend because they are terrified that their children will be attacked on the streets.
Three men have been questioned by gardai following a sickening attack on the 35-year-old librarian from Co Sligo who suffered horrific head injuries during the assault on Grafton Street, Dublin.
The three men who presented themselves to Pearse Street Garda station on Monday afternoon are believed to be in their 20s and include two brothers from Stillorgan and another man from Swords.
Described as being prominent in tennis circles, they are understood to have spent Saturday evening drinking having watched Leinster's European Cup victory over Biarritz.
They were questioned in the presence of their solicitors and a file is now being prepared by gardai for the DPP.
Mr Duggan, a native of Rathcormack, Drumcliffe, Co Sligo, was pushing his bicycle towards his Rathmines home when the assault happened.
Described as a gentle man by friends, he was based at the Pearse Street headquarters of Dublin City Libraries and worked as a member of the relief staff in various branches throughout the city.
Detectives were yesterday examining a "mountain" of CCTV footage provided by 10 outlets on Grafton Street and are still anxious to hear from anyone who witnessed the assault.
Mr Duggan was dragged up Lemon Street, a laneway off Grafton Street, sometime after 1.30am on Sunday and was then kicked and beaten unconscious.
Anyone with information is asked to contact Pearse Street Garda station or telephone 01-6669000.

Mike.

pencil

IMHO,

Firstly they are 'scumbags' just rich ones & I hope the scumbags get sent to the jail!


Controversial:
It could be argued that this behaviour from people with 'privileged upbringing' should get harsher treatment, as possibly they would be more likely to know right from wrong than your average 'inner-city scumbag' & therefore would be more likely to know their actions were criminal.

(I know; turn the argument around & it doesn't sound so reasoned)


On a side note, does the Joy have tennis courts ;-)

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by ChiGung
Two drunk Tennis Internationals hospitalise a Librarian. They leave the man in a coma fighting for his life. They turn themselves in to the Garda Station in tears, claiming a moment of madness. Do you think they should they be treated any differently to say, an 'inner-city scumbag' who didn't have their privileged upbringing?

I think they should be treated more leniently than those who don't turn themselves in. Five to 10 years I think depending on previous convictions.

therecklessone

I'm sure their legal team will argue for leniancy on the grounds that they gave themselves in (to be commended) and that they are "from good homes, and have never been in trouble before Mr Judge"...(utter bollox).

Why should a good homes/good behaviour argument have any effect on a court case? It always seems to be trotted out when cases like this arise. Is a crime not a crime anymore?

I hope they get to like prison food.

vorbis

only moderating factors are handing themselves in and no previous convictions. having a clean record does count for something.

Frank Grimes

If it was a couple scumbags from <insert place name> they'd probably be charged with attempted murder.

These people shouldn't be given any lenience, there's enough of that going on time and time again. They should be put away, regardless of their background, they're obviously a danger to the general public which they have demonstrated.

Last I heard on this one, one of the shops on Grafton Street handed over their CCTV footage from that night and the security guy interviewed said there was a good chance that the people could be identified from it.
Perhaps this wasn't an act of remorse by these guys, maybe they just reckoned they were going to be caught and gave themselves up hoping they'd get off or get some sort of leniency for doing it.

ChiGung

Yeah - I'd agree with Frank_Grimes. I understand a bit of argie- bargie with beer on a late night in Grafton street. People get fueled up and sometime a throw a few slaps.

But these boys wanted to do damage - they dragged him up a side street and kicked his head in.

ChiGung

The reasson I posted this and put it in politics was because I was shocked by the attitude of the Papers. They were going along the lines - 'isn't it a shame that Alcohol can do this to our society'.
I was thinking "What???" If it was scumbags that had attacked the guy they'd be calling for a public hanging.

Makes you wonder about our Journalists -

Mighty_Mouse

About the whole turning themselves in. They realised that Grafton street is covered in CCTV and a manhunt was underway 2-3 days before they turned themselves in. It was completely unprovoked and after they had knocked him to the ground they dragged him down a lane to finish the job.

Apparantly they turned up at the Garda Station with their legal team and entered a plea of self-defence, which they changed after the guards showed the cctv.

I accept that some of the above could be wrong, its just what I heard so its hearsay.

Its absolutely crazy. Alcohol wasn't to blame. Its a crying shame that this argument is being put forward.

I can understand if it was 16-18 year olds out of there heads but these guys are 21 -24 if im right so it doesnt escuse.

That man is still in a coma as far as I know, (coming up on 2 weeks now) which means if he does come out of it he will be very luck to get away with just long term physcologial (spell!) damage.

I think they should be done for attempted murder.

Hobart

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
I think they should be treated more leniently than those who don't turn themselves in. Five to 10 years I think depending on previous convictions.

By that analagy I could go out murder a person turn myself in and expect to be treated more lieniently. What kind of a message would this send out to other ppl? AFAIAC they should be charged with attempted murder and treated accordingly, if convicted. It was interesting that the family of one of the alleged perps came out and said that his son was only acting in self defense. What a neck he must have. The chap will be lucky to survive.

throw the book at them. they're scum.

bonkey

Originally posted by Hobart
By that analagy I could go out murder a person turn myself in and expect to be treated more lieniently.

And if you could prove that it was not premeditated, but rather an act of impulse you'd be right.

If, on the other hand, it was not an act of impulse, then you'd probably find that the lenience would disappear pretty right quick.

jc

MDR

the judge will let them off with a fine, I have no doubt, the judicery (spelling ?) in Ireland are a joke, our judges have no empathy with victims and when they do, have nowhere to send criminals ....

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Hobart
By that analagy I could go out murder a person turn myself in and expect to be treated more lieniently. What kind of a message would this send out to other ppl?

There has to be some incentive for criminals to turn themselves in surely? It's also shows some degree of remorse on their part.

Sparks

It strikes me as rather odd to be annoyed at Guantanamo Bay, and then to allow for the law to be applied differently to different people at home...

They beat the crap out of someone. It doesn't matter who they are - the guy on the ground is still as injured.

mike65

The latest is that 3 ppl questioned today and two released without charge, file being sent to DPP.
The third is being kept in for another 6 hours so he'll be in tucked up bed by midnight....

Mike.

bonkey

Originally posted by Sparks
It strikes me as rather odd to be annoyed at Guantanamo Bay, and then to allow for the law to be applied differently to different people at home...

In what way is the law "applied differently" to different people at home?

jc

Sparks

bonkey,
Well, I was actually referring to the original question in the thread - should they be treated differently. However, I would point out that several laws in this country are in fact applied very unevenly - for the easy examples, look at the speeding laws and ministerial cars; at the taxation laws and CJH; at the laws regarding assault and the actions of certain Gardai in the past. There are more incidents, but to compile a full list would require a lot of research and would probably make a decent book!

MDR

I tell you what, since the X, Y and Z got away with A, B, and C, its ok. This is always the last refuge of a person who refuses to take responsability.

It wasn't ok when whoever (the Parish Priest, the TD, the Garda, the Lawyer, the Teacher, the Nurse etc) did it, and because they weren't caught is no justification for letting more people away with the same thing ?

Wat would you propose doing with these lads presuming they are guilty (or with whoever is in fact guitly) ? , let them off because somebody else got way with it ?

bonkey

Originally posted by Sparks
bonkey,
Well, I was actually referring to the original question in the thread - should they be treated differently.

Fair enough. They shouldnt - they should be treated as the law and precedence dictates. This may involve a degree of leniency if they have no prior records, can come up with good references, convince the judge that they are genuinely remorseful and so on and so forth.

If the guy in a coma is obviously half-battered to death (as opposed to the opposite extreme someone hit once, fell down, hit his head and is a coma, or sometihng in between), then that leniency will be lessened or not given at all.

This is how everyone else should be treated, this is how they are treated when teh system doesnt fail, and I hope its how these lads are treated.

jc

Sparks

Ummm, MDR - I was arguing exactly the opposite
Bonkey, exactly - but that implies that the level of leniency is determined in open court, not by some guard in the middle of nowhere who decides "erra, sure'n why not". Which is how is should be...

Hobart

Originally posted by bonkey
And if you could prove that it was not premeditated, but rather an act of impulse you'd be right.

If, on the other hand, it was not an act of impulse, then you'd probably find that the lenience would disappear pretty right quick.

jc

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
There has to be some incentive for criminals to turn themselves in surely? It's also shows some degree of remorse on their part.

Do you know what lads? I dont give a flying fcuk wether it was premeditated or not. I also dont give a fcuk wheter the guy(s) whipped himself into a pulp with guilt. The fact is that I can behave in a totally "normal" way when it comes to having a pint, and even getting pissed!!. I don't have to be aggressive I don't have to be a dick-head. I get pissed and I get home.

It does not matter that these guys are sorry or that they turned themselves in. If they thought about it before or not. the fact is that they have left a young man on life support for the last 11 days with very little hope of recovery (if he does recover he will never be the same again). So in terms of lieniency(sp) or incentive. Here's one:

dont't do it in the first place and you will be ok.

Sand

Actually given the publicity and the moral outrage it fairly likely these lads will be made an example of and be given at least a double digit sentence....in months. They might even get a more than a year before theyre let out!!!!!

Bit of an exaggerration but theyre more likely to get a tough sentence, everyone breathes a sigh of relief that the system works and then we go back to same old same old beatings muggings and assaults that dont make the front page with a slap on the wrist if you get caught.

bonkey

Originally posted by Hobart
It does not matter that these guys are sorry or that they turned themselves in. If they thought about it before or not. the fact is that they have left a young man on life support for the last 11 days with very little hope of recovery (if he does recover he will never be the same again). So in terms of lieniency(sp) or incentive. Here's one:

dont't do it in the first place and you will be ok.

So what you're saying in effect is that - in general - the reasons for having done something dont matter. The fact that you did it is all that matters, yes?

jc

Hobart

Originally posted by bonkey
So what you're saying in effect is that - in general - the reasons for having done something dont matter. The fact that you did it is all that matters, yes?

jc

Initially one of these guys lied about the whole incident. After been shown the substantial footage he changed his mind. So his 'reasons' for doing this have changed.

And Yes that is exactally what I am saying. In cases like this where the young chap was on his own, and was set upon by 3 other lads and left close to death. The reasons for having done this do not matter, in general.

The only case where I could see some mitigating circumstances woould be that if the chap that was assaulted had a loaded weapon and was threatening to kill the 3 alleged assailaints. Other than that. No excuses.

parasite

he's out of his coma, so it's only assault
meh

ChiGung

Thank God for that!

It would have been so lousy if he had died.
Is there any brain damage or is he ok?