IrelandOffline forum redesign.

Dangger

In an effort to keep the IrelandOffline forum a place for debate on discussing communications policies, government actions, and regulatory decisions relating to the development of Internet access in Ireland and also to provide a place for people to discuss problems obtaining Internet access for their homes or businesses we are proposing some changes:

The idea is to split the current forum into two forums, one discussing general policy issues and the other discussing individuals issues with getting broadband, flat rate, etc.

What we are proposing is two forums:
1. IOFFL - General/Policy Issues
2. IOFFL - Individual Issues.

We would like both of these to be in the 'Community' section of
Boards.ie, under an 'IrelandOffline' menu (similar to IDGC), i.e. out of 'Activism'. Both of these are important to IOFFL but we feel the need to split out the two types of discussion currently on the IrelandOffline forum. A reason for moving from Activisim is the amount of sub menu traversing that would be required to reach us.


The second forum, IOFFL - Individual Issues, should be a rename of the existing IrelandOffline forum and the existing URL (forum 60) should be preserved.

Here's how we'd like to see them under the boards heirarchy:

boards.ie/vbulletin > Community > IrelandOffline > IOFFL - General/Policy Issues

boards.ie/vbulletin > Community > IrelandOffline > IOFFL - Individual Issues

If possible, the http://boards.ie/IrelandOffline redirection should
point to the two forums under IrelandOffline category.

Details of the two forums follow:

Forum 1: IOFFL - Policy Issues
This is a forum for discussing relevant communications policies, government actions, regulatory decisions etc. relating to the development of Internet access in Ireland and the goals of IrelandOffline from the consumer's perspective. It is not an industry forum.

Forum 2: IOFFL - Individual Issues
This is a forum for discussing people's problems obtaining Internet
access for their homes or businesses. Issues such as cost, terms and conditions of services, customer care and availability n one's area are topics to be discussed in this forum.

We'd like to hear people's thoughts on these proposals.


David Long

Chairman IrelandOffline

ando

hmm, not sure. If the majority think it’s in the best interest of IOFFL, then sure no problem, but personally I'd prefare IOFFL to stick to one forum

PiE

Split the forum? Ooh I dunno... I like being able to come straight here, have a quick look for any interesting new posts and leave again.

Maybe it's because I don't read every single thread here, but I got the feeling there was a nice balance between the "policy" and "personal" threads. But then again, you've obviously put some thought into how you'd prefer the forum to be laid out and who am I to argue :]

Moriarty

I heartily endorse this product/service.

The signal:noise ratio on this forum has gone through the roof in the past 6 months.

shinzon

Yes i think that would be a good idea, itd be easier for people and media government types who come here to see exactly whats happening at a glance, rather than trawl through the entire forum as it is and to pick out releveant information pertaining to individual cases and or government initiatives etc


Regards

Shin

topgold

I like the single forum because it shows the reach of IOFFL but I also use my filters and don't feel obliged to read every thread and every post.

I'm looking for an RSS feed for IOFFL because that's the easiest way to spawn the message to editors and publishers.

BlackFlag

Forum was a mish mash already trying to find or am I posting in the right forums without a moderator jumping down our necks :rolleyes:

DeVore

Sounds like a smart move lads. Once its confirmed I can make whatever changes are agreed on.

Having the two topics together on the one forum hobbles both... If any main board generated the level of traffic IOFFL does we'd have split it a long time ago.

DeV.

iwb

You've got my vote too for the reasons stated already.
Although I do see why some would like to be able to go to one place only, it is very little extra inconvenience to check out both.
IMHO, it will improve the resource considerably.
iwb.

flav0rflav

Yes, good proposal.

I thought Broadband/Net/Comms were already more on the inidividual, specific issues, and here was about policy.

dahamsta

I can understand that IrelandOffline might want to split the forum because of outsider perspective (i.e. the 1mp0rtant people dat comes and looks at us), but, well, this isn't IrelandOffline's forum, it's ours. If the outsiders aren't happy with our base way of communicating, they can p1ss off. Purely from a traffic pov, I don't see it meself. It's busy, but I don't find it overbearing.

Just my 1c. I can't afford 2. Comms bills.

adam

DeVore

Hence the suggestion Adam, hence why its being discussed
I'll act only after community consultation. Its not a vote and I listen to some people a lot closer then others but I wouldnt make these changes without good reason and/or support from the community.

I'd also point out (with my tongue in cheek) that it isnt *your* forum either

Personally from my own POV... I hate to say it but individual cries of woe arent really that interesting to me... I hate to hear them sure, but they arent going to change anything. Targetting Policy-makers is the way to change things as we've seen so a separate forum focused on that will achieve that end faster and more efficiently. I dont want us to drown out our own message!
I say this as IOFFL member rather then Boards.ie admin...

DeV.

dahamsta

Hence the suggestion Adam, hence why its being discussed

Eh? Ain't that what I is doing?

I'd also point out (with my tongue in cheek) that it isnt *your* forum either

Hence my use of the word "our".

You're not trying to claim ownership of the collective outpourings of IrelandOffline members DeV, are you?

adam

flav0rflav

If only the power that DeVore wields could be in the wider world wielded.

Paddy20

Any IOFFL forum that allows active contributors more freedom of expression and reduces the Moderators tendency to be particularly intolerant. Has my support.

As I am tired of seeing *individuals views or questions being stymied simply because they are not pack followers.

Paddy20.

OHP

Personally I think its a great idea + it dont matter where IOFFL go im sure to follow


OHP

dahamsta

Originally posted by Paddy20
I am tired of seeing *individuals views or questions being stymied simply because they are not pack followers.

I'm tired of seeing certain *individual's views or questions being posted repetitively, and of the regular - and imagined - complaints about abusive moderators. All noise and no signal.

These *individuals are on my ignore list, and they still get in the *way.

adam

DeVore

Sorry Dahamsta, I 'm not claiming anything from IOFFL. I was mildly poking at your seemingly speedy election to "spokesperson" for the masses hehehh... nothing serious.

I agree with you that some posters post (read: rants) get in the way alright. I think IOFFL membership has two things to discuss:

1. Whats currently wrong.

2. What we're going to do about it.


Now from my very simplistic view and voiced as an IOFFL member thats how I see it.
Two major divisions struggling to co-exist in a single forum (with the latter seemingly suffering at the hands of the former).
Seems a no brainer to me but then I have suggested close enough to this idea before.


Anyway, we've given our 2c, I think we might be best letting others give theirs, I'll leave you the final comment

DeV.

mike65

A two forum approach sound sensible enough...its not like ppl will suddenly only ever browse one or other.

Mike.

dahamsta

Sorry Dahamsta, I 'm not claiming anything from IOFFL. I was mildly poking at your seemingly speedy election to "spokesperson" for the masses hehehh... nothing serious.

Obviously, but once again... eh? I don't know how you'd get that impression from my post. I stated a fact (that the IO forum is primarily for the members) and my opinion (that I don't think a split is necessary). I didn't think I was handing out orders, but if people will listen to them, well, I want some cake. Pronto, jump to it sonny.

1. Whats currently wrong.

There's several things wrong, but I think IrelandOffline's main concern is that a lot of professionals visit this forum and the discussion can often paint IrelandOffline in a bad light. I concede this point, because I know it's true. Which isn't the same as giving a flying intercourse with an undulating ring-shaped yummy cake.

2. What we're going to do about it.

I don't think splitting the forum will correct that though, I think it will just split the unflattering discussion into two. People will still come here to b1tch and rant, they'll just be doing it in one of two forums. Personally I don't see any harm, since I thought it was accepted some time ago that IrelandOffline was going to just disclaim the board as the members discussion area, and as such it was not their responsibility.

All of which is why I broke it down to the only thing splitting the forums /will/ solve, signal to noise:

"Purely from a traffic pov, I don't see it meself. It's busy, but I don't find it overbearing."

I suppose it could be said that I'm more tooled-up to deal with S-T-N than others, but still, I was just offering my opinion. Do you think I'm being a little too proprietary with the Activism forums DeV? Which reminds me of something I need to talk to you abouit...

By the way, when I saw the thread with "redesign" in the title, I thought we were going to be getting a spiffy new skin. Imagine my disappointment.

adam

Dawg

For what its worth, I would also heartily endorse a split in two forums. As mentioned before, the signal to noise ratio has been getting gradually worse.

spongebob

All the valuable points will have been made within the next 24 hours.

Decision by midnight weds.

Origilnal hyperlink http://www.boards.ie/irelandoffline to go to policy forum.

Ruthless modding in policy forum, I have no issues with the current mods/modding policies but they may feel free to exercise more editorial control in a sub forum where the qualiy of debate most be more coherent.

The justifiable blasts at Eircom and the rest, along with consumer grade discussion on your rights etc etc and where can I get type questions can remain in a 'Social and Consumer' forum with a far lighter modding touch...save for idiot flame wars.

Maybe bring in a new mod along with Dustaz and Sceptre for the social forum. Leave the policy forum under the control of mods who actually know the issues.

Make it so by midnight weds or else carry on as b4 and recycle this

My 2c

M

Dangger

This thread went up late on Saturday night.

Allowing for people who only view the forum on weekdays originally a cut off of Tuesday night had been set for a discussion, with a decision to be made public by Wednesday.

I know better than to let something like this run and run .

I'd like to add that although some have suggested the split was put forward because we are getting pernickity about who is viewing the forum it's not the case. I'm much more concerned about getting the excellent debate and constructive criticism back into the policy and legislation discussions for our own good, not for the sake of looking good. Several times, suggested actions have been investigated or carried out as a result of bubbling out of threads. We are also aware of the need for people to be able to enquire about and discuss their own difficulties in availing of broadband and flat rate services as they become available.

IOFFL are in a re-tooling phase right now. Shaping up for another prolonged bout ahead if you like. We've a few tweaks and changes we'll be putting forward over the coming weeks.

David

Trebor

I agree with the splitting of the forums as it will lead to a better discussion and also an area that can help with peoples individual issues.

Dustaz

***end thought period.


Ive been thinking about this since the thread went up and ive talked to a few people about it.

Initially i wholeheartedly agreed with Dahamsta in that diversity would cause a. more forums with s/n problems and b. prove to be too overwhelming. With more thought and logical reasoning though im starting to swing towards two forums.


A problem with boards.ie in general is that when a forum gets too topic heavy, the topic is split out into a seperate forum. When this happens too much the original forum becomes ignored with people only visiting the specialised forum (See the sports board for a good example of this). This is already happening with internet related issues - theres nets/comms, broadband and to a certain extent (often wrongly) the Ireland Offline forum. A second forum might only serve to confuse people even further and may detract from the focus.

HOWEVER...

I fully accept that the signal to noise ratio of this forum has increased exponentially with its popularity. The problem is that a lot of the 'off-topic' stuff is actually sorta, kinda interesting and 'on-topic' . Reducing the noise drastically (and certain posters here would find that none of their posts would make it thru) would actually reduce the latitdude to explore new topics.

The problem is that the genuinely interesting topics (FRIACO feedback, Contention Pools, Wireless progress) get lost in the noise. Maybe a seperate forum for these topics might be the way forward. Having said that, if im being completely honest, i think id prefer to see only that forum and not posts about eircoms line failures


All the above is my opinions as a member of ireland offline and not the moderator of this forum. This decision is up to the readership and the committee.

bk

As far as I can see there are generally three type of posts on the IOFFL forum:

1) A person having problems with Eircom / whoever and how can we help them (how do they go about contacting comreg, etc.)
2) What is happening with regards to broadband in other countries.
3) Long term policy and strategy.

All these type of posts are equally important, however I believe in the last few months the Long term policy and strategy discussions have gotten buried in a swamp of posts from people needing individual help.

This is unfortunate, while helping individuals who need help is very important part of what IOFFL do, it won't help us getting affordable broadband access in the longterm or help us to develop a competitive maket.

Therefore I believe it is a good idea to split the forums, this will allow us to continue helping individuals, while carrying out our long term plans in the other forum.

BTW this will also have the positive side effect that the mods probably won't need to be as heavy handed with moving threads in the existing IOFFL forum.

hmmm

Personally I've no problem with the current forum. Because of the nature of the forum (post rather than pre moderation), splitting it into two forums will not make it any more "professional" imo. I'd end up reading both forums anyway, so the question to me is who exactly will benefit from this?

If you do go and split it, I'm not sure with what you were saying in the first post - the policy discussion should stay at #60, as that is what most people will have bookmarked - we don't want some journalist who visits once a month to come back and find the forum has turned into a bunch of people moaning.

dahamsta

Originally posted by hmmm
Personally I've no problem with the current forum. Because of the nature of the forum (post rather than pre moderation), splitting it into two forums will not make it any more "professional" imo. I'd end up reading both forums anyway, so the question to me is who exactly will benefit from this?

Well, Dave's said that appearance isn't the reason for this, but you do create another concern, that is the risk of people heading straight for the individual issues forum and not spotting threads on important policy issues that they may have a very valid opinion on.

adam

ando

maybe, instead of jumping straight into 2 new forums, it should be tried out for 3 months, at the end of which a vote will be called to decide if it stays or we go back to the single forum

PiE

What about using one of those Sub-Forums, like the Sin Bin on the For Sale board?

Say, leave this forum for the good, interesting stuff while having a sub forum for the "Personal" problems? That way everyone will still come here; see/read the interesting topics while still being aware of the Personal board if they wish to hear the sob stories.

dahamsta

That's a good idea PiE. If IO simply /has/ to be split, that would be a more effective way of doing it. Plus the forums would retain their correct place in the Activism tree. (I still don't think there's a need, but the consensus seems to be in favour, and consensus rules.)

adam