American Liberators

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Sparks
Nope. Try again. You have several more choices, you see, because the UN, unlike the US, actually has a record of peacekeeping.
Try here for more info

Remember Srbrenica? It was the US that saved the Bosnian Muslims, not the morally-bankrupt UN.

Éomer of Rohan

not the morally-bankrupt

I am really loving the irony of this phrase and how it is thrown about by those who support the most morally bankrupt of causes (anyone remember the basketcase POTUS coming off with this one?)

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
His point is quite valid; the situation in Iraq no longer fits the guidelines under which the US went to war (much as I disagreed with them) and now they should withdraw to make way for UN troops - after all, the withdrawal of US troops does seem to be the will of the new democracy in Iraq - or are the US and the pro-war supporters going to come up with some excuse to prolong US presence there?

How have the Iraqis expressed their democratic will on this? The US will withdraw - that's not in doubt - it's just that unlike the UN and the anti-war left, they don't want to leave Iraqis living in an absolute ****hole.

The UN can deal with anything in that country and now there is no longer a need for a US presence. The continued presence is clear justification of the view that the US had neo-Imperialist aims in Iraq.

The UN can deal with anything except opposing political factions. If the US were to withdraw now Iraq would collapse into civil war. Which the left would love because then they could blame that on America.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
I am really loving the irony of this phrase and how it is thrown about by those who support the most morally bankrupt of causes (anyone remember the basketcase POTUS coming off with this one?)

Only in the mind of the lunatic-left can democracy and human rights be considered a morally bankrupt cause.

Éomer of Rohan

How have the Iraqis expressed their democratic will on this?

By protesting and subsequently getting shot at.

it's just that unlike the UN and the anti-war left, they don't want to leave Iraqis living in an absolute ****hole.

Your either a troller or seriously brainwashed and we'll leave it at that until you are prepared to substantiate those claims and I say the same for your subsequent comment.

Sparks

Remember Srbrenica? It was the US that saved the Bosnian Muslims, not the morally-bankrupt UN.

The morally-bankrupt in that case were not the"UN" (which includes the US thanks) but the Russians who vetoed peacekeeping in the UNSC. There's a problem there, no question - but the solution is reforming the UNSC, not scrapping it.
But before you blame those damn pinko commies, look here and see what the US has vetoed over the years.
ps. What did happen to those bosnian muslims?

The UN can deal with anything except opposing political factions.

Yes, the Turks and Greeks showed us that.

Which the left would love because then they could blame that on America.

Which the left would hate because it would mean unnecessary deaths.

Only in the mind of the lunatic-left can democracy and human rights be considered a morally bankrupt cause.

Good think I'm not a part of the lunatic left then.
Mind you, I can't resist this one : Only in America could you condemn Cuba on human rights while operating Guantanamo Bay there.

Gordon,
Well, this is what happens when your parent's go and buy the Encyclopaedia Micropaedia for you when you're a toddler and you love to read

Sand

Is there no escape from this patronising crap? Surely there is a rule against this?

God forgives us all my child, even godless communist heathens such as yourself. Open your heart to gods love Eomer and repent from your sinful ways.

In other news, it seems another incident/shooting occured at pretty much the same place involving pretty much the same protagonists as yesterday.

Either the crowd came back for payback for yesterday, or the US troops are operating under extremely loose rules of engagement " See an Iraqi, kill an Iraqi".

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
By protesting and subsequently getting shot at.

How is this an expression of the democratic will of the Iraqi people? How can you consider it to be even indicative of the general attitude of Iraqis towards the Americans?

Originally posted by Sparks
The morally-bankrupt in that case were not the"UN" (which includes the US thanks) but the Russians who vetoed peacekeeping in the UNSC. There's a problem there, no question - but the solution is reforming the UNSC, not scrapping it.

You’re thinking of Kosovo there, not Bosnia. In Srebrenica, UN “peacekeepers” stood back when Serbians forces entered the town, expelled all Muslim women and children and then massacred the thousands of Muslim men left behind. (On a side note, I notice how no one ever calls for the Dutch garrison’s political masters to be tried for complicity in war crimes, unlike Ariel Sharon over Sabra and Chatila).

ps. What did happen to those bosnian muslims?

The Serbs stopped murdering them.

Yes, the Turks and Greeks showed us that.

Are you referring to Cyprus here? The UN had no role in internal security there, which is what is required in Iraq.

Sparks

How is this an expression of the democratic will of the Iraqi people?

Demonstrations against the US (who are armed, thus making demonstrating a dangerous business) is anecdotal when there's only one demonstration - when they're all over the country and when ordinary iraqis interviewed at random, that's a different story.

Look at it this way - it's as representative as a US election

You’re thinking of Kosovo there, not Bosnia.

Blip! Yes, my error. I was in fact thinking of the 1994 resolution.

On a side note, I notice how no one ever calls for the Dutch garrison’s political masters to be tried for complicity in war crimes, unlike Ariel Sharon over Sabra and Chatila

That would be because the orders didn't come from the dutch government, who have no operational control over UN peacekeeping forces. Sharon, however, did give the orders.
The dutch officers, on the other hand, have been accused of complicity in war crimes, but until the NIOD report was published, investigations were stalled.
Frankly, the whole debacle was a mess, start to finish, and should have been held up to far more investigation.

The Serbs stopped murdering them.

Really? That doesn't correspond to what we saw during the bombings...

Are you referring to Cyprus here? The UN had no role in internal security there, which is what is required in Iraq.

Yes, I am, and "internal" here is semantics. One town, two factions, one white line, one UN peacekeeping unit.
The Blue Beret's, when allowed to do their job, are surprisingly effective. It's when higher-up-the-chain officals get involved that things become farcical.