should all drugs with potential recreational abuse be illegal or prescribed

rubadub

drugs have been used by mankind for thousands of years, prescribed by doctors and self administered. only very recently, in the last 100 years, has most drug legislation come about. but has it gone far enough? there are still people using drugs for non-medicinal purposes. should this be outlawed? what about drugs which have both potential for recreational use and medicinal use such as heroin. should these drugs be outlawed completely if there is an alternative available, which there usually is. recreational drug use is costing the economy a fortune due to loss of productivity from people working with withdrawl symtoms, withdrawl sick days, hospital beds for self inflicted drug use victims. in the interest of public health should self administered drugs be outlawed? should all drugs be available by prescription only?

seamus

Outlawing most things which can be used as recreational drugs will only spur people on to find more ways of getting. To quote Trainspotting;
"We'd have injected Vitamin C if only they made it illegal".

There are also plenty of over-the-shelf things which can be processed into drugs, and which can't really be banned.

Bananas and Cinnamon for example, can both be used to make narcotics. If other drugs became unavailable, the amount of people processing household goods into drugs would skyrocket.

growler

recreational drugs create an economy in themeselves, countries like Morocco, Afghanistan, Colombia are almost wholly reliant on illegal drugs to keep any currency coming in.

personally i belive they should all be legal and let individuals make their own choices, but i hate the idea of them being taxed, so I am reasonably happy with the status quo now (in UK) where you're not bothered by cops , dealers drive bmw's and its generally socially acceptable (amongst my peers at least)

bringitdown

For an interesting expose on the most widely used recreational drug and the economies therein read:

Reefer Madness: Sex, Drugs, and Cheap Labor in the American Black Market by Eric Schlosser

(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0618334661/qid=1054905614/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-9423714-2639911?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

rubadub

Originally posted by growler
but i hate the idea of them being taxed

almost everything you buy is taxed! not to the extent of drugs though. you should be free to produce your own without tax, like beer.

most people are focusing and referring to already illegal drugs. i am asking should ALL recreational drugs be made illegal even if the have medicinal use. including amyl nitrate, caffeine, nitrous oxide, diamorphine, ethanol, guarana, nicotine etc

bringitdown

alcohol?

rubadub

drinking alcohol is ethanol. there is no reason for it to be legal though as methanol and isopropanol and other solvents can be used industrially. its can be used medicinally as a treatment for methanol poisoning. substitutes can be found for it in most other uses

bringitdown

-= I have 10 seconds before I go out into the sunshine soo ...

Sounds like control on that kind of scale would be tending toward a nanny state.

I am a believer in self restraint (however nieve this may be).

I would be more interested in seeing resources invested in education than in prohibition....

bonkey

Originally posted by rubadub
i am asking should ALL recreational drugs be made illegal even if the have medicinal use.

First of all, could you define "recreational drug"?

If you are including caffeine, then the term "recreational" is taking on an entirely new meaning. Are you talking about any substance which has a phsyical or phychological effect, period?

Ultimately, though, I'm pretty sure that regardless of how you would answer that, my opinion wouldnt change....the answer is no - all recreational drugs should not be made illegal.

Why? Because society couldnt function without them.

Virtually every complex hydrocarbon on the planet can be used as a recreational drug.

So....better make petrol, diesel, natural gas, and all of those things illegal. I dont care that you need them for power generation, transport and the rest....they can be used as recreational drugs, so we need to take them out of the hands of people.

And plastics....well, they're just more complex hydrocarbons. Burn them, inhale the smoke....off you go. Out, out, out, vile demons of recreationalism....

So...ok....maybe we could do that...and outlaw all the natural plants that could be used as recreational drugs too (bananas, cinammon, nutmeg....the list goes on)

Oh - and lets not forget sugars - better make them illegal too as they could be used as recreational drugs.

What? Your body needs sugars to live? Tough crap buddy...someone could use these as recreational drugs, so they're out. Evolve or something.....

Not gonna happen....you can never remove the drugs from society. You might be able to say that the taking of them is illegal, but then you need a good reason. Why should coffee be illegal? And all the rest of them....what reason is there for making them illegal?

jc

seamus

Originally posted by bonkey
What? Your body needs sugars to live? Tough crap buddy...someone could use these as recreational drugs, so they're out. Evolve or something.....

ROFL

Drugs are another one of those things that have become immoral and wrong since religion took such a tight hold over the last couple of hundred years.

Narcotics, drugs, recreational highs, etc are older than humanity itself. Just like prostitution, they've been around long before we were born, and will be around long after we're gone. IMO, a lot more damage is done to people by giving drugs this 'evil' label, refusing to give an unbiased education about them to kids, forcing people to take them in back alleys, and forcing them to be processed/made in basement labs with no proper controls or standards.

Executive Steve

pfffft. listen, all that the entire war on drugs and oppressive dictation of what you are and are not alowed to swallow for a bit of a giggle has achieved is that drugs are now cheaper more readily available and of a consistently higher quality.
when i started taking pills they cost ten pounds. these days they are four to five euros, if youre expecterd to pay for them at all. keep them illegal, i couldnt afford to take them otherwise.... and with the irish governments really really clever kow towing to the irish vintners federation beer is going to get soooo expensive that ppl are going to be forced into taking drugs by sheer lack of the money for a few pints.... bertie ahern is forcing us to get hammered on class a's somebody give him a medal!

vorbis

I think the only effective control can be achieved through taxation. Legalise the whole lot of them. Then slap heavy taxes on them. Some people will continue to use them. However the increased price will bother a lot of people more than the notion the stuff will kill them. Obviously there is then the issue of smuggling. Law enforcement in legalised supplier countries could be forece to deal with this.

Éomer of Rohan

I think drugs are a gift. I have never used drugs in my life - apart from alcohol if you want to be pedantic - but many of my friends use them.

Legalise ALL of them; crack cocaine, heroin, cannabis whatever and tax them if you want and make sure that there are laws regarding where they are used - hell provide public facilities paid for by taxes from the sale of drugs. The smart people won't take them, the idiots will and boom we have accelerated natural selection for the benefit of society

mike65

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
Legalise ALL of them; crack cocaine, heroin, cannabis whatever and tax them if you want and make sure that there are laws regarding where they are used - hell provide public facilities paid for by taxes from the sale of drugs.

Here! Here!

The best way to deal with the drug issue is too legalise and tax
them, remove the profit motive from the underworld. Of course no one is going to actually do this here or in most countries but its the only policy that makes any sense.

rubadub mentioned the costs of medical treatment to those under the influence, part of me would deny them services but only to a degree. Drunks and druggies taking up space in A&E is a disgrace but they should'nt be completely abandoned to the streets either. Maybe a tarrif could be leveied on those who are found to be abusers of drugs be they legal or not.

Mike.

Gorgeous George

Prohibition of anything means that only criminals will supply it. Booze in the US in the 30's, heroin in the 21st century. That said heroin, LSD and such drugs are dangerous and need to be controlled but in a better manner than at present. Banning hash and grass is ridiculous. They are probably less harmful than alcohol.

rubadub

Originally posted by [cm]tyranny
pfffft. listen, all that the entire war on drugs and oppressive dictation of what you are and are not alowed to swallow for a bit of a giggle has achieved is that drugs are now cheaper more readily available and of a consistently higher quality.
when i started taking pills they cost ten pounds. these days they are four to five euros, if youre expecterd to pay for them at all. keep them illegal, i couldnt afford to take them otherwise.... and with the irish governments really really clever kow towing to the irish vintners federation beer is going to get soooo expensive that ppl are going to be forced into taking drugs by sheer lack of the money for a few pints.... bertie ahern is forcing us to get hammered on class a's somebody give him a medal!

there is no war on drugs. you cant go to war against inanimate objects. it is a war on people. governments are at war with their own citizens who wish to alter their state of conciousness. its as cheap to do cocaine as to go drinking in dublin. 1 hours work at minimum wage will get you the price of a single pint or 1 ecstacy tablet or 1g of cannabis, soon alcohol will be seen as the drug of the rich.

rubadub

Originally posted by bonkey
First of all, could you define "recreational drug"?

If you are including caffeine, then the term "recreational" is taking on an entirely new meaning. Are you talking about any substance which has a phsyical or phychological effect, period?

Ultimately, though, I'm pretty sure that regardless of how you would answer that, my opinion wouldnt change....the answer is no - all recreational drugs should not be made illegal.

Why? Because society couldnt function without them.

Virtually every complex hydrocarbon on the planet can be used as a recreational drug.

So....better make petrol, diesel, natural gas, and all of those things illegal. I dont care that you need them for power generation, transport and the rest....they can be used as recreational drugs, so we need to take them out of the hands of people.

And plastics....well, they're just more complex hydrocarbons. Burn them, inhale the smoke....off you go. Out, out, out, vile demons of recreationalism....

So...ok....maybe we could do that...and outlaw all the natural plants that could be used as recreational drugs too (bananas, cinammon, nutmeg....the list goes on)

Oh - and lets not forget sugars - better make them illegal too as they could be used as recreational drugs.

What? Your body needs sugars to live? Tough crap buddy...someone could use these as recreational drugs, so they're out. Evolve or something.....

Not gonna happen....you can never remove the drugs from society. You might be able to say that the taking of them is illegal, but then you need a good reason. Why should coffee be illegal? And all the rest of them....what reason is there for making them illegal?

jc

-by drug i mean any substance substance other than food intended to affect the structure/function of your body. by using a drug recreationally i mean it is used solely for enjoyment with no conciously desired medicinal benefits, any medical benefits are coincidental. conversely if a cancer patient is using cannabis medicinally and in doing so enjoys the high, then i do not consider that recreational use. i dont condsider paracetomol a recreational drug, however the readily available antihistamine drug diphenhydramine can and is used recreationally at high doses. caffeine is used by many recreationally in combintation with ethanol and taurine (vodka+redbull), high doses of caffeine talbets are also used as a subsitute for amphetamines.

i agree with everything in your post. i am all for relegalisation of all plants. i find it interesting that nobody in this thread has called for any legal drugs to be illegal. yet in any threads about cannabis there many quick to condemn it and agree it should remain illegal. i have never understood why most anti-drug campaigners focus on drugs which are already illegal instead of campaigning for illegalisation of the more harmful drugs still out there. your post perfectly illustrates the absurdity of making nature illegal. there actually are people calling for refined sugars to be made illegal. if society can tolerate such a socially destructive drug as alcohol and the most addictive substance known, nicotine, then surely it can withstand ANY other drug being legal without crumbling. if crack was legal i wouldnt smoke it just like i dont smoke tobacco. we have many groups trying to protect endangered species of plants and animals, and then governments trying to completely eradicate other species to serve their own agendas. in this thread so far nobody has, and i doubt anybody will come up with a good reason to make all recreational drugs illegal.

bonkey

Originally posted by rubadub
i agree with everything in your post. i am all for relegalisation of all plants.

Just to clarify....agreeing with my post, and being all for relegalisation of all plants are two seperate points, yes?

Because relegalisation of all plants is not what I'm arguing at all. I do not subscribe to a "legalise everything, and let people make their own minds up" approach.
I believe there are good and solid grounds for certain activities to be illegal - including the consumption of certain substances.

However, I fully agree with the sentiment that where the line drawn today is wrong, how the system works (or rather - doesnt work) is far from the ideal.

I was just arguing that the reaction of "illegalise everything" - which is one we see and hear about from time to time - is an unworkable solution. Its not a binary issue. "Legalise everything" and "Illegalise everything" are not the only two possible solutions.

jc

Rolo Tomasi

There is also a problem with prescribed and over the counter drugs being abused. One of the most commonly abused drugs in Ireland is solpadeine.

http://www.solpadeinehelp.org.uk/

Making a drug illegal or prescribed is a short term fix for the problem. A token gesture by a government as a show of its stance on the drug issue but never tackles the social ills that lead to a drugs/crime epidemic.

Executive Steve

listen either you take the view that its an unnatural urge to want to get off your face and people who wish to should be criminalised and penalised

or

you take the view that its none of your business and society should endeavour to create space for everyone to run their life and do what they want as long as it doesnt intrude on other peoples enjoyment of their life....

i fail to see how my drug use affects anybody in a negative way...

bonkey

Originally posted by [cm]tyranny
i fail to see how my drug use affects anybody in a negative way...

OK...but stop being selfish and talking about your drug use, and talk about "drug use in general".

Law is typically made for society, not the individual, so we should be looking at the societal effects of drugs, not the individual cases.

Do you deny that drug abuse / addiction has a majorly negative societal effect???

jc

seamus

Originally posted by [cm]tyranny
listen either you take the view that its an unnatural urge to want to get off your face and people who wish to should be criminalised and penalised

or

you take the view that its none of your business and society should endeavour to create space for everyone to run their life and do what they want as long as it doesnt intrude on other peoples enjoyment of their life....

No....I'd be in between. Just like alcohol, there should be more relaxed policies, but at the same time, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Take something highly addictive, Cocaine for example. If that was legalised and made freely available, suddenely massive amounts of people coming out of college are coke addicts, and the economy begins to suffer cos all the young people spend their money on is coke.

I accept, and participate in the whole wanting to get high thing, but to just allow people to do what/as they feel like, is condemning any society to death.

rubadub

Originally posted by bonkey
Just to clarify....agreeing with my post, and being all for relegalisation of all plants are two seperate points, yes?

Because relegalisation of all plants is not what I'm arguing at all. I do not subscribe to a "legalise everything, and let people make their own minds up" approach.
I believe there are good and solid grounds for certain activities to be illegal - including the consumption of certain substances.

However, I fully agree with the sentiment that where the line drawn today is wrong, how the system works (or rather - doesnt work) is far from the ideal.

I was just arguing that the reaction of "illegalise everything" - which is one we see and hear about from time to time - is an unworkable solution. Its not a binary issue. "Legalise everything" and "Illegalise everything" are not the only two possible solutions.

jc

yes, 2 separate points, sorry for any confusion. i do not think every drug should be legal to every person who wants them, there should be restrictions. you shouldnt be able to go to a chemist and buy sarin gas or 10,000 doses of LSD (1 gram). but i dont think the decision on which drugs are to be legal should be influenced by interested parties such as politicians, vitners associations, tobacco producers, economists, industrialists. the reason cannabis was made illegal in the US was because hemp was a major threat to US chemical companies, nylon could not sell when hemp fibres were available. the sulphuric acid industry (which is huge) would have lost massive amounts of sales to the paper industry if hemp was used for paper. i do think making plants and/or animals illegal is absurd and no species should be allowed to eliminate another in a totally unnatural way, be they visionary plants, mosquitoes or psychoative fish. as for synthetic and processed drugs, i believe criteria should be drawn up by a medical organisation such as the WHO. EVERY drug needs to be re-evaluated with these criteria to determine if it is safe or not. if paracetomol was discovered today it would not be legalised. many common legal drugs would be illegal and vice versa. it may help people to look at drugs in a fundamental way and not what culture, tradition and propaganda has led them to believe. new drugs/plants are discovered every day. the plant salvia divinorum was recently made schedule 1/class A in australia and the US may follow suit.

BTW the alleged drug in bananas bananadine/banadine is a myth. it is a myth so sucessful that it actually made it into several respected toxicology books, causing many red faces.

growler

1 gram of LSD !!!
i shudder to think what that would do to the human brain , probably quite similar to what sarin would do i expect