3rd Level Fees: Rich families to pay

Sand

If its a good investment, which would be to industry's benefit, then surely they should have no grounds for complaint - it will be ultimately to their benefit. If it is not a good investment, then there is no reason to suggest that it is a good thing for the public to spend their money on it instead, unless it somehow is the public's job to subsidise industry.

Its a nice idea because I might similar logic to argue that a generous state "loan" should be used by students- but whilst the students would receive a direct benefit the companies wouldnt be.


Also, wouldnt an increase in tax on corporations actually work against what the government is aiming for with a more knowledgeable workforce? On the one hand youre working to attract investment by increasing education, and on the other youre trying to scare off investment by raising taxes. Im not sure if there would be a net benefit or gain, beyond opinion of course, but it would be fairly confused in terms of whats being aimed for and how its being achieved.

bonkey

Originally posted by Sand
Also, wouldnt an increase in tax on corporations actually work against what the government is aiming for with a more knowledgeable workforce? On the one hand youre working to attract investment by increasing education, and on the other youre trying to scare off investment by raising taxes. Im not sure if there would be a net benefit or gain, beyond opinion of course, but it would be fairly confused in terms of whats being aimed for and how its being achieved.

Well - like you said, its open to opinion....so lets not go down that road.

However, your stance was that the public-funded education should be somehow targetted to build up our "natural resource" for companies to use. It is this view of it as a natural resource which is why its OK to not offer it as a public service, but rather to only spend the money on the most identifiably beneficial segment of them.

I'm just curious...if a paper mill were to be interested in opening in Ireland, would you agree that it would be a good idea for the government to spend the public's money growing the forests for this mill to use? Let the taxpayer pay for growing the trees, and let the company chop em down then use them to generate profit....and not have to pay anything for this resource in return?

Ireland's strength is not in an "educated work force", it is in an exceptionally higly educated work force. This has been achieved through the use of public education - not specifically targetted at anyone. This is fine - I have no problem with this. I believe that the public should pay more - if necessary - to maintain the same standards of public education.

However, if someone is suggesting that we should spend more money to create an even more specialised and well-educated chosen subsection of the public, specifically to benefit business, then to me thats like the government growing trees with my money and letting the logger chop em down and take the profits.


jc

Sand

However, your stance was that the public-funded education should be somehow targetted to build up our "natural resource" for companies to use.

My stance is that the government has ( correctly imo ) identified foreign investment as being vital to Ireland, as they provide infrastructure, jobs (directly and indirectly) and tax revenue ( again directly and indirectly ). The government has to attract this investment and low corporate tax ( probably the single most important factor ), common market membership *and* an educated workforce are probably the top 3 selling points for Ireland.

Its not as if the government is giving companies free assets and resources - theyre trying to coax these companies to invest here rather than Hong Kong to the benefit of the economy which affects the entire public - if only through increased wealth transfers.

Ireland isnt alone in having a well educated workforce so it should imo begin to specialise or at least only support useful courses, so that we end up with enough IT specialists, engineers,chemists, biologists, technicians, bankers and accountants to make us all the more attractive. Funding a host of English degrees on the other hand isnt as beneficial.

I'm just curious...if a paper mill were to be interested in opening in Ireland, would you agree that it would be a good idea for the government to spend the public's money growing the forests for this mill to use?

Nah the government should stay out of it - let some private individual see an opportunity to invest and grow and sell the lumber themselves. If no private group is willing to do so there isnt any profit in it. Id argue the same for education to a degree - having a degree boosts your wages on average - surely you should be willing to pay for it yourself, if only by an extremely generous government loan - if theres money at stake youll find people taking a far more serious attitude to 3rd level and less drop outs ( who denied a place to someone with slightly lower points, who may have stuck in there and got through ).

Havent got time to go into any more detail right now - perhaps later.