Two Way High speed Satellite Internet

JaneyMackers

Hi all,

Web-Sat [http://www.web-sat.com. new site currently close to launch so bere with us on the current one] the only Irish owned and based Satellite Internet ISP and HUB is currently investigating the validility of launching our service on a commericial basis here in Ireland. We are only to aware of the lack of broadband options to much of the country.

I understand that ADSL and other broadband options are more attractive to many where available. This is a fact of life for Satellite Internet ISP's.

However in most of the 90 countries our footprint currently covers, there is a lack of not just broadband access but decent rural coverage.

Our option is not a land line based return path and therefore as a result not going to be ideal for most home users in Ireland.

My question to those of you here who might be interested in the small and medium sized business market, who currently have no ADSL and not likely to have it in the near future.

What would you ideally be looking for in packages of this type?

Be advised our downlink is currently up to 4Mbit/s and the uplink is 64kbit/s

If you would like to contact me regarding this issue please feel free to mail me at info@web-sat.com

Again I thank anyone for their interest and more so for their suggestions. From reading the other threads on this board I trust you all have much to offer on this subject.

Regards,
Ben McGahon
Web-Sat.

spongebob

this was being pimped in the Broadband forum last week ISTR :mad:

MDR

Ben,

Super to hear about the new service. One of the principle tenants of IrelandOffline is that we are campagining for service affordablity. So in light of this I feel we have to ask, how much (ball park figure is fine) you intend maketing this service for.

Two way (and even one way) satellite internet have been historically prohibitally expensive for the average punter (and business). Now given that you are probabily reselling a large provider service, there is little hope for us, that you are going to come in with a 'good deal', and as there are already other Satillete service providers, I curious as to what you think sets you apart.

I amn't looking for a hard sell here, as that would be witchhunted as pimiping, just roughily outline how you intend the sucessfully target the SME market and staive off competition from Digiweb et al. ?

crawler

Given the recent bashing taken by some people for posting here recently *ahem* - I am surprised this is still not locked. There is nothing new here - it's advertising/pimping at it's best.

Take out a banner ad.

Not trying to be stroppy here but fair is fair.

sceptre

Originally posted by MDR
I amn't looking for a hard sell here, as that would be witchhunted as pimiping, just roughily outline how you intend the sucessfully target the SME market and staive off competition from Digiweb et al. ?

Indeed, prices would be good. Ironically, just mentioning a new service without mentioning prices is also equivalent to pimping.

If you're just doing some market research, I'm sure Devore will come bounding in with something to say (that is an invitation btw)

JaneyMackers

o

echomadman

There's a worrying lack of any concrete information on your website, just the usual "high speed internet" waffle everyone+ dog is throwing about at the moment.
Is there somewhere where a decent technical spec can be found?

obviously this service is no good for gamers,
but what sort of lag/latencey would a user be looking at.
Will it be capped?
will you be blocking certain ports?
Do you use bespoke software like IPA to speed up browsing,

Also is that 256k a guaranteed minimum connection speed,
this in my opinion is more important than claims of "up to 4Mb"

spongebob

Originally posted by JaneyMackers
You have to give me something to release with the launch

B

How bout free Astra 2D and Hotbird LNB thrown in and a Bog Standard FTA receiver for the Beebs. Your timing would make that a good idea as long as the install cost, INCLUDING VAT, does not exceed €999 the lot.

M

elexes

i would like to see the expect speeds you intend on giving max/min in/out . and the price you are charging for the equipment/service

also do you expect to be giving caps out with this service

Occidental

Have already had a bad experience with a few sat resellers in Ireland, who don't like to be held accountable when the service goes to sh!t, so going direct can only be a good thing.

My only request is don't build up expectations that you can't deliver on, as people tend to have long memories around here.

STaN

I have heard that the latencies on such systems range from 500ms to 4000ms. Can any1 confirm this

Da Man

When are you planning to launch?

Saruman

Originally posted by STaN
I have heard that the latencies on such systems range from 500ms to 4000ms. Can any1 confirm this

If you are thinking about using for games then dont bother,.. likewise p2p might be out of the question too... not sure but certainly games are a no go.

ButcherOfNog

sup ben

What would you ideally be looking for in packages of this type?

i'd say thats not pimping, thats asking what you want, or if you want it. "JaneyMackers Registered: Feb 1998". He's been around a while has JM, he has not just regged and popped in here to advertise.

It would be useless for games, latencies with satellite systems are extremely high. Satellite systems are suited to big downloaders, the sort of people that like to download the internet every nite, p2p software will work fine with it.

Show us:
1. Install Costs (ex and inc VAT)
2. Monthly Costs (ex and inc VAT)
3. Install Lead Times
4. The SLA
5. Minimum contract term
6. Will there be a cap of any sort?

Bandwidth of 4Mbit/s down & 64kbit/s would interest alot of SME's, especially those outside the current broadband enabled areas. With that in mind, it would need to be uncapped, and would need a pretty tight SLA, once a business reports a fault they will need it fixed ASAP, plus as you'll be aiming at areas outside the big cities/towns, that may be difficult. What number of support/maintenance personnel have you got on the ground?

The important things my company would be looking for would be:
1. Higher uplink speed, 64kbit/s would not be enough for us.
2. Quick Install, if ordered we'd like it in within a month.
3. A guaranteed response time of 4hrs max for fault repair, downtime no greater than 2 working days per year.
4. Minimum contract term of 2 month, with an acceptance period of 2 months from install so we could cancel immediately if not satisfied.
5. Ability to rent the satellite equipment, rather than purchase.

So, whatcha think?

crawler

In fairness to the Sat providers - it is very difficult to give a concrete SLA as in most cases it is a "best effrot" service. For example the Sat could be taken for other uses ( in particular on any shared military Sat)

Latency on sat - forget it - it's awful - if your application is time dependant you are Donald Ducked - same goes for most gamers.

That said I agree with what most people say here - As Muck pointed out one of the biggest things is getting all the kit you need at a good price for the initial start up cost - also make it simple to understand - Not many aco****ants will know what a LNB is all about ( disclaimer - not saying that NO accountants will know etc etc )

crawler

Opps - spot the typo above! Sorry.

spongebob

Is the twig sticking outta the dish.

if there were twigs for the 2 main free digital sats the dish has other concurrent uses apart from VSAT service. If the VSAT service were unsatisfactory you would still have a perfectly good sat dish for free channels...like the beebs and another 200 or so from the Astra 2 and Hotbird clusters

The rest of the kit appears to be a pair of PCI cards (UP and DOWN) . No site visit required to uninstall these then is there?

My configuration requires that the home user keeps the dish and cabling come what may.

M

Xian

Hey, JM! How much for the piebald. Two bob! I'll give ye two bob for the piebald!

Originally posted by ButcherOfNog
i'd say thats not pimping, thats asking what you want, or if you want it.

originally posted in the Info & Rules
Please note:
Telecoms companies and ISPs are welcome to participate on the Ireland Offline Board as long as they intend to answer valid and legitimate questions that members of this community have (i.e. past tense) asked. Any attempt to 'market' or 'promote' your products will not be tolerated. If you intend to do this, we recommend you purchase a Commercial Interaction board. (Find examples of this Community -> Commercial Interaction)

"JaneyMackers Registered: Feb 1998". He's been around a while has JM, he has not just regged and popped in here to advertise.

Well that's just great! By the time the newbies have been around for five years Moore St. won't have a chance against us. In the meantime, I reckon I've been around long enough to ply my wares.

- Albatross! Get yer albatross! C'mon, they're lovely and warm.

Seriously, though. I was one of the advocates of commercial interaction here but this is just pimp-tastic! And without so much as a product to show for it!

'Tweren't like that back in my day: we'd 'ave Beams and the like selling vapour like 'twas gold-dust and we learnt th' 'ard way to give a cynical "humph" and turn away.

dahamsta

Gannet on a stick!

Dustaz

Hmmm.

This thread reeks of commercial advertising apart from one thing. He does admit there is no product offering yet.

The rules on commercial interaction are not set in stone and are dealt with on a case by case basis.

This one does seem to genuinely be asking for a way to launch a better satellite service and the people here (and the wireless forum btw) are good people to ask.

Having said that, a close eye will be kept on this. The first sign of anything else that comes close to the line and its locked.

This decision is subject to change because ive been working for 15 hours and Im just a little tired.

Da Man

If we ignore for a moment that the thread starter hasn't actually advertised anything, would it not be fair to say that it is about 100000000000 times more interesting to read about potential broadband products than a discussion about whether this is an advertisement or whether this breaks some inane forum rule?

Anyways, I'm still interested in knowing when this happy new offering will be launched.

JaneyMackers

Post Removed:

spongebob

Originally posted by JaneyMackers

2. . The install costs will including costs be at the EUR250 mark.

6. The FUP sets 24 hours thresholds. If there is abuse of the system they will be slowed down. By abuse I mean downloading music and DVD's etc in an abusive manner. You will never be stopped just slowed

I will add my two pence to this issue.

1. ISDN is not very affordable. However where is the greater revenue for Eircom? Isdn or Broadband? Much fiberoptic cable is laid. Why is it not in use?

2. Why is the goverment not promoting community action groups. communities or town with no ADSL. Band together and pool your resources and voices to get it.

JM

2. You said Install €280 and does that include Dish/Receiver/Labour or is that simply Labour....a bit disingenous of you if that is so. Do remember that most people who cannot get DSL by next year will not have cable TV either by next year. Have you considered a solution which solves all their potential sat requirements in one visit ....especially the dish.

6. I like the principle in the FUP where it will throttle back on a 24 hour rolling basis and then release the throttle at the end of the period, thats a fair way to keep everyone happy. If I kick off me linux isos at midnight I will be limited to 64k once I hit my 'hog' limit around 6am or whatever. I know that will happen. Thats fair.

Regarding your other points

1. Flat Rate is coming in under 2 months. We know all about the fibre in here.

2. Community groups spring up , they are not a top down formation. Remember that you are in essence encouraging a community group to form and then to BROADCAST microwaves from a small town or village as a substitute last mile , can you see the incongruity in what you are proposing?

M

BoneCollector

FFS!
Will you guys all F lighten up!
You all crave information and topical discussion
then you hipicriticaly come the greater than thou atatudes and slander people for there efforts with words like Pmping

Get off you F high horse`s and stop being such Bsds
i keep seeing people wanting more interaction from the likes of UTV etc.. but when some one else takes the initiative some of you decide you own the bludy discussion boards and start ranting about pimping..
FFS
What is this a F Gistapo camp or summit..
Get a life!
These pople are tying to help
Keep this up and no one will bother!

JaneyMackers

Muck,

Strong language you use there.

I have come across groups like these that have been in effect since satellite TV etc. They have had sucess. I'm not a member of one. However in the cases i have come across that have had sucess.

Its not for me to decide what a community decides to do. Iam just offering information on what has worked in the past.

spongebob

Could you answer one of the points I have raised....in ALL my responses to your 'Market Research'.

This one please

€280 Gets you

1
2
3

AND NOT

1
2
3

M

MDR

Muck,

Could you clarify your question (possibly repeat it?) to JaneyMackers, I have slightily lost your arguement. If you seriousily expect an answer, a little less contempt (although I do understand where you are coming from) would do no harm either, or are you making a point through sarcasm ?

spongebob

Sats are expensive to install. Thats the biggest problem, taking a punt with (around) €1500 - €2000 of your own good money.

Many do not work as advertised or ANYWHERE near it, (then you are into 'no SLA' territory which means no satisfaction territory when it all goes pear shaped)

Show me one Sat installation in Ireland that is more than 3 years old and where the users are blissfully happy and couldn't bother changing to something cheaper/faster/more reliable etc etc.

The equipment is mutually incompatible between sats. If you chuck the service it after the 1 year contract it is not your kit (normally) after you paid thru the nose for installation

1 way Sats , used with FRIACO/ISDN are now looking like a good idea, they weren't for a long time.

Much of the target market for VSAT is the BMW region, the suppliers (historically) are all in Dublin or Cork. What happens if there is a problem with it. What happens if you THINK there is a problem and there isn't, the engineer went down from Dublin to Donegal and back in a day for nuthin, how much does that cost?

Finally

1. I was right about Beam all along :mad: and warned everyone.
2. I have not made my mind up on this one yet.
3. If the installation is €280 ALL IN ...like I asked twice or three times already in this thread I would seriously consider advising people to take a punt on it.
4. If it is €1500 + VAT like Digiweb and the rest then my strong inclination is to let someone else be the guinea pig.
5. I remain to be convinced that this is not another Beam or whatever, Ireland is littered with failed VSAT installations particularly the west where I live.
6. Aramiska have a good reputation , they charge €360 a month for 512/128 incl VAT . This will cost €80 a month .....hmmm.

M

echomadman

I have to say I agree with all of mucks points on this,
Having had bad experiences with Satellite internet access, and major difficulties with their tech support/installation people (I had to lend them a ladder and run a portion of cabling myself)
I am reluctant to put any faith in what seems to be another overhyped product with no real detail.

[edit]
Information which I see is now removed..........

spongebob

Originally posted by JaneyMackers
Post Removed:

Be the hokey.:D . now I have nothing upon which I can comment strongly.

There is one VERY good reason to avoid WebSat like the plague. Their main live service is in Nigeria it seems. Because of this they seem to have become a Global conduit for Nigerian 419 activity. Ya may have problems with yer web based email if it goes thru WebSat

I would be very embarrassed if a simple query on my company produced This Response from Google

My market reseach indicates that an Irish service should use a completely different set of IP addresses to give us a chance...like.

MadsL

Bit harsh Muck, a similar search for eircom.net isn't a pretty picture either...