Donegal Trial For New Broadband Delivery Mechanism, Tethered Balloons

Kramer

Originally posted by PeterG
one blimp can have upto 30,000 uncontended users. But what happens after that.....Dublin

What ya think they put up that big spike in O Connell street for then?

It's a big "blimp tether"

Should be able to tether 5 or 6 blimps to that big spike ww)

Paddy20

If you would really like to see this promising new technology, which already has a proven succesful track record in the States!.

Then why not encourage Scott Taunton and the UTV Internet team to immediately enter commercial negotiations with SkyLINC Ltd. Who are looking for ISPs to make use of thier plans.

Post your encouragement to UTVip under the thread * UTV insight interview with Scott Taunton!. On this page.


Before that abomination called Eircom, gets in on the action. Just too protect thier interests of course by holding everything up while maintaining the status quo.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Eh?..

Paddy20.

BigEejit

This all seems like a good idea ... but there are a lot of better ways to wirelessly get broadband in peoples houses ... I know people who are too far away from likely sites for transmitters wont agree but I can see too many hurdles (political and technical) for this technology .. i.e. it does not have a snowballs chance

Paddy20

BigEejit,

May I just quote *Muck!:- " They need only go to " Dermot Ahern " for ALL the Aviation and Communications permissions " !.
He then gets Comreg to allocate them with a slab of - Bandwidth - and off we go!..

So, what is wrong with that?..

As long as it is in this instance **UTVip, before some bunch of Cowboys.

Paddy20

Trebor

Originally posted by BigEejit
This all seems like a good idea ... but there are a lot of better ways to wirelessly get broadband in peoples houses ... I know people who are too far away from likely sites for transmitters wont agree but I can see too many hurdles (political and technical) for this technology .. i.e. it does not have a snowballs chance

there will be no political objections as long as they provide any ISP with access to the ballons and not just one as that would be uncompetitive(?)

spongebob

One must explain carefully to Eircom that 'unbundling' in this case does not involve the physical removal of a cable from the ground just because a Force 10 is forecast that night .

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by Trebor
there will be no political objections as long as they provide any ISP with access to the ballons and not just one as that would be uncompetitive(?)

Now there's an idea, if this all turns out to work as well as had been hoped after more testing, the government could launch 7 of these across Ireland, and resell capacity on the network to ISP's.

They could all be on one fibre network so only a single interconnect in Dublin would be required to cover the whole country. ISP's and telephone companies would of course have to provide the backhaul themselves -- all the government would be selling is capacity on the network.

It might just work.

Trebor

Originally posted by Urban Weigl
Now there's an idea, if this all turns out to work as well as had been hoped after more testing, the government could launch 7 of these across Ireland, and resell capacity on the network to ISP's.

They could all be on one fibre network so only a single interconnect in Dublin would be required to cover the whole country. ISP's and telephone companies would of course have to provide the backhaul themselves -- all the government would be selling is capacity on the network.

It might just work.

they could do the same for dsl if they could work up the courage to buy back the copper lines from eircom (compulsury purchase order if nessecary) and then provide the cables to ISP's at cost or if at a profit they could then use the money to upgrade the lines.

bk

Originally posted by Trebor
they could do the same for dsl if they could work up the courage to buy back the copper lines from eircom (compulsury purchase order if nessecary) and then provide the cables to ISP's at cost or if at a profit they could then use the money to upgrade the lines.

Buying back the network would cost at least a billion Euros, never mind all the problems with staff etc.

Giving SkyLINC some funding to setup a couple of balloons attached to the ESB network would cost orders of magnitude less. The 10 million they gave to Esat to unbundle just 40 exchanges would more then enought to cover the cost of this.

Trebor

Originally posted by bk
Buying back the network would cost at least a billion Euros, never mind all the problems with staff etc.

yes, but at least it would be money well spent and not just wasted on some comittee or report. and if they truly believe broadband to be economically viable then they should stick their(our?) money where their mouth is.

also then if we hit another celtic tiger type decade they could invest the money into upgrading the technology as oppossed to eircom just giving it to the consortium.

think long term

SkepticOne

Originally posted by bk
Buying back the network would cost at least a billion Euros, never mind all the problems with staff etc.

Giving SkyLINC some funding to setup a couple of balloons attached to the ESB network would cost orders of magnitude less. The 10 million they gave to Esat to unbundle just 40 exchanges would more then enought to cover the cost of this.

I agree with the general point here. No point in the state buying back a pile of soon to be obsolete copper wires and unionised employees. Rather, spend money where it will bring about the greatest benefit. If these barrage balloons were feasible, then Eircom would either compete or be destroyed.

Agree with Trebor also. No need to spend any more money on useless reports. The time for reports is long past. Now is the time for action.

Trebor

with regards to fibre.

will the govrnment be laying down fibre when it starts buling the new "hubs" and roads for the spatial strategy plan.

or will they as usual just build the road and then wait for a company to come along and ask to dig up the roads to lay the cables?

Victor

Eh, 1,500m is 5,000 feet, which is a navigation hazard. What part of the spectrum would be used?

Originally posted by dahamsta
Send up another blimp?

Actually not needed in Dublin, because of the availibility of mountains / hills for masts. Otherwise, there would be an element of this:

dahamsta

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I agree with the general point here. No point in the state buying back a pile of soon to be obsolete copper wires and unionised employees. Rather, spend money where it will bring about the greatest benefit. If these barrage balloons were feasible, then Eircom would either compete or be destroyed.

Agree with Trebor also. No need to spend any more money on useless reports. The time for reports is long past. Now is the time for action.

Damn straight.

adam

Trebor

Originally posted by Victor
Eh, 1,500m is 5,000 feet, which is a navigation hazard. What part of the spectrum would be used?
Actually not needed in Dublin, because of the availibility of mountains / hills for masts. Otherwise, there would be an element of this:

that would be soooo cool

but the thing about the mountains is that they are mostly on the south side which does not cover all of dublin, where as one of these ballons i belive would, if it was positioned floating about the city centre

bk

Originally posted by Trebor
yes, but at least it would be money well spent and not just wasted on some comittee or report. and if they truly believe broadband to be economically viable then they should stick their(our?) money where their mouth is.

also then if we hit another celtic tiger type decade they could invest the money into upgrading the technology as oppossed to eircom just giving it to the consortium.

think long term

Yes, but for a billion Euro, you could build a much better and more future proof network then the aging and splitter riddled phone network.

Fiber to every city and town in Ireland and then a comprehensive wireless/cable/ip over pwerline last mile technology hanging off the fiber.

This would give you a much superior network with almost unlimited (yes we are limited by light) capability for expansion (they are coming up with ways of transmitting data faster and faster over both fiber and wireless) and it would be far cheaper then buying back the phone network.

This would also give you the ability to expand the network in the future by extending the fiber to every neighbourhood or street corner and then having VDSL or very highspeed shortrange wireless (generally the shorter the distance you need travel, the higher capacity possible with wireless) to every home on the street.

Even further in the future (very long term), you could extend the fiber to every home.

The fiber rings project might actually make this possible, if it is rolled out correctly and managed well. Then we just need companies brave enough to build last mile services on top of it (possibly with government assisitance) and go toe to toe with Eircom.

These companies would need to be a new breed of young, fearless, dynamic, competitive and customer oriented if they are to exceed. I believe UTV, Netsource and the other wireless companies show some of the signs of being just these sort of companies.

The thing about the balloons is bang for your buck, you get a broadband network with very good coverage and speeds for minimal cost and very quick rollout. Plus no objections or delaying tactics possible from Eircom.

It would be best if this was done in such a way that the government helped fund its introduction in Ireland by SkyLINC and then they allow access to it by competing ISPs. In otherwords SkyLINC are just an infrastructure supplier.

Fergus

EIRCOM RESPONDS TO BLIMP BROADBAND THREAT

Trebor

but the cost and the hassle of building a network to rivial eircom would cost much more than €1b think of all the roads that would need to be dug up.

power cables should also be put underground could you imagine if they ran fibre along the lines and you look out you window to see some kid throw a ring/hoop at the wires to see them spark?

also the slow pase at which the govrnment seems to do any building would mean that it would take too long but if they had the already existing wire's they could upgrade them in stages, have afordable broadband within a year and not need to cause major traffic nightmares.

Gavin

As has been pointed out recently on the board, there is already a huge amount of fiber in place in ireland. The vast percentage of it, dark ! there is no need to go putting down more.

The real issue is, and always has been, the last mile, which needs to be made available cheaply and efficiently.

Gav

Victor

Originally posted by Trebor
but the thing about the mountains is that they are mostly on the south side which does not cover all of dublin, where as one of these ballons i belive would, if it was positioned floating about the city centre

OMFG! It has a range of 80km - thats most of the way to Mulligar, Dundalk and Gorey and you don't think it will reach the northside. Do you think the Liffey has magical power to stop radio waves?

Dustaz

ROFL fergus

wp

Trebor

Originally posted by Victor
OMFG! It has a range of 80km - thats most of the way to Mulligar, Dundalk and Gorey and you don't think it will reach the northside. Do you think the Liffey has magical power to stop radio waves?

sorry me not good at the whole distance thing but it would make a nice tourist attraction to have one attached to the spire

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Victor
Eh, 1,500m is 5,000 feet, which is a navigation hazard.

So are mountains, but luckily they are clearly marked on aviation charts. All high obstacles (masts etc) are clearly marked, as are places (like Lough Key) where ballooning takes place regularly. Also, there are high-risk exclusion zones (such as military exercise areas) clearly marked with red hatching.

Shouldn't be a problem.

Victor

Originally posted by oscarBravo
So are mountains, but luckily they are clearly marked on aviation charts.

Mountains are fixed, tethered balloons / blimps are not quite so fixed. No mountain in Ireland is more than about 1,036m (3,400ft).

MDR

v.funny fergus ....

spongebob

Originally posted by Victor
Mountains are fixed, tethered balloons / blimps are not quite so fixed. No mountain in Ireland is more than about 1,036m (3,400ft).

Anything up there higher than a mountain has radar so tell them to switch it on and make the blimp highly radar reflective.

Most movements thru Irish Airspace outside the Dublin Airport approach zone are transatlantic flights at a cruising altitude of 35000 feet so whats the problem?

M

ballooba

Originally posted by dahamsta
One of the points they give is that one blimp can have upto 30,000 uncontended users. But what happens after that?

Send up another blimp?

adam

More likely a bigger blimp with more equipment?

bk

Originally posted by Trebor
but the cost and the hassle of building a network to rivial eircom would cost much more than €1b think of all the roads that would need to be dug up.

But we are not talking about digging up the roads, rather we are talking about building fiber rings around towns and cities and supplying bb to people by wireless, no digging then and much, MUCH cheaper.

power cables should also be put underground could you imagine if they ran fibre along the lines and you look out you window to see some kid throw a ring/hoop at the wires to see them spark?

Emm, they have run fiber along the lines, this is the new ESB fiber ring.
This is over the high power lines between towns and cities. These pylons are very high up.

BTW power lines are insulated and even then, they would only spark if the ring/hoop was grounded.

also the slow pase at which the govrnment seems to do any building would mean that it would take too long but if they had the already existing wire's they could upgrade them in stages, have afordable broadband within a year and not need to cause major traffic nightmares.

Dream on, its not going to happen. This would cause the government to fall. Spend a billion on buying back a phone network you have already paid for, owned and sold, it will never happen.

ballooba

imagine if one of those balloons did come undone. It would float up into the atmosphere till the pressure caused it to burst. Servers and all sorts of cráp would come crashing down on the world.

Just realised that they would have neutral bouyancy or whatever and would just float around at the same level.

bk

Originally posted by Victor
OMFG! It has a range of 80km - thats most of the way to Mulligar, Dundalk and Gorey and you don't think it will reach the northside. Do you think the Liffey has magical power to stop radio waves?

Nope, the wireless technology most of the wireless companies are using can only reach about 10km at the very best.

I say you are thinking of the wireless technology that is licensed and which only Eircom, Chorus and Esat have the license to operate.

Plus a balloon greatly reduces the line of sight problems, as the angle of the signal would be closer to 90 degrees and therefore less chance of interference from surrounding objects.