Is Arts a waste of time?

myhandle

Poll

simu

OK, you're probablt not going to walk into some high-powered job the second you get an Arts degree but
if you're fascinated by the Arts subjects you're studying and want to learn more...
if you learn to think in new ways and discover ideas that change the way you see the world and analyse events...
if you get to read books you never would have considered before and manage to understand texts that seemed completely inapproachable and bewildering...
etc etc etc
is that a waste of time?

RicardoSmith

Depends on your reasons for doing it no?

simu

Exactly!

Arts itself isn't a waste of time, some ppl get alot out of it.
Other ppl do waste their time coz they're not interested, learn nothing, fail exams etc but it's the same with all subjects ...
loadsa ppl picked computer science during the dot com boom years, weren't really interested in it, dropped out, they were obviously wasting their time but that does not mean CS is a waste of time.

It's annoying the way ppl feel free to make disparaging remarks about Arts and Arts students:(If you want to do well in it, you actually have to work just as hard as in any other course.

ballooba

A lot of people choose UCD Arts as a gateway to UCD (Low points) and i will admit that the social life in UCD used to be marginally better because of the on campus bars.

Simu before you say that this is a generalisation i know that a lot of people do Arts cos thats what they are into as are my mum and my sis.

If this is however your reason for going their, choose a course that is more suited to what you wan't to do.

rander00

What sort of job would an Arts degree enable you for??

I always wondered what arts degrees were all about. Is it a ver ygeneral thing?

beardedchicken

Originally posted by simu
OK, you're probably not going to walk into some high-powered job the second you get an Arts degree

but then that's true of most undergraduate degrees- i know of very few degrees that lead directly into employment these days- employers want further qualifications as well

originally posted by rander00 What sort of job would an Arts degree enable you for??

that's not the point of doing an arts degree- to me, it's not a vocational course- you're unlikely to enter a career in the subject you study without having done some kind of post-grad work- it's about attaining a certain level of education, improving one's analytical skills, writing skills, vocabulary, expanding one's mind, gaining the ability to consider more than one angle of an argument, and forming an opinion based on evidence. it's an all-round education, rather than a career-focused course with one definite goal in sight- who knows what an arts graduate will end up doing- that's the exciting (and terrifying) part!!! so, to answer your initial question, an arts degree enables you for just about any job you can think of!

Is it a very general thing?

in some ways yes, as i said above, it's about an education for life, not for a career- but it's such a misconception about arts that it's really general, and any fool can come out with a degree in the end of it- they wouldn't give you a degree unless you had reached some level of education or proficiency in your chosen field- the same way that they wouldn't give you an MD unless you could treat patients safely, they wouldn't give you a BA unless you had met the requirements- it's not the "easy option" for dumb people.



oh, and by the way- arts doesn't have particularly low points, in comparison to other UCD course- take science for instance- much lower than arts in the last few years!

leeroybrown

For quite a few people Arts is a waste of time (apart for the chance to be a dosser student for 3 years ).

Arts is a great course for someone to do if they have an idea what they would like to pursue further studies in. There are a lot of other people who just float throught the degree without getting anything from it.

It's really a case of what you make of it.

Pepe LeFrits

Just doing my 2nd year Arts exams in History & Geography at the mo. I never planned on doing Arts (I only applied for Comp Sci courses), but I chose BA Computer Sci in UCD so i could do Computer Science without having to do science subjects.

After first year i realised that i hated computer science, so i kept on the 2 arts subjects. Unfortunately I did absolutely nothing this year (bar a few essays), but a couple of weeks before the exams i decided i ought to finish the degree having come this far.

Having actually attended the last few lectures and started reading stuff for the exams, I was surprised to find some of it actually really interesting. I found myself reading stuff not because I had to, but because i wanted to... I think i need to go sit down for a bit.

Anyway, I think Arts is more about getting an education than training for a job, cos you won't get a job out of it (directly, at least). It's a gateway to other things.

From my POV, I'm planning on doing something related to journalism after college, as well as writing (books). History is useful for writing and analysing articles etc, while Geography is a pretty decent, broad course (during the first two years at least, it's largely a patchwork of History, Economics and Politics).

Woden

Originally posted by beardedchicken


oh, and by the way- arts doesn't have particularly low points, in comparison to other UCD course- take science for instance- much lower than arts in the last few years!

yeah but to be honest that doesn't mean a thing, points only reflect the demand for the course not how difficult it is or how good the course is, science points are low as there is not much demand for the course as a result people who are not quite able for the course get in and further more the drop out rate i would say is quite high.

arts has a large number of places but more people want to do it so the points are higher, and all the little boys and girls from D4 want to to arts coz daddy thinks they should go to college.

oh and then theres the courses who's points are purposely kept high by keeping the number of places down ensuring the creme de la creme get in i suppose.

beardedchicken

oh, of course, i realise (contrary to what teachers tell you for three years) that points are virtually meaningless to how able or intelligent you are- i was responding to someone else who said that arts is a gateway to UCD because of its low points. they're not, so ha! i also realise that the drop out rate in arts, while high, is nothing compared to that of science. make fo this what you will.

damnyanks

But I am guessing there are alot more Arts places then Science ?

Isnt it like 2k or something huge like that in first year arts ?

Woden

Originally posted by beardedchicken
oh, of course, i realise (contrary to what teachers tell you for three years) that points are virtually meaningless to how able or intelligent you are- i was responding to someone else who said that arts is a gateway to UCD because of its low points. they're not, so ha! i also realise that the drop out rate in arts, while high, is nothing compared to that of science. make fo this what you will.

ah roger that then, however i would still consider arts to have low enough points when compared with a number of other courses at u.c.d and to be honest i don't think many people considering doing arts would pick science just for the craic to get into u.c.d its got about double the number of hours in 1st year then a 1st arts student would have and all that.

ballooba

If you think that arts isn't a gateway course for a lot of people then you are only kidding yourself. The points for art are low compared to other courses in UCD thats fact. Science is also low compared to other courses.

m1ke

All degrees are just pieces of paper. If you don't put effort or aren't interested then it will be a worthless. The areas of knowledge covered in the many subject areas are very worthwhile and nescessary to the functioning of society.

There are careers graduates can enter directly without or with minimal further study/qualification/accreditation, too many for me to list here.

On average Arts graduates find employment just as easily as others. There is a significant range of future opportunities.

Whether people use it as a 'gateway' isn't relevant to whether it is a waste of time or not.

The points needed to enter the course are also irrelevant. Points aren't an indication of intelligence, or of the quality of the course in question.

ballooba

The fact that Arts is a gateway course does make it a wasteof time. its a waste of time for the people who only do it to get into UCD. For the people who actually want to do the course for its content it is a good way to keep them off the streets.

The fact that Arts is a low points course is relevant. Its releveant because thats what makes it a gateway course.

The point about keeping them off the streets above was only to make your heads explode, you can put them back together now.

simu

That's completely illogical!

Arts i.e. the study of languages, literature, history etc existed centuries, even millenia before the points system was invented and will continue to exist long after its demise, as long as there are humans left on the planet who like to explore ideas and question things.

Try to distinguish between Arts as an area of study and Arts students, ppl who are studying Arts at uni, some of which may be wasting their time, others of which certainly are not!;)

Chaos-Engine

Arts as in UCD and other NUIs yes...

But
Art courses NO. not at all.
And other Art/Humanities... yes Humanities is a better name for it. are very benifical courses... But a course like UCD arts where u pick 3 subjects and drop one the next year and it isn't even noticed on your degree is pants... just pure pants...

Chaos-Engine

UCD arts degrees... Please take one

Written over a toilet-roll dispenser in dublin by a wise man

ballooba

Originally posted by simu
That's completely illogical!

Arts i.e. the study of languages, literature, history etc existed centuries, even millenia before the points system was invented and will continue to exist long after its demise, as long as there are humans left on the planet who like to explore ideas and question things.

Try to distinguish between Arts as an area of study and Arts students, ppl who are studying Arts at uni, some of which may be wasting their time, others of which certainly are not!;)

I think you might have said somewhere that your first language is french. if this is the reason that you misunderstood my post then I apologise.

Arts is a gateway course because people don't get enough points to do other courses in UCD but they do get the points to do Arts. Hence the points level is relevant.

For people who are interested in Arts it is a good application of their time. For people who use Arts simply as a gateway to get into UCD it is a complete waste of time.

Arts obviously existed long before the points system and I don't know who you are trying to convince of that.

simu

Where I went to college, UCC, it's possible ppl use arts, commerce and science as gateways due to their relatively low points. However, as most of these ppl have no interest in their subjects, they rarely/never turn up at lectures and tutorials and are therefore not particularly noticeable to more enthusiastic students. Maybe it's different in UCD, but in UCC, they've devised fiendish plans like having continuous assessment and mid-term and end-of -year exams where you have to prove you have some knowledge of your subjects before they'll let you stay on at uni:) These do require some effort to pass hence the sad spectacle of ppl coming back to repeat exams in August / repeating the whole year and paying fees for it because they failed one module / dropping out of college altogether...

And, even though I sense a general tendancy towards dumbing-down infiltrating all areas of education, I believe the Arts courses at UCC (the only uni I'm familiar with personally) provide good mental stimulation for students and that any student who manages to pass the exams will have had at least some new ideas planted in their heads, even if they don't like to admit it

fizzy

There's more than one college than UCD y'know. I've just finished second year in TCD and I'm doing Economics, I needed 480 points to do single honours Econ, and i'm sincerely hoping there's a few jobs out there for arts grads because i'll need one

It's a complete myth that arts degrees are a waste of time, a degree is what you make of it (at the risk of sounding like a college brochure ! ). my sister did a mathsy degree and then a postgrad and although she'd three years older than me she had to come and get me to help her to do an essay with referencing and everything because during her entire 4 year degree she had never once had to write a proper essay, and i reckon writing coherant articles and papers is quite a basic and useful skill that can be applied to nearly all careers.

yes it's true that the failure rate in arts subjects is much lower (thank god!) but it is also true that much fewer people in arts get first vis-a-vis science students; the variance of grades for arts students is much lower with a lot more getting 2.1s 2.2s and 3's and less failing and getting firsts.

Arts isn't easy. That's an urban myth....

Sev

If arts interests you, how can it be a waste of time? But personally, I couldn't stand doing an Arts degree.

Woden

Interestingly enough until recently it was possible to do mathematics, mathematical physics, and statistics through arts in u.c.d (some can still be done i think perhaps just not maths physics now) and also its possible to do biology through arts in maynooth and i think it is recommended subject for people doing the likes of anthropology and sociology

Man U babe

Originally posted by Dataisgod
Interestingly enough until recently it was possible to do mathematics, mathematical physics, and statistics through arts in u.c.d (some can still be done i think perhaps just not maths physics now) and also its possible to do biology through arts in maynooth and i think it is recommended subject for people doing the likes of anthropology and sociology

You still can do maths, mp and stats thru arts in UCD and the maths and MP courses are the same in 1st year for arts and science (same exams and all). If I hadnt got mathematical science, that's what I was going to do. BTW, I'm liking the whole 'no essays' thing so far.

Woden

aye that may be true however there is girl taking her finals in maths physics and far as i know she will be the last person to take maths physics through arts, thats why i was thinking its just maybe for maths physics. I'd rather do it thru science anyway as at the end of the day your degree says BSc not BA

50Cent

the degree you get doesnt determine the job you'll do. You could get a degree in ****en astro physics and still get a marketing job if you wanted.

Woden

indeed for some reason physicists seem to end up in banking wtf? i don't wanna do a four year degree to end up in banking.

50Cent

man im in a four yr comp science degree and i dont want to be a programmer after or anything computer related as a matter of fact. Some may call me stupid, some may say "WHAT A WASTE OF TIME?"...i say "Nyeh!"...a degree is what you make of it. I just think its pretty interesting and ridiculously frustrating at times but ye its interesting and i can do wat i want and feel safe with a degree @ the end...but hey, im only a second yr(IF i passed all my first year exams...wont know till june 24'th) but ye, i may not get to the end...