The eu will bankrupt ireland

kerry cow · 17-01-2017 03:43PM #1

I read George lees report on the huge economic loss to ireland , now with the hard exit coming .
Is there more for ireland to be gained , from the eu been in the eu compared to the losses we are going to endure, to not free trading with the UK .
The UK , USA and putin will trade between themselves .They don't need the eu .trump is right when he talks about the Bullsht of the eu . Kiss good bye to the good days thing are going to get alot worse .thankfully I am not borrowed because ireland is going broke .
It's rubbish to talk of Kenny should tell may this that and the other .like we were once a proud nation the UK will stand on her own two feet and no one will tell her what to do .The UK don't give two ****es about dublin .
People just don't get it . Britain has always in history been in control of its own destiny .It never lost the pound and it's sick to death of the Germans and french.
The yanks don't give a crap about anyone anymore but themselves as shown by trump elections .
And neither does putin as the people would rather starve than deal with the eu .
We are fcuked.

farmerjj · 17-01-2017 04:00PM

Where have you been for the last decade I think we don't need the EU to bankrupt us!!!

pedigree 6 · 17-01-2017 05:36PM

Well we're certainly looking like we're entering interesting times.

I hear people talking about a speech Theresa May made today about pulling out of the eu common market. I didn't hear it myself.

But it's uncertain what's going to happen in this country now.

It atm looks like Russia, the US and Britain will be going in a trade deal together.
Could anyone call that a year ago??

But who knows? A day can be a lifetime in politics.

We're living in interesting times.:p

Muckit · 17-01-2017 05:52PM

If we still got the cheque in the post, would we be better off out of the EU? Discuss

patsy_mccabe · 17-01-2017 06:00PM

No we are not ****ed. No one is going to cut off its nose to spite its face. Free trade is a win win situation for all.
A lot of shadow boxing going on at the moment.

PMU · 17-01-2017 06:01PM

you`re some pessimist,kerry

kerry cow · 17-01-2017 06:05PM

Pmu .Please fill me with all the benifit of the brexit and trump and putin giving the 2 figures to the EU . All the good things that are going to come fill our pockets with cash .

amacca · 17-01-2017 06:10PM

Muckit wrote: »

If we still got the cheque in the post, would we be better off out of the EU? Discuss

Is yes the right answer?

Are there two answers?......the one you say in public and the one you really think in private?

kerry cow · 17-01-2017 06:21PM

farmerjj wrote:

Where have you been for the last decade I think we don't need the EU to bankrupt
.It was the tri ca from the eu that delivered the medicine to the irish people to bail out the banks and repay the Germans . The Germans fail over many years to win the physical war and now they are trying to financial break the Europeans . It's the Germans that created the cap so as the french farmers could grow and in exchange the industries of Germany could flourish .that's how so many Germans have jobs and are the bankers of Europe supporting the rest of us .We are on the Germans dole and our country cannot survive with out its suckle.
UK won't put up with that crap .We are where we are and like I have been saying with a long time but people are so blind on here .I suppose that's why you have people who have vision and those who don't .Some people will like me and more people will tick the comments of the next guy .Every one is entitled to there Option on here .
cosy french and Germans .
I love our Republic but think we should stick to the UK for trading .

pedigree 6 · 17-01-2017 06:50PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-speech-big-f-word-you-to-eu-german-mep-hisher-name-twitter-european-parliament-a7531566.html

It's hard to know what's going to happen Kerry cow.

But I don't think anyone couldn't expect May's speech to be anything less when the EU were looking for cash for Britain to be "allowed" trade with the EU.
This is the opening shot across the bows and may be not what the EU was expecting. I thought I was listening to auld Maggie there for a minute.

kerry cow · 17-01-2017 07:02PM

But you were .
They Would give it to you between the eyes without a blink.
Their present attitude is up yours germany .
You don't tell them what to do .I have worked there many a year and this is what they have wanted for a long time .there's no fear of the UK economy .you got to give it to them , ballsE
Irish policy makers have this European blindness , a disease , cancerous. It will kill us slowly .look we are too afraid to do anything .
The dail is now like a county council .They sit and discuss and distribute the funds that Brussels allocate .end of .
We have a council but not a country any more .the county of ireland .
.

patsy_mccabe · 17-01-2017 07:24PM

PMU wrote: »

you`re some pessimist,kerry

kerry cow · 17-01-2017 07:34PM

I think the farmer should be a business man and not a optimist . As the wives of irish farmers are sick of hearing it will be better next year .

Genghis Cant · 17-01-2017 07:52PM

kerry cow wrote: »

I think the farmer should be a business man and not a optimist . As the wives of irish farmers are sick of hearing it will be better next year .

Probably not that far off the mark. A bit of a realist is no harm either.

kk.man · 17-01-2017 07:53PM

What's more worrisome at this stage is we are about to loose our biggest ally in Europe...no matter what folk think about the British for many years they were our big brother at the top table...Irish Deplomacy since 1922 was based on agreement...it had to be we had no big axe to weld...so no Irish Politician talked down to a foreign head of state...Germany is not an emeny of the world she has her own problems with the rise of Russia and even more so that the UK has left the alliance of the EU which was set up as a stable Union after WW2. However i do believe the Union has itself to blame by going too federal.

Username John · 17-01-2017 08:01PM

kerry cow wrote: »

I think the farmer should be a business man and not a optimist . As the wives of irish farmers are sick of hearing it will be better next year .

Agree with this...

Not sure I agree with your logic of following the uk - it's that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' kinda logic...

Let's say we were to leave - do you think the UK would treat us better, and we'd be sitting at the with the UK, the US and Russia? Can't see that happening...

I think the UK will be minding their own for a while to come, and will have job enough to do in that... they won't give a ****e about little old us, even if we did leave to be friends with em...

I think we're better off where we are... but we are definitely better off holding out for a while, even if you think we should leave the EU... twould be a very foolish thing to do anything now, see how it plays out for the UK first...

Waffletraktor · 17-01-2017 08:23PM

The uk will head towards being the singapore of the west. As blunt as this is, the idea of ireland taking some of the banking or big business is mad as ireland can't offer a desireable lifestyle to the wealthy like the home counties and london can.
Previously it was the royal navies rule of 2 that gave britain the global power to go around drug dealing/thieving natural resources and exploitation of the Empire that gave them the money. Since the 1st world war especially the monies being running out and folk think they can reverse this, (i guess they can magic up a few dozen supercarrier battlegroups:pac:). Interesting times.

Bass Reeves · 17-01-2017 08:55PM

The EU has serious issue it's permanent civil service run the EU without a political counter balance . For years people accepted this but over the last 10-15 years these civil servants have come to accept that what ever they propose is right.

In Ireland at political level we seem to think legislation solves everything and them we have an administrative sector that make this as complicated as possoble. On top of that we have political elite that craves the center ground and are becoming a too politicall y correct.

But those that think that Britian will walk away from the EU without serious economic pain is not being realistic. A Chinese curse is that you may live in interesting times but the counter balance is that the word danger and opportunity are the same word. The UK is in for a fair shock the EU is it's closest market and it exports. While it's imports exports are balanced it imports and exports 50% approx of it's good to the EU.

But the real pain for the UK may come from its multi national sector that may move administration sections to deal with the EU away from London. As well some of Londans financial sector may move away from the UK. Trading with the the USA and Russia's will not replace that. The reality is that it may have to swop markets from it doorstep to ones that are in different time zones and thousands of miles away.

Britian has never been a friend of Irish farmers. It has always had a cheap food policy. It is interesting as well that alot of our issues with live export has come from animal lobby's in the UK. It is also extremely nationalistic about it's food sector. IMO we as a nation are better off sitting right at present and use this opportunity to lessen EU bureaucracy and hope we benefit from the fallout of Brexit.

patsy_mccabe · 17-01-2017 09:13PM

This tells it's own story.

kowtow · 17-01-2017 09:36PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

But the real pain for the UK may come from its multi national sector that may move administration sections to deal with the EU away from London. As well some of Londans financial sector may move away from the UK. Trading with the the USA and Russia's will not replace that. The reality is that it may have to swop markets from it doorstep to ones that are in different time zones and thousands of miles away.

Id have few fears for the City of London. That single square mile has been the largest Forex market in the world since well before the EU, and will likely remain so. It's position in between time zones, and the English Legal system put it miles ahead of any alternative Europe could offer - and besides, Europe will now have no opposition to implementing it's Financial Transaction Tax, a hit on every single trade, and that's hardly going to encourage banks to locate anything other than the rubber stamp department to Dublin or anywhere else.

Anglo Saxon Finance was never at home in the Napoleonic economies of Europe, and like it or not the money world plays by Anglo Saxon rules. Why else would there be more Euros traded in London every day (a Sterling economy) than in the whole Euro zone put together?

The issue for Ireland is that up to now we have been trying to play a Napoleon's game by Nelson's rules, and sooner or later we are likely to be found out and forced to make a real choice.

Bass Reeves · 17-01-2017 10:10PM

There is no doubt that the City of London is a huge financial center. Anglo Saxon rules have a large part to part to play in it. However it is dependent on the free travel of goods and services (money is included in this) in the EU. If it has not unfettered access to the EU banking system then that changes. I think it is unlikely that the EU will allow the UK unfettered access to the EU and allow it to be a sort of tax free zone outside but within the EU.

Take Threasa May 12 point plan free travel for paddy but not for Hans. Well maybe Hans was not the issue but Mareck from Poland or Mustef the Turk. Brexit was really voted in by the old industrial heartlands of the UK. How will May keep these on side if the city of London is the only beneficiary. There is a section of British society that expects that it can recreate the old British empire. That it will have unfettered access to cheap raw material from Canada, NZ and Australia as well as access to US, Russia and the Asian economies and with low tax rates and low wages export into the EU. It's once heavy industries were desimated like ours by cheaper imports.

Take eBay from the UK you can buy a Timberpro chainsaw for approx 150 euro with. Two year warranty. Access to the EU is critical for these small micro companies that trade to the EU. If there is a 10% import tax it wipes them out. The EU is the biggest economy in the world right at the UK doorstep. It will not get unfettered access to it and to the rest of the world.

kowtow · 17-01-2017 11:30PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no doubt that the City of London is a huge financial center. Anglo Saxon rules have a large part to part to play in it. However it is dependent on the free travel of goods and services (money is included in this) in the EU. If it has not unfettered access to the EU banking system then that changes. I think it is unlikely that the EU will allow the UK unfettered access to the EU and allow it to be a sort of tax free zone outside but within the EU.

I don't see it that way at all, Europe is a customer of the City and what the City has for sale can't really be replicated effectively in any current European jurisdiction, for legal and historical reasons but much more because of political climate. It's difficult to imagine Europe falling down on it's promises to implement a Financial Transaction Tax (the ultimate populist measure!) and when it does so it will in effect pour treacle on it's already relatively illiquid markets. As of this morning the ECB balance sheet is about three and a half trillion dollars - a very unhealthy state of affairs if liquid markets and access to capital are economic priorities.

The EU would struggle if it didn't have access to the City of London - but the City is far from dependent on the EU.

Edit: outside the specific case of the City, I agree with you that losing EU markets will hurt parts of the UK, but I'd be optimistic there too. I caught up with my wife's family over Christmas and of two brothers in law in commerce, both of whom export worldwide from the UK, the talk was all of sales in American, Middle Eastern & Far Eastern markets with barely a thought for any negative implications from losing single market access.

barnaman · 17-01-2017 11:47PM

Going to be interesting for us and England

http://www.britishirishchamber.com/value-of-goods-1996-2015/

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/ourrolesandpolicies/ourwork/statevisit2014/Economic-Facts.pdf

"The UK exports more to Ireland than it does to China, India and Brazil combined. And thats the reality there is alot of talk of UK exports tot China etc yet out small population takes more British goods than over half the worlds population"

kowtow · 18-01-2017 12:04AM

barnaman wrote: »

Going to be interesting for us and England

http://www.britishirishchamber.com/value-of-goods-1996-2015/

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/ourrolesandpolicies/ourwork/statevisit2014/Economic-Facts.pdf

"The UK exports more to Ireland than it does to China, India and Brazil combined. And thats the reality there is alot of talk of UK exports tot China etc yet out small population takes more British goods than over half the worlds population"

Indeed it will.

One of the most confusing things about the Brexit debate is the fact that the very long standing quasi-internal trade between the UK & Ireland which is so much of all our everyday lives is lumped in as though it was trade brought about by the EU - both Ireland's figures and England's are distorted by this.

It would be informative, IMO, if both Ireland and England published figures which excluded or separated trade between the two Islands, so we'd all see a bit better where we stand.

Irelands own figures of course are notoriously distorted by MNC transactional effects, which could also usefully be separated.

pedigree 6 · 18-01-2017 12:25AM

I think Kerry cow you're right Ireland is fooked.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-negotiator-talks-french-michel-barnier-negotiation-insists-eu-article-50-conducted-a7373556.html

Qu'est-ce que l'irlande?

And there won't be an Irish person in the room.

the_syco · 18-01-2017 01:36AM

kerry cow wrote: »

Pmu .Please fill me with all the benifit of the brexit

The welsh farmers will lose their eu grants. I assume you do not get any eu grants?

_Brian · 18-01-2017 10:38AM

I think what we're seeing is a lot of posturing, each side taking a tough position to show the home guard that they are strong.

The truth is that both sides are very afraid of what is about to happen. The long complicated negotiations will start with both sides yielding nothing but I've no doubt that in the end a "fudge" will be revealed where both sides can return victorious to their minions claiming to have gotten a good deal.

Farming is way down the priorities in Europe now and I'd expect the US will be straight on with a trade deal including beef imports to to the U.K. This is our biggest threat. Am open border with the six counties is a political token.

laoch na mona · 18-01-2017 10:57AM

with eu environmental rules gone British ag could go towards the american model. Big farms, poor environmental standards, and less farmers

Donegalforever · 23-01-2017 09:29PM

I do not see any advantage in being so pessimistic.

I am a great believer in "not shaking hands with the devil until you meet him"

With regards the UK and USA, things are not likely to be as rosy as they would like others to believe at present. Time will tell.

Knowall Macduff · 24-01-2017 11:00AM

I wasn't very old when Ireland joined the EU but I do remember the depressed prices for cattle and milk because Britain was our only customer and Britain being an industrial country cheap food was more important than farmers, they haven't changed, I can't see how anyone would think they would be better off going back to that.

on the river · 24-01-2017 11:10AM

Europe is morally bankrupt.

The eu will bankrupt ireland

Comments