Old Boys Club?

Kell

Something that struck me recently was two articles in the press regarding a) Denturists and b) Pharmacists.

In the first article, there is a Denturist (person who makes and sells dentures) suing the Government, the Department of Health and someone else to the tune of €1m as his practise is not "legal" in Ireland. He is not allowed to sell his wares as far as I understand as only dentists in Ireland can sell dentures. It doesn't matter that "Dentists" in Ireland are not as qualified as he is to make the damn things nor that his wares cost approx 30% less than they do from a dentist.

The second article referred to the seriously tough time that Pharmacists have here. The article stated that pharmacists here have been píssed for a very long time becuase of the rule that states that if you did not receive your training in Ireland you cannot open your own pharmacy. Poor buggers need to buy one off someone else that has been open for more than three years. It doesnt matter that there is only one Pharmacy course in Ireland offered through Trinity and that places on it are like gold dust.

Anyway, the crux of the two issues for me is that surely this "Legal" or not legal practise of allowing/not allowing people to trade in the country pulls the legs out from under competition. What the fúck do we have a competition authority for when there are restrictions placed on trade in the two areas mentioned and I am sure there are more where they came from too?

I am sure that if I dug into it a bit deeper then I would find that there are probably a lot of industries affected by daft rules. It's almost like the government is trying to promote anti-competitive behaviour. Why? I mean, at the end of the day it's poor buggers like me that end up suffering through the lack of competition in the country. And as for the insurance game? Dont get me started.

K-

Beëlzebooze

now you are on the subject....

when you go into a pharmacy, are all the staff there qualified pharmacists? or are some of them "just" sales staff (no offence to the "just" sales staff out there)

are they qualified to tell you what you can and cannot do after having your drugs? I'm alway quit sceptical when they offer advice about "perfectly safe" to drive, and yes it's fine to have a drink after this. I for one, always read the piece of paper that comes with the medicine, but I can imagine alot of folks just assume that the sales person knows what they are talking about....

Cork

I think that when you see what Ryanair are charging for flights compared to what people are being charged for Taxi, Bus & Train rides.

Even when you go into a town and look at petrol prices - you see that in some towns prices are idendical.


I know of a situation where a local supermarket ownder objected to a German supermarket coming into town.

There needs to be competition watchdogs. For far too long - there have been too many sacred cows in Ireland. Variious groupings looking after their own patch.

They care little about the consumer.

Sparks

From having a family member work in a pharmacy,
No, not all are qualified in pharmacy, but there's always a qualified pharmacist in the shop.

Sparks

I'd love to see how anyone plans on changing the monopolistic practises in Ireland though - without armed revolution that is... :rolleyes:

Rolo Tomasi

I know that that since the euro has come in I have started to shop around a lot more and if I see something that a blatantly a rip-off then I will buy it abroad. I feel that more and more people are doing the same

Dentists really are a cozy cartel, little if no competition. Possible cause - by law they are not allowed to advertise.

flangeman

I have to agree, its a disgrace, I used to work in a pub near my wee town and one evening I was told to cleanup the back room.

No probs I cleaned the whole thing out and sure enough these 14-18 well dressed people walked in and shut the door.

I asked my boss(the publican of the place, quite a small pub) what the story was with the crowd. She told me how its all the local chemists and they were basically agreeing on the prices for the next year on certain products plus 'Any Other Business'

Anybody else seen anything like this?

Kell

Just on the subject of price fixing. I was talking to a client some time ago who saved €1.2m on the construction of his premises because he found out that the consultant firm he went to constantly went to five companies on a rotation basis so some would deliberately quote too high safe in the knowledge that they would get the next contract the consultant firm was offering.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Victor

It's largely down to legislative and governmental inertia. What is needed is a series of joint committees Oireachtas / civil service / professional advisors with strong mandates to bring legislation in the 20th century.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Cork


There needs to be competition watchdogs.

I'd imagine the people we have elected to govern the country should be capable of doing this...on second thoughts, feck all chance of that, hald the Dail are either doctors or publicans. Vested interests?

Cork

Mary Harney was on the radio this morning talking about bring in an Insurance Bill to bring in more competition.

But insurance premiums have been high for years. We need more pro-active competition policys in a range of areas.

There is a board that goes on about internet access. It has highlighted price differances between Ireland and the UK.

Things are happening in this area. But action takes too long. Onece a problem of competion is highlighted it should be tackled.

Kell

Originally posted by Cork

But insurance premiums have been high for years. We need more pro-active competition policys in a range of areas.

I was reading a cost comparison the other day between all the insurance companies and with the same set of criteria for each quote the difference I think was tops about €30 from company to company. Wheres the competition there?

Also, Brennan was quoted the other day as seeking a 15% reduction in peoples premiums for not having penalty points, which the IIF refused, yet several insurers said that anyone with points faced a 20% hike if they had points. Wheres the logic in that?

K-

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Cork
Things are happening in this area. But action takes too long. Onece a problem of competion is highlighted it should be tackled.

The Government only seems to react after there has been a problem for years or does not react at all. Take the taxis, for example. The only reason it is no longer a closed shop is because the Government lost a case in court (taken by the hackey drives). The Government were actually defending the limiting of numbers of taxi drivers.

Another example is pub licencing. When it was found that this was a major source of inflation, rather than liberalising the pub licences, the Government tried to impose price controls on the existing closed shop.

Despite some movement, there seems to be reluctance to take on vested interest groups.

RainyDay

There needs to be competition watchdogs.

There is one - The Competition Authority

but they need evidence. They need people like flangemen to give them his story, with dates/names - something that could stand up in court. There is no point about whining on a bulletin board about lack of competition if we're not prepared to stand up & be counted.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
Even when you go into a town and look at petrol prices - you see that in some towns prices are idendical.

I know of a situation where a local supermarket ownder objected to a German supermarket coming into town.

There needs to be competition watchdogs. For far too long - there have been too many sacred cows in Ireland. Variious groupings looking after their own patch.

They care little about the consumer.

Too right. Effective cartels*. I've made a similar point in the past hour on the IOFFL forum. Merely having more outlets/suppliers doesn't solve the problem (it's a fault in neo-classical economics in a small economy). I well believe the point above about a supermarket objecting to a German shop (Lidl I assume) opening. Bah. Funnily enough, there's actually reasonable competition in the supermarket trade lately (not "great" competition but "some" competition)

As Cork implies in a later post, someone needs to do something about it (the "government" in other words). Competition is fine and dandy but when existing businesses do effectively act as cartels, protecting their own patch to the detriment of the consumer, what Keynes said about regulation and needing to force the market towards equilibrium needs to be given a close look. Laissez-faire economic policies can't work in an economy of our size and nature. By definition, laissez-faire (or even neo-neo-classical (read "Friedman post-1976")) economics can't work in any sector that has barriers to entry like the pharmacy and pub trades. That's the one thing the PDs (in particular) and our current Minister for Finance (who might be as well off joining the PDs before they realise they may just as well rejoin FF) don't seem to understand. Did no-one in this country notice that monetarism doesn't work? I wouldn't mind, but a six year old child could get it.



*by "effective cartels" I obviously mean businesses involved in the same sector who aren't actually operating as cartels (in other words, they're not formally colluding on price) but are setting their prices in the same close range to avoid actual competition. Telecoms industry for one (odd that I should mention that one, eh?:)) - there are plenty of others though.