IQ & Intelligence

smiles

I've known several people at CTYI (and outside it) who wander through life with a superiority complexy because of their supposed level of intelligence (or high IQ)...

Does anyone here have any opinions on this...

Does having a higher IQ make you a better person?
Does going to CTYI make you a more worth citizen?

Do you believe in the multiple types of intelligence?

<< Fio >>

lordsippa

Well obviously I'm just god cause I got into CTYI. I mean it's not like there were other people there or people who just didn't hear about it or perhaps aren't that quick at filling in dots <slow wrist action>. Obviously.

The one thing I have to admit is that I do tend to get annoyed at people who take AGES catching on to what I see as a simple idea. Usually it's my fault cause I suck explaining things though so I've come to learn to be a bit more tolerant... but when they don't even take the initiative to think one step ahead themselves and can't see the solution when it's staring them in the face and is, in fact, labelled (i'm thinking here of helping people with problems in Word or some such.. y'know... aunts and the such).... well then it's just grr-ifying!

So I guess I can be a bit snobby on the ol' intellectual front. But I try not to be outwardly so. Keep the peasants happy and whatnot.

Zukustious

I don't like the whole I.Q thing. There's a lot more to being a good person than intelligence. A lot of "smart" people have no wisdom whatsoever. They see themselves as superior to those of less intellectual capability. In conclusion, I value wisom more than intelligence. Wisdom to me is more about being a good person than a smart one.

lordsippa

Yeah... y'see I don't actually judge people based on numbers they were given after doing a test. I judge people based on personal experience.

Crash

tbh anyone who doesnt get straight A's i dont talk to.

Sev

Surely anybody who's supposedly smart, is going to be tactful enough not to present such an obnoxious superiority. Intelligence must also include copping what best serves your own interests.

SOL

So what your saying is your stupid Sev ?

lordsippa

Actually Sev, what you just said was immensely ignorant. You can't judge someones intelligence based on how they view other people. Being arrogant is a trait of your personality, not your intellect. So don't look now, but your ignorance is showing...

Sev

You can't judge someones intelligence based on how they view other people.

I neither said or implied anything of the sort. I suggested that you could judge somebodys intelligence based on how they act in the presence of other people. Either way, to suggest I'm ignorant for thinking such is as much a personal opinion as was my original post.

Perhaps our definition of intelligence differs? My understanding of intelligence is as much a measure of one's overall cognitive capacity as it is their aptitude to make the best decisions in any context, whether it be social or purely analytical. The brain is a very complex organ, with many separate regions that deal with different functions. You could of course have a savant with a remarkable capacity to multiply large numbers, but is socially inept, or perhaps completely lacks spacial orientation. Obviously you cant tell strictly tell somebody's 'IQ' from their behaviour, but what Im suggesting, is that IQ is not a comprehensive measure of intelligence.

On the subjective of arrogance. One might believe themselves to be superior to everyone, but not have the need to show it. Surely confidence in oneself is the purest form of arrogance, its just an arrogance that you dont need to express. If so, I plead guilty.

Zillah

Intelligence is of course a multi faceted entity. I'll admit that sev has superior grasp of numerical and mathematical concepts than me, whereas he has no appreciation of poetry or things of a similar vein(dancing!). The reason an IQ test is so useful is because it is unbiased. For you to judge a person's intelligence by observation you must assume that both your perception and interpretation is perfect, which is unlikely.

I must come across as an unfriendly arrogant bastard to many but that doesn't mean I don't know how to befriend those people if I so choose. Perhaps it's a defence. By this logic you must therefore assume that if you dont like me it's because you have a bad personality

(I h4ve skillz)

p.pete

For me inteligence has lots of different facets, not all easily quantifiable. IQ tests measure one small part of inteligence, they totally ignore so many things that they really aren't that much use.

It's easy to quantify how good you are at maths, geometrical reasoning, grammer and all that. Things like physical inteligence, how well you can dance or play football, emotional inteligence, how well you get on with others, creativity, and lots of other things are harder to quantify.

This lack of quanifiability leads a lot of people to embrace things like IQ tests as acceptable measures of inteligence. In my opinion they only tell part of a much larger story.

GuanYin

I've thought about this, coz I test very high for IQ but I'm consistantly crap at written exams. I'd never consider myself especially intelligent but I I have a really good memory.

I can recall most things I read properly, but usually I don't fully understand something until I've recited it to someone else, or written notes on it.

I don't know where I'm going with this.... other than one day I'm sure the people I work with will find me out

Zillah

(N1 pete!) Someone else must find it funny that 'physical inteligence' firstly is spelt wrong and secondly, doesn't exist. Its just a combination of dexterity and spacial relations. 'Geometrical' relations also sounds very dodgy. Emotional 'intelligence' is more a matter of personality and demenour rather than a particular aptitude(unless your a manipulative and coniving bastard of course)

Skyeirl, you have whats known as an 'eidetic memory'(like 'photographic' but less total or visual). Your brain stores things even though you might not understand them yet. Hence why you need to process them by talking about or writing them before you properly assimilate the knowledge, rather than simply 'storing' it.

Green Hand Guy

I don't agree with the term multiple intelligences. I think it's more a case of multiple skills. I mean, physical intelligence isn't an intelligence, it's a skill.

And I have a pretty good memory too. I can remember some moments as early as when I was 1, like when I had a convulsion at 1 and 1/2. I can still remember being in hospital afterwards and my parents leaving me there. Mostly because I had nightmares about it for years after though.

Zillah

Lovely story, really

p.pete

Originally posted by phlematic
The reason an IQ test is so useful is because it is unbiased. For you to judge a person's intelligence by observation you must assume that both your perception and interpretation is perfect, which is unlikely.

I agree that IQ tests are useful because they are unbiased. Naturally it is almost impossible to gauge how good or bad we compare to one another at most things. With most things it is a case of somebodies interpretation as to who is better - which rarely amounts to something conclusive. So the IQ test provides something where everyone can sit down and answer the same questions and be given a mark based on their answers which can then be used for comparison purposes.

The IQ test is a very dangerous thing also. Due to the fact that most of our skills in life are difficult to quantify and also due to the fact that we like comparing ourselves to one another (I'm better than you:p ) the IQ test is given undue importance as to how we compare to one another. This over-inflated importance is mostly due to a void in acceptable comparisons for most of our other skill sets.

I may have spelt 'physical inteligence' wrong on my previous point, so to avoid this and to reduce it to Eddie Izzard I can refer to it as running, jumping and climbing trees. Some people are better than others at this - but it is hard to measure. Also some people are more creative than others - but it is subjective as to who produces the better paintings or the better stories. Memory is another thing that is hard to compare, as there are different kinds of memory.

There is an endless list of how we compare to one another and to hold up an IQ test and say "that one is gifted" and "that one should be put back in the oven until they're done" is ridiculous. Another point is some people test their IQ reqularly and are more familiar with the types of questions encountered. Practice makes perfect. Also some IQ tests are easier, some are shorter, some will be something else.

lordsippa

That's incredibly true. I knew a bloke who used to do IQ tests all the time (and brainteasers etc)... it's like crosswords - you get used to the kind of questions and they get really easy. It's the same reason teachers will advise you to do lots of past papers before your leaving cert. And on THAT note WHAT AM I DOING ONLINE?! <runs off to study>

Cait

Psychologist Howard Gardner identified the following distinct types of intelligence. They are listed here with respect to gifted / talented children.
1. Linguistic
Children with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.
2. Logical-Mathematical
Children with lots of logical inteligence are interested in patterns, categories and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.
3. Bodily-kinesthetic
These kids process knowledge through bodily sensations. They are often athletic, dancers or good at crafts such as sewing or woodworking.
4. Spatial
These children think in images and pictures. They may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing, building with Legos or daydreaming.
5. Musical
Musical children are always singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss. These kids are often discriminating listeners.
6. Interpersonal
Children who are leaders among their peers, who are good at communicating and who seem to understand others' feelings and motives possess interpersonal intelligence.
7. Intrapersonal
These children may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.

SOL

unless your a manipulative and coniving bastard of course

Lol, this is interesting, do you think that everyone around you is what they appear?

5. Musical
Musical children are always singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss. These kids are often discriminating listeners.

This is not intellegence, being artistically tallented isn't intellegence unless we change what intellegence means

IMO people have tried to tried to redefine the idea of intellegence because they cant understand it, and that which you cannot understand you fear, so you must change it,
next they'll be calling weightlefters physically intelligent until the word eventually becomes so contorted that its either forgotten and becomes taboo or a new one comes along

lordsippa

nonono... it's a case of saying "look at my son the jock. he's a retard." or "look at my son the athletic intellectual. he's talented." which would you rather say?

I could bitch about the Special Olympics but it IS a good thing, if overly patronising. I mean "SPECIAL" Olympics FFS. ok it's PC but... <mumble grumble mutter etc>

p.pete

Originally posted by SOL
IMO people have tried to tried to redefine the idea of intellegence because they cant understand it, and that which you cannot understand you fear, so you must change it,

IMO there has been an effort to broaden what we consider inteligence more based on the fact that it is not as easy to pin down whether someone is inteligent as we once thought.

It is more a case of people fearing a move away from being able to do straight forward test and be given a definite answer as to whether they are inteligent or not.

If you look up the word intelligence it is to do with understanding and quickness of understanding. I know I am slow at understanding or getting some things and quicker at others. So I would consider myself to be more intelligent at some things than others. The idea of seven or more intelligences makes lots of sense to me.

Crash

Originally posted by lordsippa
I could bitch about the Special Olympics but it IS a good thing, if overly patronising. I mean "SPECIAL" Olympics FFS. ok it's PC but... <mumble grumble mutter etc>

Actually its very un-PC really. i mean, the "Special" olympics is the worst ****ing name for it, its the ultimate way to indicate segregation.

PHB

I dont really think intelligence is measurably, i think you can get a general idea, but so many factors influence it, upbringing personality etc.

I think you can really only judge someone, if you really want to, based on their achievments.

Sure anyone can say, yeah im really good at chemistry, but until you go out and become an olympic silver medalist you're not really that great are you?

Sure you can say you're great at english, but until you get a book published or win some sort of competition then are you really that good?

Sure people can be really really smart and really really lazy, but I dont think that matters at all.

Who would you rather be?
The really really smart english guy, who sits at home in his basement all day, smug in the knowledge that he is smarter than the rest.
Or the smart english guy, who worked hard and now has a book deal

And there are different types of intelligence, but I dont think physical intelligence would really come into it. Unless physical intelligence is spacial relations in different words?

This whole topic is a really funny one espically considering that the people discussing it are meant to be studying for their leaving in a couple of days /me runs back

lordsippa

Don't be silly trying to deny that there is such thing as intelligence. Let's not bs here, some people are smart, some people aren't. Some people have other talents, some people don't. Some people have nothing. Fair? No. But it's life. It doesn't balance out. And bare in mind, those who win awards are people who have been scrutinised by others, who may not be capable of understanding the SUPERB GENIUS of another candidate. And if I write wonderful literature but decide not to have it published, or if it's too controversial or some such - am I less intelligent than Roy Keane cause he's had a book published <yes, ok he didn't write it himself but he contributed>?

So... yeah. Shut it. Right?

D-Generate

Dr. Roy Keane to you.

I love the way that on the fitness forum they would be argueing that physical intelligence exists whilst on this board all seem to agree that it doesn't, I however think it does. Intelligence in my opinion is knowing how to play the rules of life, knowing what to do to suceed. Haveing an incredible I.Q is pointless if you are a waster. To me someone who has worked hard to become physically great should get the same amount of credit as someone who is very clever and has used their smartness to their advantage. From what I can see of the people on this forum, a lot of you more than likely have high I.Qs but are just plain lazy. I have a lot more respect for the person in my year who saw a career in soccer and persued it and now has a contract with a top premiership club than all those who are smart and wasteing their talents

SOL

all those who are smart and wasteing their talents

Aliminator

amen brother.
time to go get us our silvers and golds in chemistry.
of course most intelligent ppl are wasters, they died in secondary schooling long ago. all that is left is their empty party hardy shell.
physical intelligence? wtf? not understanding what u mean?
do u mean as in perception of reality and the whole 11dimenson thing, or do u mean sporty?

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by foobar
Actually its very un-PC really. i mean, the "Special" olympics is the worst ****ing name for it, its the ultimate way to indicate segregation.

Also, all the ads, posters, etc. promoting the special olympics features only people suffring from Downs Syndrome. Don't other people participate in it? The wheelchair races I positively remember seeing in the special olymipcs, and there's probably a load of others.

Sangre

Originally posted by Barry Aldwell
Also, all the ads, posters, etc. promoting the special olympics features only people suffring from Downs Syndrome. Don't other people participate in it? The wheelchair races I positively remember seeing in the special olymipcs, and there's probably a load of others.

I thought they were in the para-olympics? Is there a diffrence?
I think the para-olympics is for the physically disabled, special is for the mentally disabled.

Btw, I think there is physical intelligence, just look at golfers/footballers etc..They are able to amazing things with their bodies, a golfer must have an amazing understanding of physics and the way the ball moves. Have you never watched some sport, seen someone doing something and just knowing no amount of practice could teach you that.

Imo thats what intelligence is, being able to do something better then someone else, even if they practice. Although you can improve your intelligence...(sorry I've explained it badly)

Also I think there is definetly linguistic intelligence.

purplepolkadot

quote:

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5. Musical
Musical children are always singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss. These kids are often discriminating listeners.

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those kids sound crazy, c'mon hearing noise other people don't hear, yeah...intelligent, drumming to themselves... and wtf is a discriminating listener?

weren't the special olympics called the paralympics a few years ago? (or have i gone crazy and started drumming to myself...) that was a better name. it didn't really mean anything. and don't start with latin translations because the general population probably don't know what paralympics mean, they know what 'speshal' olympics means.

(foreword: i work in a hotel)
(prologue: by dopey i just mean wankery prickish people. it has nothing to do with intelligence, unless you count cop-on and a teensy weensy little bit of assertiveness, aggressiveness or even just the cop-on to keep quiet as intelligence.)
(no offence to any dopey people, cos i know how easily you eejits take offence)

someone said earlier in the thread that they don't like it when people don't catch on and well, and just to say: I HATE DOPEY PEOPLE!!!
and i always show infinite patience and understanding towards them, without being rewarded by them finding their cop on.
and what's so frustrating is you can't correct them and point out their Often Astounding dopiness, even politely, cos god knows they take offence so easy but it's alright for them to say something really dopey and offensive to you, just because you're not dopey, and can stand up for yourself, and realise the results of saying offensive things.
dopey people get all the easy breaks.
i'm sure getting all offended by things that result from their own dopiness is their defence mechanism they use for survival.

and those people who repeat things you just say in slightly different wording cos they were all in space world and only half heard you so thought it was maybe their own original osea. and those people who do that and then claim it was Their Idea All Along. bastards.

those people who when you say 'how are you?' to their face WHILE LOOKING THEM IN THE EYES go 'how am i?!?!?!' and blink four times, and do that with every single question you ask them, even if it's 'hey john, is your name john?'. (eg. 'is my name john?!?!?!?!?)

they don't know what a SAUCER is: waitress, in her late forties (yes, that's Waitress, who does the job for a living, and hey, drinks a lot of tea, so she should KNOW) asked me what to put a toreen (metal dish thing, can't spell the word properly, that's the way you say it) on. i (going on sixteen at the time) said a d'oyled saucer. she blinked four times. i was carrying two crates of ballygowan at the time and was under physical impairment so i said 'see those saucers beside those cups...' she picked up a big plate. i said 'ah no, a Saucer'.
she moved the plate closer to my face, looking confused. i said 'y'know like a cup and saucer, like you're putting a SAUCE toreen on a SAUCER'. she still didn't get me, again showing me that she indeed knew what a plate was, and how she could move it. so i put down the ballygowan, and gave her a saucer.
she proceeded to ask me where to find the d'oyleys. i said 'in the big box there on the table that says 'D'OYLEYS'. she couldn't find it. i could see it from about fifteen feet away. she picked a dirty one off the floor about four sizes too big, wiped it on her blouse, and proceeded to earn just over twice as much per hour i do.
as i said before, dopey people get all the easy breaks, because the non-dopey people have to come to their aid and wipe up their drool, and give them their saucers.


and... /end rant.
(i'm normally a really happy bouncy person, but sometimes... *implodes*)

Sangre

You have serious issues.