Upgrading gaming rig

TheDuke

Hi guys,

my gaming machine is starting to age although only in the todler years.

It's a 1.8MHz Pentium - 256 DDR RAM and (266MHz I believe) and a GeForce 2 - 64MB.

I am kind of half thinking of juicing it up a bit by upgrading it to 512 MB (which at €80 is quite resonable) but I am not too sure if it is worth going for another graphic card just yet - I am looking at the GeForce 4 Ti4200 - 256 MB, but at €260+ it is a bit pricey and I am not sure if it is really worth it.

Note: I am to 96.8% (heading toward 99% ) an on-line gamer - only play single player for training.

The Duke : ))

Matt Simis

I presume you mean FX5600 and not Ti4200?
There are some nice 5600 Ultras coming out, sometimes with very little price differ (under a tenner) for the 256MB vs 128MB versions, go for the 256 if its that close.

In the ATI front, you have 9500s, which are being replaced with slower 9600 cards. Both are pretty decent, but if you have an nV card now, you might like to stay with them and go FX.


Matt

Retr0gamer

Definitely upgrade your Ram. It's so cheap now that it's criminal not to. I'd definitely get yourself a Geforce 4 or the new ATI Radeon cards. It will give a huge boost in speed. Just don't try to save money and buy an mx version of the card. Your card is what is slowing your computer down the most (I should know, I've a decent machine but a crappy Geforce 2 mx). If you upgrade these then you shouldn't need another upgrade for at least a year (or if you want to play doom 3 at it's best).

eyerer

i agree, stick in another stick of memory and upgrade the graphics card

i recently upgraded from geforce 2 to geforce 4 ti4200, for around €100, i'm not dissapointed, i get over 8000 more marks on 3dmark 2001

my 512 memory has never let me down

your processor ain't to bad, i'm running a 2100+ and have no complaints

urban Ninja

goto www.komplett.ie. There you can get hardware cheap. Its delivered by DHL 2 days later.

I upgraded my PC a year ago with a GeForce 4 TI4400 from them. I got it for the price Peats were charging for a GeForce 3

Praetorian

Extra Ram and a new(ish) Graphics card for definite. Your processor is fine. I recently came to the conclusion that CPU upgrades are almost pointless :eek:

BKtje

I also got an 1.8ghz (amd tho so that helps ) 512mb ram and an 9700pro.
Can run evergame perfectly.

(still not happy tho, gonna get new processor )

Quigs Snr

Your processor is fine for todays games. It won't hurt to add another 256 RAM, about 30 Euro on Komplett.

Your grpahics card is killing you.

On a budget get the Creative Labs GF4 Ti4200 for about 120 Euro on Komplett.


If you upgraded your processor to a 3GHZ and put in 1GB of RAM it would not have a quarter the effect on your games that upgrading that GF2 to a GF4Ti would have. Thats a fact.

magick

i have the exact same system
1.8 gig
64 mb graphics card
but i did upgrade mine not too long ago to 512 ram and it really does make a difference , but i still get some probs with bf1942, though personally i think its my grapahics card that causing it, its a 64mb ddr mmx 440 gforce 4 .

TheDuke

thanks for all the great feedback.

I find it amasing how much of a game now-a-days runs on the graphic card. I'll go for a GeForce 4.

Is there any point in upgrading from a GeForce2 64MB to a GeForce4 64MB (doesn't sound right ) - I would really only consider a move to 128MB card.

Also, there are a few extension MX440SE and TI4x00. I prsoume the TI is the better.

There are a few producers offering a nvidia based card, Asus, Creative, Gainward, etc. - is there any best offering - someone mentioned Creative as being good.

Some of these cards support AGP 8x. I know my system when I purchased it (indeed the real reasons why I finally had to dump the old one) is that it could support an AGP 4x card. What is required to support AGP 8x (is this a motherboard/hadware thing) ?

The Duke : ))

Matt Simis

Unless you get it at a very good price, Id stay away from DX8 cards (GF4 Ti's) in the era of DX9. nVidias entire range from its sub $99 cards to the $600 topends are DX9 compliant, its effectively the minimum spec now. Buying DX8 hardware just doesnt make sense.

Id still recommend an FX 5600. Komplett have some Ultra models for under €220!



Matt

Retr0gamer

There really isn't much difference between the different makes of Geforce cards and all have about the same preformance. look up some reviews of the one you want and you can't go wrong. I wouldn't get a Geforce 4 MX though. They are slower than most Geforce 3's. I'd go for an ATI Radeon before a Geforce 4.

TheDuke

I am sure you know what you are talking about Matt...

I prosume you mean DirectX8/9.

AGP is a high speed hardware bus between the graphcis card and processor/memory. I know that x4 is "four times as fast as the first AGP" (correct me if I am wrong) but how do I know if my hardware can support a x8 card (doe I need another motherboard - faster memory - although I have DDR @ 266MHz which I prosume fast (it's been a long while since I meddled in hardware and I remember a 133MHz memeor chip being so out of this world).

The Duke : ))

TheDuke

sorry Matt, I meant to say "I am not too sure what it is you are talking about" - just read it and it looked like a "dig" which of course was not intended.

The Duke : ))

Matt Simis

Originally posted by TheDuke
I am sure you know what you are talking about Matt...

I prosume you mean DirectX8/9.

AGP is a high speed hardware bus between the graphcis card and processor/memory. I know that x4 is "four times as fast as the first AGP" (correct me if I am wrong) but how do I know if my hardware can support a x8 card (doe I need another motherboard - faster memory - although I have DDR @ 266MHz which I prosume fast (it's been a long while since I meddled in hardware and I remember a 133MHz memeor chip being so out of this world).
The Duke : ))

Originally posted by TheDuke
sorry Matt, I meant to say "I am not too sure what it is you are talking about" - just read it and it looked like a "dig" which of course was not intended.

The Duke : ))

Heh, np.


Yeah, dont touch MX cards. AGP8x cards will run in AGP4x motherboards, so as long as you have that you should be fine.

Yes, I am refering to Directx9. Games that support DX9 are forthcoming and will look and run better on DX9 class cards. Geforce FX and Radeon 9500 (and above) are DX9. Geforce4 Ti and all Radeons under 9500 are DX8. Geforce 4MX's are DX7.

Since there isnt that much in the price difference between DX8 cards and DX9 cards, go for a DX9 card. I wouldnt recommend the lowest end DX9 card however, the FX 5200. The midrange card, the 5600 is much nicer.



Matt

TheDuke

thanks... so what you are saying Matt is that the FX is a later version which supports DX9 and the TI does not (correct?)

There is a Creative 3D Blaster 5 FX5200 Ultra - graphics card - GF FX 5200 Ultra - 128 MB on Kopmplett at €170. - should do the trick. I will stick with nVidia for religous reasons... it would be blasfomous to move to ATI

The Duke : ))

TheDuke

I am not comming accross a particularly smart here

I re-read the our earlyer message and it answers all of the q I just sent. :rolleyes:

I think I'll go away, have a sleep and come back .... was up gaming till all hours last night.... AGAIN.

The Duke : ))

eyerer

i'd avoid a 5200, actually i did avoid it, i instead got a ti4200
on a tight budget, it was the card for me
depends how much money you have, the minimum DX9 i'd go for is the new 5600 ultra

about 64mb and 128mb cards, there is little difference in performance. 128 cards have a lower clock speed which means unless you overclock it it will run slower than the 64mb
in the highest of resolutions the 128 card may offer more performance, and may be more future proof

leadtek, gainward, creative all solid brands with good overclocking
the creative is cheapest as they skimp on the bundle, which may suit you

i couldn't find a comparable radeon for anywhere near the same price as the geforce

TheDuke

guys... you have made my week.... and it is only Wednessday

Thanks for the brilliant info cause I would have probably bought a load of CRAP had I gone out on Monday.

I'll go for a 3D Blaster 5 FX5200 Ultra (128MB) and 256 DDR RAM, which come to a budget of just over 300 e's. :cool:

The Duke : ))

Retr0gamer

You can be smug in the knowledge that you now have the recommended spec for HL2.

I on the other hand have not. I have a 1.2 with a 512 ram and a crappy geforce2 mx. Don't know wether to get a new Graphics card or processor. Don't know if I can afford both. Just want to play HL2 the way it should be played and not like years ago when I played HL on my P100 and 320x240

Matt Simis

Originally posted by TheDuke
guys... you have made my week.... and it is only Wednessday

Thanks for the brilliant info cause I would have probably bought a load of CRAP had I gone out on Monday.

I'll go for a 3D Blaster 5 FX5200 Ultra (128MB) and 256 DDR RAM, which come to a budget of just over 300 e's. :cool:

The Duke : ))

If you havent bought anything yet, can I just reiterate my suggestion:
"I wouldnt recommend the lowest end DX9 card however, the FX 5200. The midrange card, the 5600 is much nicer."

The Creative 5600 is only €20 more than the 5200. Its not in stock tho, but some other (slightly more expensive) brands 5600 are. Id just like to stress that the 5600 is a much better value card.

While even the FX5200 will hand the GF4 4600 its ass back at DX9 games, it considerably slower for DX8 (and below) stuff. The 5600 is a good all round performer however.


Matt

eyerer

i agree with matt on the 5200, i believe this card it too slow to use the DX9 features it offers


retro, i would prefer a processor upgrade, it won't make your games perfect, but you gain an allround performance increase, not just for games
processors are pretty cheap too

BraveSirAndrew

If you haven't bought your stuff yet, I would suggest checking whether your motherboard supports DDR-333, which with a 1.8ghz processor in it, I'm assuming it does. Dump your old 266 stuff, and buy a 512mb chip for only 79 quid from komplett. Along with the graphics card, this really will make all the difference. DDR-333 is called PC2700, just in case you see it anywhere, and are confused.

TheDuke

BraveSirAndrew - thanks but unfortunately the motherboard will only support a max of DDR-266MHz.

Matt Sims - I actually meant the FX 5600... was a typo.

I will be putting the AGP 8x into an AGP 4x slot - does this significantly reduce the performance of the card - not that I'd have the cash to do anything about it - just to know.

The Duke : ))

Matt Simis

AGP8x is nice, but no human would notice a difference. Its really there as a level of future proofing. In about 8-12months AGP is going by by and PCI-X gfx will be in its place anyhow.


Most 266FSB motherboards support DDR 333(and 400 etc) memory btw.



Matt

TheDuke

I rang DELL and they checked the spec which told them a max of DDR 266MHz - should I ask them for the motherboard type and version?

Also, thanks for the update on AGP 8x - the DELL technician was all concerned about it not running a full performance

btw. what is PCI-X?

The Duke : ))

Matt Simis

Dell arent going to be too helpful for questions like that. I imagine they would prefer to sell you a new PC to go with your new RAM.

I can only tell you from experience that DDR333 should work fine on your board. Only once have I seen it not work and that was on a Dual CPU AMD motherboard , which are known to be picky about ram.

PCI-X is one of several competing I/O technologies appearing now and over the next year, although in terms of graphics it would be more correct to say PCI Express will replace AGP in the near future.



Matt

BraveSirAndrew

Even if you're board doesn't support ddr 333, it should still work fine, it'll just run at the slower speed (not positive though, someone correct me if I'm wrong) and you'd be future proofing yourself, even if only for a while. And 512mb for 80 quid's not bad.

Greenbean

I've 1 gig (2 * 512megs) of 2700 (333) ram in this pc even though its only 2100 grade (266) slots. Bought it from crucial. Works great - though the delivery was the worst I've ever seen - one of the ram sticks was bent at about a 20 degree angle.

Recommend you wait on the graphics card until around about september, think ati are releasing a new card then - it should hopefully push down prices of the current graphics cards a bit. I recommend a dx9 card at least - preferably one of the ati's. No-one in their right mind is going to release a game that doesn't run on a gf3 (dx8) level card, but you will get plenty of graphical gee-wiz effects if you push for a dx9 card. After the likes of doom3, deus ex and halflife2 I think those dx8 cards will age very quickly, and even the early dx9 cards will look a bit crappy. Sure this happens all the time, but I think it will accelerate a bit more than usual over the next christmas period (due to said games). Eg, doom3 is going to really push your new gaming rig to the limits if you try for the highest settings.

Firefox

I work for Dell and your setup sounds the same as my own (1.8Ghz 256MB Geforce 2 MX) Dimension 4400 which unfortunely does not support DDR333Mhz memory.

Matt Simis

Its the definition of "support" that is the cause of confusion. I imagine these systems probably run the 845D chipset, which lacks offical support for 333. What we are saying should work is installing faster ram and letting the board run it as fast as it officially supports. Have you tried installing DDR333 yourself or are you just reading from the specs?



Matt