mandatory id cards

Fence

Well I'm late to this thread, but loads of interesting points have been raised.

personally I disagree with bringing in compulsory ID cards. They aren't needed, what is needed is for the law to be enforced. Have the guards to random checks in pubs, if they find underage drinking then penalise both the drinker & the publican, unless the drinker supplied ID, in which case it is all on the drinker, plus bust them for having a fake ID.

I have an ID card, but I chose to go get it, because I wanted to be able to get into pubs etc (I'm 24 so over that 23 yet still get carded depending on who I am out with).

Cya
Fence

Captain Trips

Originally posted by Fence

personally I disagree with bringing in compulsory ID cards. They aren't needed, what is needed is for the law to be enforced. Have the guards to random checks in pubs, if they find underage drinking then penalise both the drinker & the publican, unless the drinker supplied ID, in which case it is all on the drinker, plus bust them for having a fake ID.

I totally agree. We already have garda-verifiable IDs and I say driver's licenses would be best.

What's odd is that I rarely hear locally of garda "raids" on bars and pubs. When I was 18 or so, I remember that a lot of places frequented by that age group would be raided. If everyone (and that means everyone - heck, in one off license/liquor store in Boston I couldn't buy beer, not only did you have to be over 30, but you had to have a MA drivers license). Now that was strict, but I like the way it works in the US regarding ID.

And maybe it's because of the new anti-discrimination laws that are being abused by an age-group that once could not afford to get plastered and were restricted to bars or clubs that catered for them while I remember having loads of trouble ever getting into places that were say 23s, etc., . Those laws regarding anti-discrimination I fear were brought in to stop say job application discrimination and they gave it as much thought as the Good Friday agreement regarding people being born on the island and never thought about the extra unintended consequences.

Simply update the law with specifics, but enforce with raids different pubs. Heck, the pub owner is not responsible IMHO for trouble making youth. If gardai raided pubs maybe they'd pick up problem groups before they all spilled out at 3am.

monument

Originally posted by solice
the nazis had them, the communists had them and now bertie wants them. what is happening to liberal ireland. the introduction of mandatory id cards for everyone that goes into a pub under the age of 23 is shamefull.

1. it aint going to solve the problem of underage drinking in this country. the vast majority of U18s in this country dont go drinking in pubs, they go gatting or bushing.

2. im 19, i am entitled to go into a pub and have a drink. i carry id with me anyway, what happens if i leave my mandatory card of enslavement at home.

3. to prevent the few U18s that do go to the pub and drink, impose harsher and more strict punishments on the landlord. after all he is the one supplying the demand.

i dont like the idea and i will not carry that card.

I haven’t got time to read all of the replies but the first post is just a rant…

You want more punishment for pub owners and you don’t want them asking you for ID, wtf? And you say you carry ID (“i carry id with me anyway”) but then you say you won’t carry “that card”.

It should be up to you to prove your age, not only under 20 whatevers but every one should be carded like they do in the US (and once the bartender knows you he/she won’t have to card you again).

I haven’t seen it in detail but I would be far more worried about other parts of the bill. For one how is a bartender to know who is “intoxicate”, does the customer have to walk in a straight line??? Or will any body who wants a drink need to take a breathalyser (s?) ???

[Edit:] Question: How do you prove you’re over 23? With ID?

bonkey

Originally posted by Captain Trips
I totally agree. We already have garda-verifiable IDs and I say driver's licenses would be best.

And just tough crap on the people who dont drive?

I dunno....people are opposed to any form of national ID card for a myriad of Big Brother reasons. They are opposed to an under-X-age ID card for the purpose of solving a specific problem.

And yet the only general solution offered is to use existant forms of ID which not everyone has, and which are more expensive than the proposed new system.

Its also quite humorous.....if you want to be able to drink, you have to have a licence which says you're able to drive......

jc

Captain Trips

One part of the new bill to be enacted in 6 weeks is the bit mentioned above about under-23s carrying IDs. So great, let's say an 18 year old is refused - he says but I'm 25, I don't need ID saying that - and then sure have a nice night sir.

Driving licenses show a degree of responsibility that the wreckless drunk youths under-23 have shown they lack? Is this a tough but fair policy?

I'd rather everyone was carded. No loophole. Garda do a raid or something and everyone whips out ID. Some underage guy who is inside with say a secret valid ID saying he's over 18 but he had a fake over-24 one. Doesn't make a difference - he is trying to disrupt the course of justice and knows full well he is illegal.

I say come down hard on the law breakers and not the pub owners who basically are looking at both **** and the shovel, and if anything goes wrong it's some drunk saying he was discriminated against.

Blame the people breaking the laws and go after them - or is that too much work for the Gardai?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Captain Trips
I'd rather everyone was carded. No loophole. Garda do a raid or something and everyone whips out ID. Some underage guy who is inside with say a secret valid ID saying he's over 18 but he had a fake over-24 one. Doesn't make a difference - he is trying to disrupt the course of justice and knows full well he is illegal.

Why would he bother with a fake over-24 one when one saying he's 18 or 19 will do? Basically, there's no solution to fake ID other than making them hard to duplicate.

I think the ID requirement for under 23's will cut down on under 18 drinking because for the most part it is easier to distinguish between someone who is 17 and someone who is 24. It is hard to distingush between someone who is 17 and someone who is 18.

Someone who is 17 will now find it harder to get a drink unless they look over 23. Not all 17 year olds look over 23.

It does put pressure on publicans who would otherwise not be bothered. Too bad.

Yoda

This is a long thread, and I may be repeating a point, but:

Of course a passport should be considered valid ID in pubs. It has one's name, picture, and birthdate on it.

Irish driving licences should be, as U.S. driver's licences are, made of robust, credit-card sized plastic, and should have one's name, picture, and birthdate on it in addition to the licence information. These should be accepted as valid ID in pubs.

If a person does not have either a passport or a driving licence, then a non-driving licence should be made available which would be in all respects identical to the driving licence except that it should state clearly that it is for ID purposes only and is not a driving licence.

That's how it works in the U.S. anyway. Indeed, sometimes only the driver's licence and non-driver's licence are recognized by bar staff, who may never have seen a passport.

solice

ok i read this story in the sun or the evening hearld so its probably not at all valid or true. but apparently in the uk they are going to introduce mandatory id for everyone of every age.

but get this, it will cost everyone £39, yes £39. the government is enforcing a mandatory card and they are getting everyone to pay for their own.

those over 75 and people who cant afford it will get it free but the rest have to pay.

does anyone else think that its going to the extreme

Trebor

Originally posted by solice
ok i read this story in the sun or the evening hearld so its probably not at all valid or true. but apparently in the uk they are going to introduce mandatory id for everyone of every age.

but get this, it will cost everyone £39, yes £39. the government is enforcing a mandatory card and they are getting everyone to pay for their own.

those over 75 and people who cant afford it will get it free but the rest have to pay.

does anyone else think that its going to the extreme

IIRC it is going to be for claiming social welfare benifents and an ID all rolled into one.

Fence

IIRC it is going to be for claiming social welfare benifents and an ID all rolled into one

And that is one I would have a problem with. If you lost it then you would be stuck, plus there are all sorts of privcy issues involved in sticking impostant details on a card.

ID should not be mandatory, but in order to prove your age you should have to show ID. The Garda ID should be publicised a lot more. ANd it should be made illegal for it to be refused.