hit your kids

blahblah

im 23 and i dont have children but....

i feel it would be no harm for kids to get the odd kick up the arse now and then.....

this is based on the other day when some little snot nosed punk of a kid abused me verbally,

it didnt bother me but i was just thinking that back in my day i would never have the cheek to talk to someone of my current age and size (im over 6 foot) in that way,

if i did i would expect at least to be picked up and swung round like a yo yo and/or thrown into a bin or something,

nowadays kids know they cant be touched, words dont mean much to them so if they were used to a kick up the arse say, then they would have the fear in them not to mess with others,

im not condoning a beating of any kind but some discipline installed sensibly,

if a parent goes too far hitting their child then it is the personal problem of that parent and they should be punished but....................for most normal people, maybe they should have the right to do as they feel best for their offspring...


any thoughts???


whatever you think, im not old fashioned

commuterised

yeah I understand where you're coming from.
It does appear to me that there is no foolproof way to discipline kids these days. Any method that worked on us has them threatening to call Chilldline...

I don't have kids yet but I am afraid about how they will turn out. I have friends with children and nieces and nephews and find the whole discipline thing scares me.

I would never have raised a hand to either of my parents and never raised my voice, but I feel kids today have no respect for people older than them, there is no fear and no respect.

I was never hit, because the threat of it was enough!

I'd be very interested to hear how people with children in todays society deal with discipline. I'm afraid of raising little knackers...

blahblah

exactly,

its the fear that disciplined me and made me respect elders,

its lost today,

hopefully my kids will just be born angels......i dont want to go grey

b3t4

I dont have kids but do have some views with regard this so I hope people dont mind me giving my opinion.

Discipline should not be about fear but about respect.

My mother would hit me on occassions when she felt it was appropiate, it has left me with little respect for her.

On the other hand my father never rasied his hand to me and I grew an immense amount of respect for him because of it. I respected him therefore I listened to him when he would scold me or such and follow through with his guidance.

To hit someone of your own age and physical stature is frowned upon by many but to hit a person half your size with just under half your understanding can somehow appear to be ok. IMO there is something very wrong with that thinking.

Just my two cense,
A.

blahblah

sorry actually, when i say fear,

i mean respect as in the shame that comes with something,

ie a fear not to do something, for various reasons,

i didnt mean, a shaking kid huddled in a corner or anything,

and im mainly talking what i said in my first post about young kids being cheeky to older people (not their parents) the same kids could be nice as pie at home!!!

maybe its all eminems fault!!!!!!!!!

b3t4

I think people tend to distance the idea that kids are people too.

I find that if I speak to kids on somewhat (being realistic) the same level I would an adult I get a much better response than treating them as if they were beneath me. It's amazing what kids tell you when you really listen to them.

Just think about why you respect maybe a friend or a co-worker or someone else you may admire. Is it because they hit you, I think not. You respect them because of the way in which they treat you, speak to you or because of what they do. The same is true of kids.

Alot of kids today are looking for attention and they are finding that the only way they get any amount of decent attention is by acting up.

Iv dealt with a few cheeky kids too. They mouth off and all that but if you ignore them they tend to shut up and realise that hey that doesn't work.

I got talking to a bunch of kids on a bus in Dublin a few months ago. The conversation turned around to school and wheither they liked it or not. One guy out of the group said "i hate school" and another guy said "I like school". I continued to question the guy who liked school as to what were his favourite subjects and the rest. Telling him that I had liked school (which I did) and that. Then the guy who said he hated school piped up and told me that he liked writing and reading in school. I told him that was great and the rest. All he needed was someone to say that it was ok to like school. Kids just need someone to guide them and alot of kids today dont seem to have that.

Nevyn

raisind your hand foot or what ever to a child in anger is physical abuse.

i dont ever hit my kids.
I did at some stage slap them as part of disaplining them.

That stage is long over with my now 5 yr old but we have to occasionally give the 3 year old a light slap on the hand no harder then the amount of force used to clap my own hands together.

At 3 she is learning bounderies and there is sometime not a lot that can be done to
inforce those.

The 5 year old is now an age of understanding where he can be punished by not being alllowed out to play, or no pc time or no treats for the day.

Yes he yells at us he hates us but we tell him we have to be good parents and sometimes it means having to do things like this when he is bold. but we dotn like it either so he has a choice to change this with how he behaves.

I dont think the likes of those 16 yr old were never slapped I think they were never tought respect. To respect thier parents, others and themselves.

I have seen the same behaviour in 10 yr olds who have no respect for any adults and I would have to have to be thier parents

.

Victor

Originally posted by blahblah
this is based on the other day when some little snot nosed punk of a kid abused me verbally, ..... im over 6 foot

Without wanting to be patronising, do you no tsee the irony in this? Ignore them!

Most kids give verbal abuse to get a rise out of someone, if you ignore them, they give up.

That or march over to them and roar your head off.

blahblah

Originally posted by Victor
Without wanting to be patronising, do you no tsee the irony in this? Ignore them!

i did ignore them, that was my point...........!!!!

FirA_Fascio

sure kids will be rude, but theres one thing you should prevent them from doing: wearing white nike hoodies, white caps and tight jeans

most of the abuse is delivered by kids/teenagers who fall into the category of SCANGERS :ninja:

unless you want ur kids to grow up as a drug addict, keep them away from rap and dance

FirA_Serjio

I dont think I have a solution and I'm only 15, but I know who you are referring to, its basically skangers. I live in Dublin15, northside, and my place isnt that posh and its full of wanna be skangers (der like skangers but they have higher living standards, its what i call them). I know I'm not one of those and I know I dont' abuse or annoy strangers on purpose, in my opinion I'm actually a "good" boy, I dont wanna sound cheesey or anything, but me and my friends (most of them) dont drink (which most of the kids my age do do drink) or smoke, take drugs, or vandalise, well i dont think i vandalise anyway. But me and my friends always get slagged by them, actually most of what they say is crap, like "stall it over here" just to piss you off, and they always go in groups with their mates, and they now you wont say anything back offensive or cheeky coz they will all hop on ye. I guess this is where i do my "vandalism", you know simple stuff, just egg their houses and stupid childish stuff like that, for me and my friends revenge, for them being d1ckheads. We arent nerd looking kids or anything, we are just normal kids, that hate the typical bully.

I think the reason why i didnt fall into the "skanger" category is because or my PC. If i didnt spend my time on dis on alot of nites, i would hang outside with ppl my age and start drinking and eventually doing other stuff and not realise that i slowly became a wannabe skanger. I know this happens coz i have "former-friends" , they had same interests as me and stuff but then they changed. They then hang outside drinking and getting pumped. I actually still have a couple friends that arent that bad.

IMO, The cause for abusing children and vandalists is Boredom. They have nothing to do, its simple, their normal life at home is boring and uninteresting. Think about it, where is the biggest skanger population, you think???? Ballymun? Why? Maybe because there is nothing to do there, like, is there any public facilities? Dont think so?

People are raising their children in boring areas. When you get children, make sure they are occupied, not only sports, thats what all parents think is the way, find out what music they like, and see if they want an instrument, i dont mean to make them spoilt or anything, but children are the next generation, so bring them up good.

mavedic

I don't have kids either, but I don't think violence is necesary to teach kids respect. I was very rarely hit when I was growing up, but I never had any problem respecting other kids or adults because my parents taught me well.

Light slaps or spankings should be considered reasonable though imo as sometimes it just reenforces the ideas you're trying to teach.

As firA says, boredom is another reason why kids get up to no good, they're just looking for a way to entertain themselves and by getting attention or extreme reactions off people thats the way they do that.

If you made sure you knew what your kids were up to, and were interested in what they did I don't think they would get away with a lot of stuff.

LoneGunM@n

I don't have any kids yet either, but @ 27 & in a long term relationship, it's a foregone conclusion that I will be a parent within the next 2/3 years & I have to say that the kids that I have any contact with don't inspire confidence.

As mentioned by most of the previous posters, I'd have died before I gave any lip to an adult when I was a kid. I know kids do silly/stupid things and they do say the cruelest of things, but it is all down to respect.

How can any child who doesn't respect his/her parents be expected to respect any1 else. It's all down to the education of morals by parents.

In respect to discipline, I myself would never hit a child, because I'm a bloke. I don't want any1 to think me chauvanistic, because I'm not. I asked my father why he had never hit me, because I was a little sh1t @ times, but he replied, because he was afraid he would end up hurting me!!

It doesn't take a slap to discipline a child [nor does it take a "I'll fcuking kill ye, ye little b@stard]. A firm word/threat of grounding always did the trick with me & I can't see why that wouldn't work for everyone else!!

It's all about respect.

God I hope this works, because if it doesn't I'll fcuking kill them

Emboss

Originally posted by blahblah
im 23 and i dont have children but....

i feel it would be no harm for kids to get the odd kick up the arse now and then.....

this is based on the other day when some little snot nosed punk of a kid abused me verbally,

it didnt bother me but i was just thinking that back in my day i would never have the cheek to talk to someone of my current age and size (im over 6 foot) in that way,

if i did i would expect at least to be picked up and swung round like a yo yo and/or thrown into a bin or something,

nowadays kids know they cant be touched, words dont mean much to them so if they were used to a kick up the arse say, then they would have the fear in them not to mess with others,

im not condoning a beating of any kind but some discipline installed sensibly,

if a parent goes too far hitting their child then it is the personal problem of that parent and they should be punished but....................for most normal people, maybe they should have the right to do as they feel best for their offspring...


any thoughts???


whatever you think, im not old fashioned

Putting fear into kids is not the way forward as this usually carrys on into later life, lack of confidence low self asteem,
I don't know what age you are but I'm 24 and my brothers 30 and we were considered very 'cheeky' as we spoke our mind if an elder on the road had a problem with the time of night we played football etc etc,

Why should we have held our tongues ? as kids did we not have opinions ? i'm delighted to see kids today have a plenty of balls, it can only be a good thing for the future.

dahamsta

I thought that the odd slap wasn't too bad, since I got the odd slap when I was coming up, but having seen my sister rule her kids /without/ an iron fist, I think that's the best way to go. Her punishment is to put them outside the living room door, something that doesn't sound like a punishment at all, but by god it works.

adam

Piliger

Originally posted by dahamsta
I thought that the odd slap wasn't too bad, since I got the odd slap when I was coming up, but having seen my sister rule her kids /without/ an iron fist, I think that's the best way to go. Her punishment is to put them outside the living room door, something that doesn't sound like a punishment at all, but by god it works.

adam

I don't personally see anything at all wrong with the 'odd' slap on the behind from time to time. It is NOT abuse and calling it such is an insult to victims of real physical abuse and to parents.

However, in bringing up my 11 yo son I have had far far better results from engraining a wish to please as opposed to a fear of retribution.

Fear of retribution produces nothing but negativity in how a child grows in to an adult, their attitude toeard their parents and other adults, and if anyone here claims it had no ill affects on them I would challenge them to really take a close look at their psyche and their own problems (and we all have them !) and then say it again.

When my guy was small I would encounter situations where he misbehaved, let's say, and I had the choice to get seriously angry or take another tack. I smacked him rarely at the start and did a lot of shouting, but then I chose instead to express and display my disappointment, in a quiet and open way. Clear, open and obvious disappointment in him and how he was behaving. I soon found that this was an incredibly powerful influence on him. He developed a very strong sensetivity to how I and my wife felt about him on these ocassions and I found subsequently that this remains effective over time FAR FAR better than the fear of immediate harm or punishment.

Now that's not to say I haven't sent him to his bedroom from time to time - and as I said I have given him the odd slap on the behind. But that reflects more about me and my frustration than him or the likely success of the slap.

But I can say 100% truthfully that it has never had anything but a transitory affect. An hour later and it's forgotten, or it leaves a nasty bitter feeling on his part toward me while not really achieving much at all. And it also tends to lead to an escalation of punishment to get the same affect in my experience.

My strategy of expectation and disappoiuntment has on the other hand continued extremely efectively, without the need for repeated reinforcement or escalation.

My guy is by no means a goodie goodie. On the contrary he is a bundle of action and divilment in the best sense and challenges me at every corner.

I have used the same strategy on neighbours children and other children I have come in to contact with regularly and have found that they respond to it remarkably well, even though they experience no such strategy in their homes.

DeVore

Actually I agree with not calling it abuse, in deference to victims of serious physical abuse, the problem is defining the terms used and the context they are used in.

The term "slap on the backside" is often used and usually denotes a young (3-7 year old) lad... if its a 12 year old girl it can mean something else.

Does any of the "pro" people have a view on how old is too old?

I have to say I agree with the sentiments that the previous poster posted, disappointment expressed can be much more powerful. Most children want their parents to like them if the family is any way functional....

DeV.

Victor

Originally posted by Piliger
I have used the same strategy on neighbours children and other children I have come in to contact with regularly and have found that they respond to it remarkably well, even though they experience no such strategy in their homes.

It's great for sorting out whiners on the bus / in the shop / whatever. They know how to pull the parent's strings, but a stern comment / look from a "stranger" usually shuts them up.

Sangre

I skimmed the end of this thread, but everyone is saying how kids today are so cheeky etc, in my day, blah blah.

Haven't you ever realised that you only notice the cheeky loud-mouthed brats and not the quiet well behaved children?

EvenStar

Haven't you ever realised that you only notice the cheeky loud-mouthed brats and not the quiet well behaved children?

This is true; the thought had never occured to me. But to say that in order for kids to get attention is to be loud-mouthed and whine about everything seems to be a mis-judged assumption.

It's up to the parents today to raise their children to learn how to communicate in positive, new ways. Not being a parent since I'm a young 'un of 15, I don't know how hard it is, but that doesn't mean I can't think about it.

I know the pressure to conform, and that really changed me. In a way, everyone conforms. We conform in our everyday to lives to survives in accordance to the situations that are flung at us. Realize I'm talking about all types of conformity, not just teenager peer pressure. (everyone has a problem with conforming to others, but we all do it subconciously, whether we like it or not)

I had a friend that will remain annonymous that totally changed me. She changed my opinions, my language, and everythign else I thought I was original in. My point is that parents are not to blame for everything, because there are more influences on people's lives than their parents.

The media also projects these images to the kids today.

I could go on. We all know what I'm getting at, right?

You have to take charge and be their role model. Make them see that they can trust people with their emotions and can be whatever they want to be. It's not simple, but really, it will pay off.

I'm not a philosopher; I don't consider myself to be intellectual. I just know that what I lack in my life is someone to model myself after, so I turn to people that are famous. Who else am I supposed to model myself after? I'm still looking for that role model in my life..

.. Make that search easier for your kids.


P.S. It just pisses me off that some people can just have kid after kid and not give a living flip about what they think and who they are. (ie reproducing because they just want to reproduce/ or it was an accident)
A lot of my friends have kids, and it pains me to see what the future for this world is going to be like. My mom knew this girl who got preg at 16, and her daughter got preg at 15 and she kicked her daughter out. ??? Be an example and don't be dumb.

what you do will come back to you

combs

Wasn't it Nietzsche who said "Punishment only benefits the punisher?" He was right.

Children are meant to be what you call "bold." Leave them be. They'll be bland, boring, fat, well-behaved adults soon enough.

Boston

Originally posted by Thaed
raisind your hand foot or what ever to a child in anger is physical abuse..

What if its not in anger? example, my three year old nephew very recently got into the habite of hitting out, weather it was his new play school or the kids he plays with i don't know. But to allow that behaviour to go unchecked is not acceptable.

combs

Originally posted by Boston
What if its not in anger? example, my three year old nephew very recently got into the habite of hitting out, weather it was his new play school or the kids he plays with i don't know. But to allow that behaviour to go unchecked is not acceptable.

A child that starts to hit out is obviously unhappy or a little unhinged. He probably has a problem but it won't be fixed by walloping him.

Nevyn

aged 3 all children do that, my 3 year oldis at it and is trying to kill of most of my cats nine lives.

They hit lash out because the dont know how to express or explain thier feelings.

yes it cant go unchecked but you dotn slove it by hitting them back.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Personally, i have no problem with parents giving their kids a slap as a means of punishment, although only when they are young.It hasnt had a negative affect on me psychologically, it hasn't turned me into a violent person and it certainly hasn't manifested itself as resentment for my parents. It made sense at the time, if i acted the mick i'd get a slap. It wasn't like i was living in fear, it was just a consequence of doing something that i knew i shouldn't do.

I think it is a necassary evil if it is the only way young children will learn that there are consequences to their actions. I know it is complete clíché about how it wasn't like this when i was small but it is true. THe Corporal punishment that was in schools many years ago is certainly wrong, but there is such thing as going too far. Kids should have a certain amount of respect for those in authority, whether it be their parents or their teachers. A slap with the wooden spoon never hurt any kid. (well... ye know what i mean )

Boston

combs: you reply doesn't deserve an answer, last time i walloped someone i broke both his arms, obviously i'm not going to wallop my 3 year old god son, what exactly do you take me for.

Thaed do you not think that you should teach a child that when you hit someone it hurts and isn't nice, He has really only gone this way after his sister (one) was born.

Originally posted by Thaed
aged 3 all children do that, my 3 year oldis at it and is trying to kill of most of my cats nine lives.

They hit lash out because the dont know how to express or explain thier feelings.

yes it cant go unchecked but you dotn slove it by hitting them back.

Nevyn

yes he needs to know that it is wrong and that it hurts.

Sounds like he is suffering from siblingitis
seems to effect lil boys more then girls they think they are the centre of the universe and then there's a baby getting most of the attentition.


if his behaviour is in the extreme maybe his parents should go talk to the local babynurse about sorting out and talking to him about his behaviour.

Alot of kids that grow up to be bullies start out that way with that very issue.

With my lil boy the idea that I am dissapointed and that he has hurt my feelings is thankfully enough that he behaves.

We did have issues with out lil girl biting and it did take me biting her back a lil so that she felt the ouch but we talked about it and it was done in a nonthreathening manner and with lots of hugs.

Boston

I just don't like to see him becoming uncontrolled because hes not in check. it is him being jealous, but thats because he was the centre of attention with my sister in law. Now the new baby is here its difficult for him. I allways had a great relationship with him, never had to be told anything twice never had to raise my voice with him simply because he was well enough behaved (no angel though).

Nevyn

yup souds like it,

have to tried talking to your brotherand sis in law about it.

very hard i knwo cos well people can get touchy about it esp as you dotn have kids so wft would you know

maybe have a word with the kids Grandmothers if they are still about and could help out with a bit of advice to the parents.

if not why not take time to do stuff with the lil tike just you and him.

play big boy games and stuff.

I guess intergrating a new aby into the house can be hard, we planned it carefully from before our lil girl was born and our lil boy new HE was getting a new brother or sister and he got to help mind the baby.

Victor

Originally posted by Thaed
They hit lash out because the dont know how to express or explain thier feelings.

And they think they are the centre of the universe. :)About the siblingitis, were they not given the line "and you can help with bringing up the baby aswell (within reason)" - it empowers a child that otherwise feels disempowered.

DeVore

I'm in a similar situation to Boston (and btw I took you to be in favour of hitting them from your post too, so dont be too rough on combs ).

My sister actually tries to *reason* with my 4 year old niece as to why she shouldnt climb on the back of the couch or on top of towers of things she specifically constructs to climb on.

I just lift her and put her on the ground. Same with her 2 year old brother... he makes a break for the front door and I pick him up by the back of his dungarees (which is hilarious as his legs keep going).

Both of them give me filthy looks and/or break into floods of tears but they get the usual DeVore Sympathy Approach (none). Then I get known as "bad uncle Tom." but curiously they both know better then to try stuff while I'm about!

Speaking to my sister is hopeless... she's as stubborn as her kids sometimes (though I love her dearly). She looks at me and says "I dont know how they grew up so headstrong" ... and I crack up!

DeV.