Israel to join EU?

sanvean

Posted in the Israeli Defence Forces thread, but I think it could do with a seperate thread.

Originally posted by Captain Trips
However, this link is very interesting:
http://www.metimes.com/2K1/issue2001-11/reg/katsav_says_israel.htm or have a look at Breaking News today in the Irish Times (it was on GPRS/WAP earlier).

What do people think? Should there be at least some (geographical at least) limit to the extent of the EU? Or does the EU just comprise of states which adhere to democratic principles. As far as I'm concerned, Israel have probably as much chance of joining the EU as Belarus, especially when we consider their ethical practices.

bug

If they wont let Turkey in until it cleans up its act on human rights issues, then in my opinion Israel should not be allowed to join under any circumstances.

Lemming

Originally posted by bug
If they wont let Turkey in until it cleans up its act on human rights issues, then in my opinion Israel should not be allowed to join under any circumstances.

As someone else pointed out in the thread where the above link originated Bug, Israel in it's current shape & form is a liability to whomever associates themselves with it.

And as you pointed out, if Turkey is being made clean up it's act if it wants to join, you can bet heavy money on Israel being made do the same if it even wants to be considered for membership.

bug

As someone else pointed out in the thread where the above link originated Bug, Israel in it's current shape & form is a liability to whomever associates themselves with it.

I agree completely!? must read thread below didn't see it.

Dampsquid

AFAIK a country can't join the EU if there is a dispute over its border location. Therefore there is no chance of Israel joining.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Dampsquid
AFAIK a country can't join the EU if there is a dispute over its border location. Therefore there is no chance of Israel joining.

Like Cyprus? Or Ireland for that matter - if memory serves me correctly we only reliquished our legal claim to the north a few years back.

da_deadman

I cant see how Israel should be let into the EU. The last time I checked the EU stood for EUROPEAN Union. I still dont know why Israel is in the Eurovision or UEFA. The US and UK made a mess of things by creating that country after WW2 and have consistently failed to sort out the problem. If Israel was to become a member state then the EU would be dragged into the conflict in the Middle East. What then would be the plan of action for this European army that they were talking about creating?

bonkey

Originally posted by da_deadman
If Israel was to become a member state then the EU would be dragged into the conflict in the Middle East. What then would be the plan of action for this European army that they were talking about creating?

I would imagine that the Israeli's would lose their absolute control of the situation, bowing instead to a pan-European decision-making body (EU-analogue of the UNSC perhaps).

Alternately, they'd be left in charge of it themselves, and there would be no intervention by the EU whatsoever.

IN other words, theyd be given a choice of "your mess, you decide how to deal with it", or "our mess, we decide how to deal with it".

jc

Victor

Actually, I think it's a good idea. It means that the Israelis will need to sort their house out (borders, human rights, economic and fiscal controls, civilianising the economy), while at the same time offering a very big carrot to those who cooperate. It might also make the rest of the Arab countries approach a settlement if they see Israel taking a more sensible approach and moving towards Europe rather that Americans hawkishness.

As for the EU being European, there are EU territories in South America, Africa and the Indian and Pacific Oceans (take a look at the map on your Euro notes). Cyprus, Morocco and Turkey have been considered for membership. "European" is merely a discriptor, not a pre-condition.

Chaos-Engine

Personally I belive that the EU should have a defined limit to its borders. Turkey is too large and vast. We should draw teh line east at Russia and Turkey(and develop specail relationships with them)... Saying this. If Israel was forced to conform to EU principles (cause they are along long way off). If Israel decided to make peace with Palistine and create a SINGLE PALISTINE/ISRAEL state similar to the one proposed for Cyprus. Then i can only say that this is a good thing.
The promise of membership to the EU causes reforms very fast and can help turn round a state such as Israel when it comes to Human Rights Violations....
I'm highly sceptical But if the EU says to Israel that they have to conform such as Turkey and Cyprus then I'm all for it and for peace in the middle east

Éomer of Rohan

Europe should expand as much as it wants but Israel and Turkey should be out of the question until the human rights issues are sorted. Russia should be included.

sanvean

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
Russia should be included.

in being excluded or in being allowed into the EU? bcos, I think they'd have a lot of human rights issues to consider. and the suppresion of the press and so on and so forth. but i'm guessing that's what you meant.

bonkey

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
Russia should be included.

Once the human rights issues are sorted, yes?

jc

Sand

The last time I checked the EU stood for EUROPEAN Union. I still dont know why Israel is in the Eurovision or UEFA.

AFAIK its to do with the genuine warmth and closeness in the relationship between Israel and its neighbours which make it rather suicidal for Israeli teams to travel to say Iran for a crucial world cup qualifier.

Im not sure there should be geographical limits on EU membership but the whole EU project is towards an ever closer union which is harder and harder to justify/implement the more varied the members and their particular demands.

Israel isnt ready for membership now and probably wont be any time within the next decade or two if ever given its troubles.

Victor

Originally posted by Sand
Israel isnt ready for membership now and probably wont be any time within the next decade or two if ever given its troubles.

But countries are willing to wait that long - UK (17 years), Turkey (20+), current applicants (13).

Sand

But countries are willing to wait that long - UK (17 years), Turkey (20+), current applicants (13).

Yep - just making the point that Israel isnt going to be in the EU in the next 2 or 3 years so its nothing to get worked up about right now. Either way, 20 years from now when possibly some sorry conclusion has been reached, the situation may be far different from now or what we imagine it to be. Israel and Palestine mightnt even exist if some valorous freedom fighters get their way.

davelerave

at least if they join we might be able to exert some pressure on them to clean up their act unlike the us

Chaos-Engine

Lets do it US style and Invade with our new shiny EU Rabid Reaction Force

Sparks

C-E, are you kidding? The last time the Irish APCs got near a drunk driver in a fiat, we lost two APCs and several soldiers had to be treated for shock

Victor

Originally posted by Sparks
C-E, are you kidding? The last time the Irish APCs got near a drunk driver in a fiat, we lost two APCs and several soldiers had to be treated for shock

Now, now. Until the war in Iraq, the Irish Army was the only foreign one to operationally deploy in Israel in a very long time (when Israel withdrew from Lebanon).

sceptre

Originally posted by Dampsquid
AFAIK a country can't join the EU if there is a dispute over its border location. Therefore there is no chance of Israel joining.

<cough>Rockall</cough>