Diving Solo

Cromwelly

I was at a small beach on Saturday and seriously considered diving solo for the first time. (a "wish I had my gear in the boot" kind of thing)

No complications, discussions, politics, had I snorkeled three times this year ? Did I have a current medical ? Had someone remembered to fuel the boat ? The DO's not here yet, the Cox overslept, we'll wait for thingy who said he'd be here, 12 up in a zodiac's doable etc. etc.....

Q1. Is there a danger that group diving can become too sanitised ?
Many physical sports have (I believe) more inherent risk/danger than scuba. Mountain climbers don't always climb in groups roped together with a support vehicle and radios.
Cyclists don't all ride tandems.

Q2. Is it ever safe enough to dive solo ?

Let's assume we're talking about a shore dive in calm waters up to 20m depth.

I know what the official CFT answer would be, I was more interested in peoples personal opinions and thoughts.

Mick L

Sure it's safe enough to dive solo...... until you get into a situation where you need a buddy!!

Could such situations happen on 'a shore dive in calm waters up to 20m depth'?? E.g. bad air fill, cramp, bad entanglement, blown O-ring at 20m, sudden and marked decrease in weather conditions, etc ,etc.

For me, I've trained to dive with a buddy and think the advantages of having a buddy far outweigh any issues with dealing with a group of divers.

Cromwelly

>bad air fill
Do you dive with a buddy who gets his/her fills from another compressor to you ?

>cramp
A cramp so bad you can't surface ? Is this really going to kill you on a shore dive ?

>bad entanglement
Agreed on this one, although I've read of entanglement incidents in the UK where both divers were lost.

>blown O-ring at 20m
Use an alternate air source, an octopus wouldn't be adequate for solo diving. I'm not convinced an octopus is ever adequate but CFT/PADI are happy with them so it must be so.

>sudden and marked decrease in weather conditions
If you can't predict that the weather will be good enough for the next hour or so what makes two people more able to do so ?

>For me, I've trained to dive with a buddy and think the advantages of having a buddy far outweigh any issues with dealing with a group of divers.

And that's great, you'd prefer to dive with a buddy, but just how much more dangerous would it be to dive solo ?
Diving on the East coast viz can sometimes be measured in inches, if your o ring burst are you certain your buddy would notice in time ? I think that's more dangerous than diving solo from a beach in good viz with a real alternate air source.

I'm not for a moment suggesting that diving solo is safer, I just wonder whether it really is that much more dangerous.

Jak

Well there is probably a greater risk of an incident with two divers than with one, but it all boils down to dealing with it, and a buddy is a better back up than none for every part of the dive, from early checks to surface to surface.

I'm into a lot of water based sports and activities and the bottom line is you can never 100% guarantee safety, but having another person around could make a difference. Weather can shift, currents could catch you, hell even a seal might belt into the back of you

I understand exactly what you mean though, and I have often thought to myself that diving alone would be almost easier ... but I've never really been too tempted.

In any case I mostly boat dive, and there is always a few involved with that.

daveg

Personally I would never ever dive on my own. My reason why -

One time I had problems with my mouthpiece whilst diving. I panicked a little and couldn't find my second regulator... I panicked more. My buddy gave me his second regulator and we surfaced.

You could take it that the moral of the story is my buddy saved me.... but seen as it was him that pulled my mouth piece out and broke it - which then caused the original problem (he was swinging his arms trying to balance) this is open to interpretation

Your buddy is there to help you out/back you up. Also don't forget if you start getting the bends your buddy is there to check your not acting "drunk" and heading off to the bottom of the ocean for a lie down.

Evil Phil

The boards.ie stance on this is that diving is a sport that should not be done solo. You need a buddy or you shouldn't be diving.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cromwelly
Q2. Is it ever safe enough to dive solo ?

I'm not a diver, but just reading this in your original post :

No complications, discussions, politics, had I snorkeled three times this year ? Did I have a current medical ? Had someone remembered to fuel the boat ? The DO's not here yet, the Cox overslept, we'll wait for thingy who said he'd be here, 12 up in a zodiac's doable etc. etc.....

... would make me inclined to say that you have already provided the answer yourself. Whatever about waiting for others, etc., not being concerned about points like the ones I italicised is just asking for trouble.

Even if diving solo were as safe as buddy diving, it could only ever be so if the precautions were as rigorous.

jc

Peace

Well in my opinion it really depends on the situation and experience of the diver we're talking about.

Dives in warm water such as the red sea and carribean are very relaxing and easy to do. I probably wouldn't religiously dive with a buddy in those waters. But saying that i certainly wouldn't be going in deco time and would indeed be aiming to surface with at least 80bar...just incase.

Diving solo in irish waters is a completely different story. I certainly wouldn't do it - but then again i'm not suicidal.

Buddies solve more problems than they cause (in most cases).

Cromwelly

Some interesting points made, I have the utmost respect for any diver who, having considered the issues, decides never to dive solo (or likewise to do so).

but...

The boards.ie stance on this is that diving is a sport that should not be done solo. You need a buddy or you shouldn't be diving.

Who or what on earth gives 'boards.ie' or you the right to make a statement like that ?
How did boards.ie reach this decision, did all the directors take a vote ?
How many of them are qualified to make a statement like that ?

I'm not a diver, but...

I'm not a bomb disposal expert but I'd cut the red wire.
Seriously though, the date of your last medical has nothing to do with your fitness to dive. Fuelling the boat doesn't apply to a shore dive.

There's too much blind reliance on rules and regulations and not enough thought being applied.

PADI actually recognised solo diving a few years back, not sure what their current position is but there are now courses aimed at those that want to. Interestingly the ones I've looked at insist on a high degree of experience beforehand. Funny how sensible some divers can be without having to consult a rule book.

Underwater photographers rarely dive with anyone so as to avoid interference with a shot.

vibe666

underwater photographers do it at their own risk, and they don't post messages in forums asking people if they think they should or not.

boards.ie have every right to decide what does and doesn't appear in the forums.

if someone here says yeah go ahead and dive on your own and you decide to do it and go and get yourself snagged and end up dead, someone is going to come looking for answers, and if the answer is that somoene here told you to do it then boards.ie could be held at least partly responsible for that, which would create one hell of a mess for them, which they neither want nor need.

Who or what on earth gives 'boards.ie' or you the right to make a statement like that ?

the same thing that gives newspapers and magazines the right to choose what gets published and what doesn't. it's up to them.

daveg

-- edit --

daveg

As I had one or two PM's about the locking of the thread I have re-thought it and have decided to re-open the thread. My only concern and the reason I locked it was for Cromwelly's safety. diving solo is in my opinion dangerous. However this is my opinion and as he correctly stated in a PM to me he would have prefered to have answered the concerns in the thread.

As the charter says we only want the information given here to be correct & safe. It is no reflection of your goodself cromwelly.

Cromwelly

Thanks to daveg for reopening the thread.
In return I've promised not to explain how to make a low cost scuba set from a Nato gas mask and a fire extinguisher filled from a Statoil garage air compressor.... whoopsy!

I'm not seeking advice on the issue of Solo diving, if you have to ask then you shouldn't even contemplate it. In my opinion nobody should ever take specific diving advice from a web forum. There are qualified instructors in the real world who will give advice freely. (It's not as easy to shut them up).

I'm really interested in the opinions of others as to the issues concerned. Even if you're ardently opposed to the concept of solo diving there might be benefit to be gained from the discussion. Take daveg's lost mouthpiece for example.

From what I can gather PADI's position on solo diving is that whilst they don't recommend it, they recognise that some will do it and then go about looking at making it as safe as possible. I like that kind of link with reality.

Next Week : Build your own Rebreather from a vacuum cleaner and the insides of four Toilet Ducks.

daveg

Originally posted by Cromwelly

In return I've promised not to explain how to make a low cost scuba set from a Nato gas mask and a fire extinguisher filled from a Statoil garage air compressor.... whoopsy!

Next Week : Build your own Rebreather from a vacuum cleaner and the insides of four Toilet Ducks.

Again our stance is the same. We don't recommend it but if you want to do it that up to you Me thinks not having a buddy will be the least of your problems

Peace

Now i konw i did say that in some circumstances it was maybe ok to go solo i'd like to clarify what i was muttering on about:

1) if you're going to do it you should have an awful lot of experience in diving. I'm talking you being the civilian equivilant of a navy seal.
2) you're kit should reflect the fact that there is no buddy - i dive with twin 12's with isolation manifold. I have a backplate + wings so rigging a stage is no problem.
3) there really should always be a second person. I'm talking about surface watch or someone on the other end of a mobile phone so that if they don't get a phone call by say 5.30 pm they're calling the chopper to go find you.

But seriously, which is easier...all the above or just getting a mate to turn up and go diving?

DISCLAIMER The above kit/procedures have been placed on boards.ie by a person who is NOT qualified in solo diving or has ever done a solo dive. The information may be incorrect so DON'T try this at home kids.

Next Week : Build your own Rebreather from a vacuum cleaner and the insides of four Toilet Ducks.

LMAO!!:p

Evil Phil

Actually I was just worried about boards getting sued. Its been discussed with the admins and there stance is that they aren't responsible for somebody being stupid and getting themselves hurt.

So I don't think solo diving is a good idea (but the topic has got the blood up with a few people ).

If you do go then make sure people know where you are, what you doing and what time you're due back.

/me runs and hides

Peace

[Sarcastic Comment] Thats it, i'm going solo diving RIGHT NOW![/Sarcastic Comment]

vibe666

Have I thought about it before? Yep.

Would I do it? nope, not unless it was essential that I did (saving somoenes life or recovering millions in treasure:D).

I think at some time or another, the isolationist in all of us has at least had a passing thought about diving solo. You know, the times when you go on holiday and get buddied up to some eejit with 10 dives under his belt who's in a new environment and wants to go racing off everywhere and keeps passing under you and falling over you all the time. You think, wouldn't it be nice if I was the only one here, an eejit free zone if you will. Me and the fish.

Then your 'O' ring goes and you're covered in bubb1es and you don't know which way's up, and all of a sudden that eejit is sticking his octopus in your gob, and when the bubb1es clear you realise you might have been a bit stuck without him.

Just a thought.

Not something that happened to me directly, but I've been on a dive with an assistant instructor (PADI) who had it happen to her and some guy who'd just passed his advanced open water cert the day before (who she was training) was on his first post cert dive shoved his second reg in her mouth without even thinking. It was only the start of the dive and she could have made it to the surface without too much trouble, but the fact that he reacted before she did says something I think.

Like I said, just a thought.

edit: why does it keep censoring the word bubb1es?

Jak

Aye, remember though he was only asking for opinions, not qualified recommendations. I'm glad you reopened it because it is an interesting area to discuss. Just update your disclaimer in the charter etc.

As regards being sued, solo diving is not illegal that I am aware of, so there would be no case. In addition there is no reckless comments, just discussion.

Anyhows,

I remember meeting a diver in the states in a dive shop who wanted me to buddy up with him to dive in an area, because it was restricted to "Buddy only diving".

He was a PADI diver, so what I read from it at the time was ..

a) PADI accept it in some manner
b) There is no general law in the states against it, except on private beaches.

This could be wrong, but certainly this guy had been solo diving a good bit on that holiday. Also even the PADI instructor who took me out to the kelp forests was just returning from a solo dive where he had gone to find someone's lost camera.

It happens a bit. Also this was in Monterey, so the water was just as cold as Ireland.

Personally I think solo diving in a climate like Ireland is not something I would ever do. However for some <20m dive in a calm warm water area, I can understand why someone might.

JAK.

daveg

Originally posted by vibe666
edit: why does it keep censoring the word bubb1es?

Something to do with the member búbbles... you know the guy who imported the Russian bride. If not do a search for Russian bride on after hours. Twas a very funny thread.

Cromwelly

At some stage we have all probably dived with 'buddies' whose experience and/or technique meant we were effectively diving solo.

If that notional O ring bursts at depth then I don't want to be relying on anyone. I'd rather assume my buddy is otherwise engaged with that brightly coloured octopus* and won't notice.
Of course if they're there and can help then that's a bonus.

I don't know why more emphasis isn't placed on self sufficiency and redundant air sources by the powers that be. It doesn't cost a huge amount more to achieve.



*For East Coast diving insert 'novelty condom' where applicable

Smiler

Originally posted by Cromwelly


*For East Coast diving insert 'novelty condom' where applicable

That is so true
Diving on the east sucks

vibe666

if I had the money to get back into diving, I'd make sure I had a a 3l buddy bottle for emergencies anyway. in most cases that would negate the need for a buddy anyway.

The PADI philosophy is that you should ALWAYS dive with a buddy, no exceptions, but from the trainign they give you, your buddy isn't much more than a spare air supply anyway.

In reality they are more than that: spare air, spare eyes, spare brain in case you get narc'd etc. but it all very much depends on how good your buddy is at being a buddy, and visa versa.

I learnt to dive and did my divemaster apprenticeship with the same guy right the way through. we were buddies on probably 70+ dives altogether, and we were a very good buddy pair, as well as best mates out of the water, so it worked very well for us to the point where we could almost have a conversation in the water and know what the other was going on about.

oh, the good times.

anyway, like I said, it all depends on who it is.