New American Motto: The World is Not Enough

Hairy Homer

Get a load of this:

http://www.eet.com/sys/news/OEG20030522S0050

And remember, this is not some crusty environmento-socialist raving. This is the highly respected American trade newspaper for the electronics industry Electronics Engineering Times.

Either that or it's April the First somewhere stateside.

Hobbes

I'm not sure they can claim that. Maybe for thier own country but not for others.

It might have something to do with the EU setting up thier own system?

Sparks

This is probably in relation to the ESA getting a green light on Galileo, and the Ariane 5 booster also getting a green light (it's a serious economic threat to US launch companies).
Mind you, I don't think that they can follow through - "active measures" to deny NEO space to anyone else would be casus belli.

Lemming

Hardly surprising really that this is happening. Even before the neocons got their mitts on the US administration, NASA has always been extremely domineering in what happens in the skies above.

Sparks

NASA may be draconian in relation to US companies trying to build a private manned space program - they haven't been so bad on sattellite launches, and at any rate, there is an argument that their mandate allows them to do what they've done.
There's no such justification for preventing other nations having access to space.

Captain Trips

Or what about the moon and future space exploration? Will it be first come first served?

Should I start building a rocket with a flag on it and fire it off somewhere?

Sparks

Trips,
The moon and other celestial bodies and regions of space have the same legal standing as Antartica - in other words, no nation may claim them, but everyone can go there for scientific research.

If it's building a launcher you're thinking of, The X Prize shoud suit your tastes. Rutan's entry looks particularly good, as does Xcor's.

Chaos-Engine

Originally posted by Sparks
Trips,
The moon and other celestial bodies and regions of space have the same legal standing as Antartica - in other words, no nation may claim them, but everyone can go there for scientific research.

If it's building a launcher you're thinking of, The X Prize shoud suit your tastes. Rutan's entry looks particularly good, as does Xcor's.

ummm
After reading the article
Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy comes to mid
espcially Red Mars.

bonkey

Originally posted by Sparks
Trips,
The moon and other celestial bodies and regions of space have the same legal standing as Antartica - in other words, no nation may claim them, but everyone can go there for scientific research.

Y'uh-huh, but the article which sparked this off is basically someone arguing that such notions are tosh, and that the US should decide that it owns everything.

If someone like the US decided it was laying claim to the moon....exactly what would/could be done about it? Saying that there's a treaty they've signed saying they wont do something like that isnt much of a comfor these days

jc

Sparks

It gets worse bonkey - the US didn't just sign and ratify the Outer Space Treaty, they drafted the thing.

Mind you, they could be stopped - currently the Russians are the only game in town for manned spaceflight (with the chinese due to join the club in december). And the soyuz is the best manned spacecraft we (humanity) have (or have ever had for that matter).

bonkey

Yeah....I had to smile at the timing of this article...

Just after the US grounds its entire fleet, and uses a foreign system to return US astronauts to earth, an American suggests that it would be a good idea if the US controlled all of near-earth space and didnt let anyone else use it.

Hobbes

Originally posted by bonkey
If someone like the US decided it was laying claim to the moon....exactly what would/could be done about it?

Well they would have to remove the Chinese from it first. China looks like it's going to do a better job on the moon. You would think the US would go back since.

Sparks

Well they would have to remove the Chinese from it first.

And sooner than you think, perhaps :

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030528-092308-4284r.htm

Éomer of Rohan

Just another example of arrogant prick americans thinking they have a right to do what they want; something I am determined is rooted in the founding fathers myth. I sincerely hope the Chinese do very well in their space program - for two reasons; one, it may redress the balance of power, which is of course a good thing given that, for the sake of Europe and most of the rest of the world, the US cannot be allowed to run amok (anyone remember what Napoleon said of China? "Let China sleep for when she wakes the world will tremble!") and secondly, it will be good for scientific research - China will not be a nation that lands on the moon simply as a Cold War points scoring exercise; as that latter article substantiates, they may well be after the key to the Fusion reactor - and bingo there's the energy crisis solved within 20 years if this guy is right.

Lemming

Only thing is Eomer, China is expansionist and is not going into space for the betterment of all mankind. They're going into space for China.

That siad, there does need to be a counterpoint against the US. I just wish it weren't the Chinese first.

Éomer of Rohan

Are China expansionist? Think clearly about the Chinese over the past several thousand years; up to the days of the 'communists' the nation was kept on it's knees by every country - America, Britain, Japan, Germany, Czarist and the Soviet Russia, the Netherlands, Portugal and the Ottomans. Since the accession to power of the Maoist - Stalinists (to call them right), China has reoccupied all the territories that were formerly hers.....and then stopped. Now, their culture can be somewhat militaristic - especially given the vicious civil war being led by the Uighurs, but I would not say that there is enough evidence to say that China is expansionist. Designs on Formosa/Taiwan/ROC depending on your political viewpoint do not count - these are historically and culturally based; remember, Chinese existence is based on the philosophy that China is the chosen land of the Gods - and that her ancient borders are inviolate - hence the revulsion on both sides of the Straits of Formosa at the present state of affairs. That is to say that Taiwan will acquiesce and become part of China again - by choice, eventually.

Sparks

I'm not sure about china's expansionist policy, but if they are expansionist, it's a good thing from the point of view of the space program - and get this one correct, getting into space is too damn important to say "no, the chinese can't be the ones to go first because they might try to bully the rest of us into doing what they want".

That said, their human rights record does leave much to be desired. But then, let's face it, if we were to pick one nation to lead the program, it would have to be switzerland, and I don't think that they're asking for the job...

Éomer of Rohan

getting into space is too damn important to say "no, the chinese can't be the ones to go first because they might try to bully the rest of us into doing what they want".

That said, their human rights record does leave much to be desired. But then, let's face it, if we were to pick one nation to lead the program, it would have to be switzerland, and I don't think that they're asking for the job...

Agreed 100%

Captain Trips

I hate to do it after years of such phrases being banished from the net, but Sparks: me too!